Now that the dust has settled, can we agree...

[DubiousShenron]

His recovery on the fireball gives you some breathing room and you have to aim the floor laser

I'm done

 

[Baconlord]

firestorm zoning is a bill

 

[Basic Stupidity]

question for everyone who complains about zoning. other then deadshot who is actually zoning you out for the whole game?

batman

 

[G11OST]

I know certain picks do have very hard times getting in, I rather them "adjust" their kits (not the zoners) to assist in getting in instead of nerfing zoners across the board. I have a feeling that's why your getting so much backlash OP, in general you don't want to break something to fix something.

#buff don't nerf

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

I know certain picks do have very hard times getting in, I rather them "adjust" their kits (not the zoners) to assist in getting in instead of nerfing zoners across the board. I have a feeling that's why your getting so much backlash OP, in general you don't want to break something to fix something.

#buff don't nerf

That was my 3rd suggestion.

Don't even get my started though how half the projectiles have these janky angles and heights that can't be jumped over.

 

[PetulantWaste]

There are plenty of times where you'll need to counter pick zoners but hardly ANY times where you'll need to counter pick a rushdown character. That's what feels unbalanced to me.

In addition, this game is much slower than MKX and there is a lot of spacing involved that really wasn't there in MKX. I'm the first to admit that MKX was pretty much just about getting your opponent in a situation where you can 50/50 or chip damage them to death. There wasn't really any fullscreen game at all.

This game has a robust fullscreen game and the teleports are not NEARLY as ubiquitous

Character with teleports are: Scarecrow, Darkseid, and Supergirl and that's it.
Scarecrow's teleport sucks.
Supergirl's is useful
Darkseid's is good but he's a zoner/set-up character

MKX had Kung Lao, Ermac, Kenshi, Triborg, Raiden, Mileena, Scorpion, Shinnok, Quan Chi, Goro (a vertical teleport but a teleport none the less) A full 3rd of the cast had a get in for free move that's not counting the characters that had armored moves that traveled almost full screen like Lui Kang, Johnny Cage, Kitana, Reptile, Kung Jin.

MKX also had run which is far more versatile than mb roll.

Running in MKX was basically free. Now, to get in close you have to spend a bar of meter which you need to do combos and air escapes and push blocks etc.

On top of that MB moves in MKX had armor that could eat through projectiles.

This game did away with almost all of that shit. I'm not saying they should play the same but coming from MKX to this feels so weird and at times unfun. I don't really like zoning very much sometimes I do it because I KNOW it's effective and that I can do it and my opponent can't.

I feel like because this game is back to block they were a lot more sparing on the teleports.

Even characters that are supposed to have anti-zoning tools like Gorilla Grodd can still struggle against zoners. Which blows my mind because he has a move that literally makes him invulnerable to projectiles.

 

[Baconlord]

who is zoning you out please tell me. because I swear to god if someone says they're being zoned out by someone like firestorm I'm gonna give up on humanity

 

[HomeLee1121]

@PLAYING TO WIN @General M2Dave

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

who is zoning you out please tell me. because I swear to god if someone says they're being zoned out by someone like firestorm I'm gonna give up on humanity

We've established Firestorm is legit already don't worry lol

Batman
Adam
Aquaman
Deadshot

I hesitate to call some of these guys zoners but that's just how stacked their kits are. You either need to get everyone else up to speed (Super Injustice 2 Turbo when?) or tone this shit down

 

[Baconlord]

We've established Firestorm is legit already don't worry lol

Batman
Adam
Aquaman
Deadshot

I hesitate to call some of these guys zoners but that's just how stacked their kits are. You either need to get everyone else up to speed (Super Injustice 2 Turbo when?) or tone this shit down

there is a difference between zoning and defensive play. aquaman and adam are not zoning anyone out lol

 

[ABACABB]

Fun fact - when 50/50s are busted or rushdown its ok ... but finally we get one game where zoning is good ( not busted just good) and suddenly every scrub complains .

zoning is fine, git gud or go play tekken

 

[ATL Jones Bro3]

I see, reading comprehension is hard to come by on TYM. I'll break it down for you.




As in. Zoning someone to death is actually EASY compared to NOT being zoned to death. This is due to several game systems not working as intended. If they were to fix these systems then dealing with zoning with be a challenge instead of a war of attrition.

Mixing people to death is easy compared to not being mixed to death.

 

[alkipot]

I'm sorry, but if anyone compares Guile/Morrigan/SF in general zoning to Injustice, you're probably a half-wit that wears a helmet to eat cereal.

In SF:

- projectiles clash
- you build meter off almost anything including blocking projectiles
- full screen is not nearly the size in Injustice full screen
- no safe dps aside Ken v trigger, sf4 fadcs
- projectiles are nowhere near as fast with minimal recovery frames
- Guile cannot mess up at all if he's just throwing booms

Morrigan:
- takes execution
-requires a whole other character to be effective with zoning (Dr. Doom missile assist)

I understand if all you guys play are NRS fighters, but please don't speak on others if you don't know a thing about them and just stream monster view them.

That said, the game is fun, but the game is pretty much a zoners paradise.

 

[Marlow]

We've established Firestorm is legit already don't worry lol

Batman
Adam
Aquaman
Deadshot

I hesitate to call some of these guys zoners but that's just how stacked their kits are. You either need to get everyone else up to speed (Super Injustice 2 Turbo when?) or tone this shit down

Locking people out full screen isn't how those characters win though. Batman is more about pressure/movement with the bats. Adam and Aquaman are more about defensive play and punishing oppents or relying on excellent normals, not full screen projectiles. Deadshot is the only one of those characters who really excels at full screen keep out game, but even then it's the rest of his tool kit which makes him so strong, not the full screen zoning part.

 

[TheDylbot]

there is a difference between zoning and defensive play. aquaman and adam are not zoning anyone out lol

FTD spam is defensive? :/ feels like he outzones dr. Fate to me in that MU but anyways...

Moving on, I think it's more of a character toolkit issue. I was a massive fan of Knicks' goro in mkx, and he is the reason I learned Swamp thing, but the fact knicks drops a character because of its inability to counter zoning and open people up is an issue.

Been playing a fair bit of fate and I can confidently say his zoning is fine, but only against certain characters. Others (swampy, grodd, scarecrow, etc) get bodied hard, with minimal effort on my part. His up close game sucks baaad, and characters like batman blow him up for sure imo.

I mean, watch a couple of RHS with coach steve's grodd and even though his grodd is hype AF, it still gets drowned by zoning ... alot. He is a complicated character, but gets beat by keep away 8/10 times by sometimes mediocre zoning.

Zoning is ok tbh, but MB roll needs some tweaks, and rushdown characters with no answers for hard zoning need to be looked at

 

[Shaka]

Can we close this thread pls?

no wonder nobody respects us.

 

[alkipot]

If Injustice zoning required the same effort and had the same risks as SF, I highly doubt these threads would even exist.

 

[Baconlord]

Most of the "zoning" in this game is really only to just sit on a life lead or build a little meter. The only character I can think of that can actually kill you with zoning is deadshot. What makes the top tiers good is not their zoning it's their dominant midrange presence. Black Adam is not keeping you out all day with lightning, he's blowing you up with f1 for half life. Aquaman is not zoning you out with from the deep, he's doing hella chip and making you over commit with his walk back.

 

[Baconlord]

FTD spam is defensive? :/ feels like he outzones dr. Fate to me in that MU but anyways...

Moving on, I think it's more of a character toolkit issue. I was a massive fan of Knicks' goro in mkx, and he is the reason I learned Swamp thing, but the fact knicks drops a character because of its inability to counter zoning and open people up is an issue.

Been playing a fair bit of fate and I can confidently say his zoning is fine, but only against certain characters. Others (swampy, grodd, scarecrow, etc) get bodied hard, with minimal effort on my part. His up close game sucks baaad, and characters like batman blow him up for sure imo.

I mean, watch a couple of RHS with coach steve's grodd and even though his grodd is hype AF, it still gets drowned by zoning ... alot. He is a complicated character, but gets beat by keep away 8/10 times by sometimes mediocre zoning.

Zoning is ok tbh, but MB roll needs some tweaks, and rushdown characters with no answers for hard zoning need to be looked at

If you can't get in on aquaman from full screen I don't know what to tell you. Weather or not aquaman is to good and has a ton of winning matchups is a different issue but in terms of pure zoning he's not keeping you out the whole game

 

[pfiidud3]

Disagree with me or not, I raised some very good points

 

[juicepouch]

Why is it at the first sign of zoning not being awful we have to have all of these threads about how oppressive it is to be forced to block and dash your way in

 

[TheDylbot]

If you can't get in on aquaman from full screen I don't know what to tell you. Weather or not aquaman is to good and has a ton of winning matchups is a different issue but in terms of pure zoning he's not keeping you out the whole game

Never said I couldn't, even swamp thing can punish FTD spam from full screen. I was stating that many aquaman use FTD as a full screen pressure tool, not a defensive mechanic, and that FTD can beat hard zoning, at least in my experience but that might just be me

 

[Baconlord]

Never said I couldn't, even swamp thing can punish FTD spam from full screen. I was stating that many aquaman use FTD as a full screen pressure tool, not a defensive mechanic, and that FTD can beat hard zoning, at least in my experience but that might just be me

From the deep is really just meant to check your movement not keep you out. It's really good against zoners tho but the character as a whole is a defensive character

 

[SHAOLIN]

Y'all are all some dumb fucks for getting troll so hard by this dude what da fuck!

I'm piss! Look at this dude's name!

 

[JerzeyReign]

I use Robin so I understand the reasoning for this thread. Not sure if OP is a Robin player, because I'm one of those people who comments without reading 4 pages, but I'll assume so. Walking in and ducking only gets you so far because some of these zoners actually have footsie tools that challenge his b2.

Not gonna get too worked up about it, I'll just move to Red Hood when he drops. I do believe switching out Robin's birdarang for his "casual gear" birdrang would fix him. 50f start up on this current one makes it useless vs 95% of the cast. Can't use it at a distance. Can't use it up close. Well, you can if your opponent has slow reactions to it but most people are just poking the gap.

But I don't want to make this a "Robin thing" but tools for non zoners would balance the game better - maybe even some "I'm a ghost" frames on MB roll. I'm not a dev, would just like to play one of my favorite characters. Whatever happens, a patch or the meta changes, I just hope it doesn't happen too late in the game's life.