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Injustice 2 is a Problematic Game

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HellblazerHawkman

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
Will say, I am a little pissed about the premiere skins. I bought the $100 edition and I need to fork over even more money to get all of the skins? I've heard that you can get source crystals from multiverse events and daily challenges, but when I press the issue I never get some kind of proof. I've been sitting at 14700 crystals after like 30 hours of gameplay, haven't seen someone who has gotten more than that without spending cash.

Gameplay-wise, just remember that it is only a game. If shit starts to get you down, just put the game down for a while. The only proper time to get upset at this game is if all of the characters get announced and Constantine is not one of them.
 
C

chr1sam

Noob
I think that you have to give NRS some slack on the balance of this game. It just came out.
Even tekken which is historically well balanced had balance problems when it first released in Japan.

Every game is going to have balance problems when its first released but I honeslty think the balance of this game (atleast in terms of the amount of characters that have the potential to be competitive) is pretty good.

In fact I can only think of a a few (scarecrow, swamp thing, grodd) who I don't see the potential of doing well in tournament.

Outside of balance however there are some major gripes I have with the game. Like...

Why aren't ranked matches best of 3?
- If you want to run sets to have to player match and if the other guy doesn't want to turn gear off it sucks
Why are moves tied to gear?
- So many characters would be better or at least more interesting if they had access to extra special moves
 
Gooberking

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I don't know about the micro trans thing in this case. I'm generally in the camp of it's just something I don't want to see ever, but usually you are deliberately made to feel starved out of something to urge additional spending. I just don't have that feeling at this point. For all that people say about NRS, one thing that is hard to say is that they don't give us a lot of content. Acting like we are being short handed on content seems to, I don't know, lack perspective.

I think some people want to say they have 100% even when it means very little. 80% of a lot may be far more than 100% of a little, and we should have some awareness of the whole before demanding 100% and thinking we are being short changed. I'm saying this knowing I really don't know what all is out there or what that whole is. I just know I have more than I know what to do with, more than I ever have. That my per dollar investment may be higher than for anything I've bought before. I'm not eager to get upset over even more existing yet.

I do have some other thoughts on the implications of gear that move in more than one direction. I do think it has implications for a number of things.

To layer gear system on top of the competitive base means gear will always have more, but it also means there will always be situations where you end up wanting something more. Sometimes because you see it and can't have it, and very realistically because it would be good for the base character, but it did get snapped off for gear so that the character had ways to grow with gear. In this case a character suffers from both wanting something it doesn't need and potentially not being given something it should have had.

It also means changes at the base character (competitive base ) can't just be made to fix found issues because everything else is on top of them. WoWo is a good example in that nobody wants random trait but you cant take away the random aspect without figuring out what to do with all the gear moves people are using to do just that. It unlikely they would change a trait anyway, but it makes it harder if they wanted to, and it also begs the question as to if they made it random so they could create the gear moves.

I also suspect the game is problematic for the "enthusiast" crowd. Nobody really looks at players in grades but it's not just pro's and casuals. You have some layers in the middle. Enthusiasts would be the guys that are not and never could be Jimi Hendrix, but play guitar everyday because it's fun and maybe they believe they have more potential than they really do. They are also some of the people pro's need to beat to become pros, help fill seats, and contribute to stream numbers. From reading a lot of the complaints and rebuttals on how the game plays, there appears to be an aspect or two to it where the answer generally boils down to "play a pro level" or "go play casuals with gear." I feel like this game is divisive in a way that forces you to play in one of two camps with a band of players wanting to play gearless but not really being able to either enjoy that mode or be accepted by that camp. I don't actually know if that a good or bad thing or just a thing.

I basically like the game as it is, but I do wonder if there is so much turmoil and turnoffs involved that it ends up being short lived. (I guess I just dont know how to make short posts)
 
RexxyC

RexxyC

what's done is done
HylianHate said:
The OP literally asked for it. He said if you disagree then address the points he talked about and provide reasoning for why you disagree which the majority of us did. Disagreement doesn't automatically make someone an apologist.



This statement alone changes the intention of the thread from constructive to bitching. If you don't want criticism don't post on a public forum.
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Did i fucking say it does? If you can't see this jank ass higher up people on this site apologizing for a messy ass game, that's on you.
 
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Alarm bells started ringing when they wouldn't respond to Ranked matches being 2/3 and the whole ranked / player match system.

They have been extremely lazy in regards to revamping and improving on old systems for the people that want to play other real people. Gear being on by default is a tragedy; I haven't played an NRS game less than this because ranked for me, and I know others, just isn't fun.

In terms of balance, it can always be corrected and fixed. I feel like some of the cast have access to too many tools and others have a limited (albeit gear would fix that) tool-sets. The Injustice 1 characters (not the revamped ones) are complete in a way and have years in terms of development on the new cast members. Batman has so many tools and options at his disposal it is hard to argue that he isn't fully developed.

The game is brilliant though. If you remove certain members of the cast from the character select screen and play against each other it feels fantastic. So there is hope.
 
RexxyC

RexxyC

what's done is done
HellblazerHawkman said:
Will say, I am a little pissed about the premiere skins. I bought the $100 edition and I need to fork over even more money to get all of the skins? I've heard that you can get source crystals from multiverse events and daily challenges, but when I press the issue I never get some kind of proof. I've been sitting at 14700 crystals after like 30 hours of gameplay, haven't seen someone who has gotten more than that without spending cash.

Gameplay-wise, just remember that it is only a game. If shit starts to get you down, just put the game down for a while. The only proper time to get upset at this game is if all of the characters get announced and Constantine is not one of them.
Click to expand...
I would be upset anyway, and I am. I bought the Ultimate Edition and frankly i'm seriously fucking pissed that they want me to put more down to buy premiere skins.

I want Constantine too, but I get the sinking feeling that the NRS team would much rather shovel Enchantress and more MK characters into the game rather than take more requests.

Zionix said:
Alarm bells started ringing when they wouldn't respond to Ranked matches being 2/3 and the whole ranked / player match system.

They have been extremely lazy in regards to revamping and improving on old systems for the people that want to play other real people. Gear being on by default is a tragedy; I haven't played an NRS game less than this because ranked for me, and I know others, just isn't fun.

In terms of balance, it can always be corrected and fixed. I feel like some of the cast have access to too many tools and others have a limited (albeit gear would fix that) tool-sets. The Injustice 1 characters (not the revamped ones) are complete in a way and have years in terms of development on the new cast members. Batman has so many tools and options at his disposal it is hard to argue that he isn't fully developed.

The game is brilliant though. If you remove certain members of the cast from the character select screen and play against each other it feels fantastic. So there is hope.
Click to expand...
Ranked in this game is a massive pile of shit. Why aren't there tiers, why isn't it a set on 3 instead of 1 fucking match? Who the fuck thought THAT was a good idea? How can you learn matchups like that?

I have hope they can balance this game, but there's more underlying issues that i'm concerned with.
 
RoboCop

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Good morning TYM. I just read through all 4 pages of comments, and I'm genuinely impressed. Many of you who disagree with me actually took the time to address specific points I made, and in some cases even made me think twice about a few of my points. A huge thanks to those of who you disagreed but kept things civil and to the point. I'll try to address as many of the questions and issues brought up as possible:
  1. Why make a post like this?
    • Because this is a forum dedicated to talking about the game. This is literally the point of TYM. Feel free to post your own thread talking about the game. It's totally free, and you'll only get flamed a little, as long as you don't bring up anything related to buffs, nerfs, matchups, or complain about any aspect of the game. (Note: If you decide to post anything remotely negative, go ahead and put ATL Jones on mute and you'll have a much more pleasant experience.)
  2. What 8/2 MU's
    • This is the part I wish I had worded differently, but it was late, I was exhausted, and now it's out there. I do believe there are some incredibly lopsided matchups in this game (Cheetah vs Batman, Cold vs Zoning, etc), but for me the bigger issue is with the tools they decided to give different characters. From my own experience, I'd say WoWo and Cold are the best examples of characters whose tools are just totally outclassed in this game. In any other game they could be great characters, but in Injustice 2, an all-high string isn't cutting it.
    • Where the MU numbers start to come into play are when you start comparing the tools of the "lacking" characters with the tools of the top 5 or 6. A matchup is going to be 7/3 or worse, when played at the absolute highest level, if one character does everything the other character does, but better. I'm sick of bringing up Batman, but he's the most egregious example of a character that simply shines too brightly at too many aspects of the game. Aquaman is another good example, able to easily break 200 damage from full-screen while remaining + on all of his 6-frame mids that lead to TR chip while his trait keeps him totally safe. Don't jump or you're eating a 7-frame d2 into 300+ damage. If your character can't out-zone Aquaman and can't compete up close, then yes, at the highest possible level, you're looking at 7/3-8/2 territory.
  3. But gear doesn't cost money
    • That is absolutely correct. Like any free-to-play game, it is absolutely possible to get most of what you need out of the gear system without spending a dime. Where the money-grubbing comes into play is with anything dealing with Source Crystals. I won't get too into this because it's just one of those areas where you either agree or you don't, and it's just totally a matter of opinion. I think everything involving Source Crystals is too expensive for what you're getting, especially if you bought the $100 edition.
    • One aspect of the cash-grab mentality that I know many people are fed up with is showing off gear-only moves in character trailers as a way to build hype and sell DLC, only for us to find out later that the character we just bought doesn't actually have the moves that were advertised. NRS could easily post information about gear moves and be transparent, and I hope that they decide to do so. As it stands, we have to take every trailer with a huge grain of salt and hope the character plays anything like what we're being shown. That feels dishonest.
    • I really didn't have time to get into all of my gripes with the gear system, which involve the shitty interface, tedious process of opening boxes, inventory management, etc.
    • My biggest issue with the gear system is that NRS wasted time on it instead of fixing things like the overall balance and input bug.
    • I also need to update the section on Gear moves, because it is not worded well. It does sound like I'm saying gear moves themselves are the cash grab, but that's not what I mean. I'm trying to say that gear moves are catering to the casual players, who are the ones who will be dropping the most money on optional purchases. That, in itself, is not bad, but they're doing it at the expense of character viability. They are releasing gimped characters who require gear moves to be viable. That is the problem. Sorry for not making that clearer.
  4. But what about X move?
    • No, I'm not saying all gear moves should have been default character moves. But there are many that should have been. Fate shouldn't have an unavoidable full-screen move that removes the opponent's ability to use meter, but WoWo should definitely be able to choose which trait to activate.
  5. But other NRS games were busted at launch!
    • Great. And Hitler was a bad person; that doesn't excuse all other bad people because they're not as bad as Hitler. That's called "setting the bar too low". I'm not here to talk about MK9, I1, or MKX; I'm here to talk about Injustice 2, a game that must be judged on its own flaws and merits. How busted previous NRS games were doesn't concern me.
    • That said, I do hope NRS addresses these issues and brings us a fun, balanced, functional experience.
  6. Why even play the game then?
    • I like fighting games and I like comic book characters. I want the game to be good, and I imagine NRS is going to address most of these issues ("hope" might be a better word).
    • Just because I think the game is a broken piece of shit right now does not mean I can't hold hope for the future.
  7. Why so hostile?
    • Again, it was late, I was exhausted, and I had just come off a 6-hour-or-so playing session in which I managed to experience just about every negative thing the game had to offer. I should have been more diplomatic, you're absolutely correct, but I was not in a positive or constructive state of mind. I cleaned up the OP a bit to make it less hostile.
    • And before anyone helpfully chimes in that the above statement is just code for "he got his ass kicked by Batman and wanted to cry on the forums", know that wasn't the case. I did quite well against @Scott The Scot's amazing Batman (with both of us experiencing everything the input bug had to offer), took out a great Firestorm with my Captain Cold, and had a fun back-and-forth set with an amazing Robin player against my Cheetah.
  8. Waaaaah. You're just a crybaby!
    1. Thanks for your helpful response and for promoting active discussion on the site, @CrimsonShadow. With mods like you, I can't imagine why people are fleeing TYM en masse to discuss things on private Discord servers. I thought TYM was a forum for discussing the game, but you're the mod, so I guess I'll defer to your judgement. I expect that kind of response from many of the less-respected TYM members, but I'm genuinely disappointed to see it coming from you.
Phew, I believe that covers just about everything that was brought up. Again, thanks for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.
 
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RoboCop

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I also need to update the section on Gear moves, because it is not worded well. It does sound like I'm saying gear moves themselves are the cash grab, but that's not what I mean. I'm trying to say that gear moves are catering to the casual players, who are the ones who will be dropping the most money on optional purchases. That, in itself, is not bad, but they're doing it at the expense of character viability. They are releasing gimped characters who require gear moves to be viable. That is the problem. Sorry for not making that clearer.
 
H

HylianHate

Noob
karaokelove said:
Good morning TYM. I just read through all 4 pages of comments, and I'm genuinely impressed. Many of you who disagree with me actually took the time to address specific points I made, and in some cases even made me think twice about a few of my points. A huge thanks to those of who you disagreed but kept things civil and to the point. I'll try to address as many of the questions and issues brought up as possible:
  1. Why make a post like this?
    • Because this is a forum dedicated to talking about the game. This is literally the point of TYM. Feel free to post your own thread talking about the game. It's totally free, and you'll only get flamed a little, as long as you don't bring up anything related to buffs, nerfs, matchups, or complain about any aspect of the game. (Note: If you decide to post anything remotely negative, go ahead and put ATL Jones on mute and you'll have a much more pleasant experience.)
  2. What 8/2 MU's
    • This is the part I wish I had worded differently, but it was late, I was exhausted, and now it's out there. I do believe there are some incredibly lopsided matchups in this game (Cheetah vs Batman, Cold vs Zoning, etc), but for me the bigger issue is with the tools they decided to give different characters. From my own experience, I'd say WoWo and Cold are the best examples of characters whose tools are just totally outclassed in this game. In any other game they could be great characters, but in Injustice 2, an all-high string isn't cutting it.
    • Where the MU numbers start to come into play are when you start comparing the tools of the "lacking" characters with the tools of the top 5 or 6. A matchup is going to be 7/3 or worse, when played at the absolute highest level, if one character does everything the other character does, but better. I'm sick of bringing up Batman, but he's the most egregious example of a character that simply shines too brightly at too many aspects of the game. Aquaman is another good example, able to easily break 200 damage from full-screen while remaining + on all of his 6-frame mids that lead to TR chip while his trait keeps him totally safe. Don't jump or you're eating a 7-frame d2 into 300+ damage. If your character can't out-zone Aquaman and can't compete up close, then yes, at the highest possible level, you're looking at 7/3-8/2 territory.
  3. But gear doesn't cost money
    • That is absolutely correct. Like any free-to-play game, it is absolutely possible to get most of what you need out of the gear system without spending a dime. Where the money-grubbing comes into play is with anything dealing with Source Crystals. I won't get too into this because it's just one of those areas where you either agree or you don't, and it's just totally a matter of opinion. I think everything involving Source Crystals is too expensive for what you're getting, especially if you bought the $100 edition.
    • One aspect of the cash-grab mentality that I know many people are fed up with is showing off gear-only moves in character trailers as a way to build hype and sell DLC, only for us to find out later that the character we just bought doesn't actually have the moves that were advertised. NRS could easily post information about gear moves and be transparent, and I hope that they decide to do so. As it stands, we have to take every trailer with a huge grain of salt and hope the character plays anything like what we're being shown. That feels dishonest.
    • I really didn't have time to get into all of my gripes with the gear system, which involve the shitty interface, tedious process of opening boxes, inventory management, etc.
    • My biggest issue with the gear system is that NRS wasted time on it instead of fixing things like the overall balance and input bug.
  4. But what about X move?
    • No, I'm not saying all gear moves should have been default character moves. But there are many that should have been. Fate shouldn't have an unavoidable full-screen move that removes the opponent's ability to use meter, but WoWo should definitely be able to choose which trait to activate.
  5. But other NRS games were busted at launch!
    • Great. And Hitler was a bad person; that doesn't excuse all other bad people because they're not as bad as Hitler. That's called "setting the bar too low". I'm not here to talk about MK9, I1, or MKX; I'm here to talk about Injustice 2, a game that must be judged on its own flaws and merits. How busted previous NRS games were doesn't concern me.
    • That said, I do hope NRS addresses these issues and brings us a fun, balanced, functional experience.
  6. Why even play the game then?
    • I like fighting games and I like comic book characters. I want the game to be good, and I imagine NRS is going to address most of these issues ("hope" might be a better word).
    • Just because I think the game is a broken piece of shit right now does not mean I can't hold hope for the future.
  7. Why so hostile?
    • Again, it was late, I was exhausted, and I had just come off a 6-hour-or-so playing session in which I managed to experience just about every negative thing the game had to offer. I should have been more diplomatic, you're absolutely correct, but I was not in a positive or constructive state of mind. I cleaned up the OP a bit to make it less hostile.
    • And before anyone helpfully chimes in that the above statement is just code for "he got his ass kicked by Batman and wanted to cry on the forums", know that wasn't the case. I did quite well against @Scott The Scot's amazing Batman (with both of us experiencing everything the input bug had to offer), took out a great Firestorm with my Captain Cold, and had a fun back-and-forth set with an amazing Robin player against my Cheetah.
  8. Waaaaah. You're just a crybaby!
    1. Thanks for your helpful response and for promoting active discussion on the site, @CrimsonShadow. With mods like you, I can't imagine why people are fleeing TYM en masse to discuss things on private Discord servers. I thought TYM was a forum for discussing the game, but you're the mod, so I guess I'll defer to your judgement. I expect that kind of response from many of the less-respected TYM members, but I'm genuinely disappointed to see it coming from you.
Phew, I believe that covers just about everything that was brought up. Again, thanks for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.
Click to expand...

Well said. Glad to see you interpreted most replies as constructive and appreciate the clarification on your points.
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Roy Arkon said:
@DDutchguy Yes Reptile was indeed a good character from the start, people just wanted to compain, like @dribirut just did, but the Variation system is one of the best things in MKX and they still are. There are a few of them that just you can't just pick for high level player, but the system as whole works just fine.

However, @dribirut, the whole point of the Gear only moves is that they're not meant for competitive play, just like @DDutchguy said. You need to give the game more time, just you should've game MKX more time and then you would've realize that Reptile was good even at the very beginning.
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You're either dumb or just not knowledgable about fighting games if you think reptile was good at the beginning of the game.

I love how people are so afraid of calling a character a shitter at the beginning of games because it's frowned upon. There has to be shit characters in every game and yes even in the beginning
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
i dont have an opinion because it wasnt my char, but cossner was top reptile in mk9 and mkx, and he said reptile was fine on release and that you needed to stop whining. what do you say to that
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
dribirut said:
What are you talking about. You can't use abilities in competitive mode which is my point though
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My point is that they don't know how to use them in both competition modes. Only we, the pros, know how to use them. The scrubs never use them in their sets, anyways. That's my point there.

Some of those abilities are useful for the competition. The rest shall go to the scrubs.
 
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