Street Fighter V General Discussion

[ILuvFightGames]

That being said y'all are crazy if you think ibuki is top 3 free, you're crazy if you think sim is top 5, and you're crazy if you think guile isn't arguably a top 5 character.

At least I don't fit any of the above lol

 

[B. Shazzy]

Momochi and Tokido also listed Guile among their worst matchups very recently.

Rashid isn't a character with a ton of bad MU's or good MU's. It's not like he 6-4's a lot of the cast but he also doesn't lose very heavily to anyone. Many of the top tier characters can push him around in neutral though and it's kind of silly to call him top 5 when Balrog, Urien, Cammy, Laura, Guile, Ibuki and Karin are in the game.

uh that must be a personal thing because those matchups themselves are fine.


Nobody 6-4s a lot of the cast. There are characters in top 5 right now that have more losing matchups than Rashid or even lose to him like Balrog. There's no "many" characters push him around there's just other characters in his tier that he has to play against sometimes like everybody else. I've seen rashid in plenty of Japanese top 5 and heard Sajam say it the other week as well. Watch what happens next patch when Urien and Guile aren't in the spotlight anymore

 

[Rip Torn]

You better step off that argument. That was ryu to a T and all the haters still demanded he get nerfed into oblivion.

S1 Ryu was much better than S2 Rashid is. He had massive damage, decent footsies, great aa's, throw loops, broken jump ins. There is no comparison. He probably had a bunch of 6-4's and 5.5-4.5. Rashid now probably has a bunch of 5-5's and 4.5-5.5's.

Edit: he has his share of 5.5-4.5's too - so don't get me wrong there.

 

[Rip Torn]

uh that must be a personal thing because those matchups themselves are fine.


Nobody 6-4s a lot of the cast. There are characters in top 5 right now that have more losing matchups than Rashid or even lose to him like Balrog. There's no "many" characters push him around there's just other characters in his tier that he has to play against sometimes like everybody else. I've seen rashid in plenty of Japanese top 5 and heard Sajam say it the other week as well. Watch what happens next patch when Urien and Guile aren't in the spotlight anymore

Rashid doesn't beat Balrog. It's actually in Balrog's favor.

I just listed 2 of Japan's top players and you say they have personal issues with the MU? So you can use Ranmasanma and Sajam as references but I can't use Momochi and Tokido?

Watch what happens when Rashid's aa short get's nerfed. His defence is already lackluster with the v-reversal nerf (it's almost unusable) and now his aa's take a major hit. They need to give him upper body invincibility on HP spinning mixer if they take away st.LK.

 

[FL Rushdown]

S1 Ryu was much better than S2 Rashid is. He had massive damage, decent footsies, great aa's, throw loops, broken jump ins. There is no comparison. He probably had a bunch of 6-4's and 5.5-4.5. Rashid now probably has a bunch of 5-5's and 4.5-5.5's.

Edit: he has his share of 5.5-4.5's too - so don't get me wrong there.

Name one character ryu 6-4d in s1 that wasn't fang.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Rashid doesn't beat Balrog. It's actually in Balrog's favor.

I just listed 2 of Japan's top players and you say they have personal issues with the MU? So you can use Ranmasanma and Sajam as references but I can't use Momochi and Tokido?

Watch what happens when Rashid's aa short get's nerfed. His defence is already lackluster with the v-reversal nerf (it's almost unusable) and now his aa's take a major hit. They need to give him upper body invincibility on HP spinning mixer if they take away st.LK.

lul you're kidding right. There's no Balrog on the planet that thinks he wins the matchup and I've never heard a decent rashid complain about the matchup.

Ranmasama plays the character, plus I've played him myself and he gets results and Sajam understands the game well. Credible enough opinions. Tokido and momochi's characters don't lose to Guile like at all, I know this, and I doubt they meant whatever they said about guile the you way you're taking it.

Welcome to the game where most characters don't have consistent aa lights/ cross under mixups anymore glad you could join us lul. I saw Oil king antiaring fine with Rashid, not using lk, doing things like aa j. Mp xx eagle spike at Sonic Boom a week ago I think he'll be ok get gud I guess lul

 

[Rip Torn]

Name one character ryu 6-4d in s1 that wasn't fang.

Laura and Ibuki.

 

[Rip Torn]

lul you're kidding right. There's no Balrog on the planet that thinks he wins the matchup and I've never heard a decent rashid complain about the matchup.

Smug and PR Balrog both did not mention Rashid as a bad MU when they gave interviews in S2. Maybe there is something I'm missing but obviously it's not this bad MU that you are making it out to be. If anything it's closer to 5-5 or one character has a slight advantage but it's nothing worth complaining about either way.

I do think Balrog has slight advantage in neutral and also in damage so I don't see why Balrog players would be complaining about that.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Smug and PR Balrog both did not mention Rashid as a bad MU when they gave interviews in S2. Maybe there is something I'm missing but obviously it's not this bad MU that you are making it out to be. If anything it's closer to 5-5 or one character has a slight advantage but it's nothing worth complaining about either way.

I do think Balrog has slight advantage in neutral and also in damage so I don't see why Balrog players would be complaining about that.

oh they didn't mention in an interview I guess that means -

^ pr Balrogs matchup chart. clean 6-4 over Balrog no 5.5. I could get smugs opinion too but that wouldn't change anything in your mind either. Brain F agrees too btw

 

[FL Rushdown]

Laura and Ibuki.

Eh probably not TBH. Ibuki maybe Laura for sure not. I don't think s1 ryu would even be in discussion for top 5 this season and maybe not even top 7-8. Rashido is. Nuff said imo.

 

[FL Rushdown]

oh they didn't mention in an interview I guess that means -

^ pr Balrogs matchup chart. clean 6-4 over Balrog no 5.5. I could get smugs opinion too but that wouldn't change anything in your mind either. Brain F agrees too btw

Yeah but Brian f also thinks Rog is a fair character lol. And I definitely don't buy Urien 6-4ing Rog. And fuck off vega/fang beats Rog lol.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Yeah but Brian f also thinks Rog is a fair character lol. And I definitely don't buy Urien 6-4ing Rog. And fuck off vega beats Rog lol.

Ya I don't see the Vega/Urien thing being that cut and dry looking at that tier list tho Balrog has almost double favorable matchups Guile has while losing the same of amount matchups as him. Rashid has no losing matchups, does well against everybody and especially some key matchups like Balrog no way Rashid can't be top 5 apparently even though I'd take his matchup chart over Guiles any day lul

but somehow Guiles the best in the in the game tokido and momochi struggle against him man so it must be true lul marn put him and dhalsim in top 2 legit guise so gdlk

 

[Rip Torn]

Eh probably not TBH. Ibuki maybe Laura for sure not. I don't think s1 ryu would even be in discussion for top 5 this season and maybe not even top 7-8. Rashido is. Nuff said imo.

I don't know. This argument is starting to get weird. Would S1 Ryu be top 5 this season? Idk, and it's not relevant. S1 Ryu had some really dumb stuff that was borderline broken and definitely abusable. Rashid doesn't have one thing that you could say is abusable. Everything has an answer. He is a good character but a balanced character. If someone said he's 8th in the game, I wouldn't put up much of an argument. But saying he is top 5 is a bit of a stretch and there is a definite drop off from the top 5-6 who are in the top tier and the 7-15 that are in A tier or whatever.

 

[Rip Torn]

Ya I don't see the Vega/Urien thing being that cut and dry looking at that tier list tho Balrog has almost double favorable matchups Guile has while losing the same of amount matchups as him. Rashid has no losing matchups, does well against everybody and especially some key matchups like Balrog no way Rashid can't be top 5 apparently even though I'd take his matchup chart over Guiles any day lul

but somehow Guiles the best in the in the game tokido and momochi struggle against him man so it must be true lul marn put him and dhalsim in top 2 legit guise so gdlk

Why don't you just play Rashid then if you think he's this good? No losing matchups, you must be kidding...

 

[B. Shazzy]

I don't know. This argument is starting to get weird. Would S1 Ryu be top 5 this season? Idk, and it's not relevant. S1 Ryu had some really dumb stuff that was borderline broken and definitely abusable. Rashid doesn't have one thing that you could say is abusable. Everything has an answer. He is a good character but a balanced character. If someone said he's 8th in the game, I wouldn't put up much of an argument. But saying he is top 5 is a bit of a stretch and there is a definite drop off from the top 5-6 who are in the top tier and the 7-15 that are in A tier or whatever.

He doesn't have anything abusable? Lul Cr. HP is top 3 braindead normal in the game. At least they made 1 of his cc combo starting buttons have a weakness this season. Throw loops? Plus on block projectiles if you don't happen to have a meterless option to stop him? A million ambiguous crossup in vtrigger that he gets 2 of a round guaranteed. AA lights. He has 360 aa hitbox on his hp mixer that launches crossup jump ins back into the corner. His godlike jump ins? The character is so cheap please man stop

Who does he lose to? Rashids I know say he's gdlk and I agree. Who clearly 6-4s Rashid not 5.1s him or anything?



Remember when you tried to tell me that Rashid the character with every mobility option in the game lost to s1 Guile? Because he couldn't get in for free with vskill? Well now rashid's vskill is not only better with projectile inv but can be safe on block lul so gdlk man

 

[FL Rushdown]

I don't know. This argument is starting to get weird. Would S1 Ryu be top 5 this season? Idk, and it's not relevant. S1 Ryu had some really dumb stuff that was borderline broken and definitely abusable. Rashid doesn't have one thing that you could say is abusable. Everything has an answer. He is a good character but a balanced character. If someone said he's 8th in the game, I wouldn't put up much of an argument. But saying he is top 5 is a bit of a stretch and there is a definite drop off from the top 5-6 who are in the top tier and the 7-15 that are in A tier or whatever.

Well if you don't know I can tell you. No. s1 ryu, with an invincible meterless reversal and a godlike j lk, and throw loops would definitely not be better than cammy, Urien, Rog, Laura, and gief. He might edge out Karin/akuma/guile. But he'd have losing/even matchups vs every single one of them plus losing matchups to characters like bison so yeah. Imo s1 ryu was falling off a bit towards the end similar to nash(not as hard as Nash did though) but it was clear most people's problem with ryu was that the tools he had were simple/easy not that they were overpowered to a large degree. And he didnt have anywhere near enough dirt to compete with current top tiers.

 

[Rip Torn]

He doesn't have anything abusable? Lul Cr. HP is top 3 braindead normal in the game. At least they made 1 of his cc combo starting buttons have a weakness this season. Throw loops? Plus on block projectiles if you don't happen to have a meterless option to stop him? A million ambiguous crossup in vtrigger that he gets 2 of a round guaranteed. AA lights. He has 360 aa hitbox on his hp mixer that launches crossup jump ins back into the corner. His godlike jump ins? The character is so cheap please man stop

Who does he lose to? Rashids I know say he's gdlk and I agree. Who clearly 6-4s Rashid not 5.1s him or anything?



Remember when you tried to tell me that Rashid the character with every mobility option in the game lost to s1 Guile? Because he couldn't get in for free with vskill? Well now rashid's vskill is not only better with projectile inv but can be safe on block lul so gdlk man

cr.HP is very good but also carries a big risk. It can be jumped on a read for huge damage or whiff punished. Also, on whiff it has a lot of recovery so the opponent gets to start their offense even if they don't punish it.

Throw loops in corner only, pretty much standard in S2.

Plus on block projectiles but every character in the game can punish just by pressing any button before the animation finishes. It's pretty much a free CC for many characters. At the very least you can jump out of it if he spaces it really good and your normals don't reach. Only ex wws in the corner gives guaranteed plus frames on block.

His AA lights are so average and almost always lose to at least 1 jump in from every character (usually j.HP or j.HK).

HP mixer trades too much, and it's an unfavorable trade because the first hit only does 20 damage. Not only that, it loses straight up frames 1-4. Other than that, it's pretty good aa. It just needs to be done much earlier than a standard dp aa. Think about how much Guile's Mk flash kick trades and multiply that by about 5, just to give you an idea of it's reliability.

V-trigger - it's good. Not as damaging if you start a combo off it but yeah it's basically a free mixup.

Rashid did lose to S1 Guile, v-skill roll was much worse for projectile invincibility. He could always make his roll kick safe on block, so I'm not sure why you think that was a big S2 buff.

Possible solid 4-6's are Guile and Karin. Not sure about Cammy and Urien, close to 4-6 probably. Claw is another that could possible devolve into a 4-6 considering his coming buffs.

 

[FL Rushdown]

cr.HP is very good but also carries a big risk. It can be jumped on a read for huge damage or whiff punished. Also, on whiff it has a lot of recovery so the opponent gets to start their offense even if they don't punish it.

Throw loops in corner only, pretty much standard in S2.

Plus on block projectiles but every character in the game can punish just by pressing any button before the animation finishes. It's pretty much a free CC for many characters. At the very least you can jump out of it if he spaces it really good and your normals don't reach. Only ex wws in the corner gives guaranteed plus frames on block.

His AA lights are so average and almost always lose to at least 1 jump in from every character (usually j.HP or j.HK).

HP mixer trades too much, and it's an unfavorable trade because the first hit only does 20 damage. Not only that, it loses straight up frames 1-4. Other than that, it's pretty good aa. It just needs to be done much earlier than a standard dp aa. Think about how much Guile's Mk flash kick trades and multiply that by about 5, just to give you an idea of it's reliability.

V-trigger - it's good. Not as damaging if you start a combo off it but yeah it's basically a free mixup.

Rashid did lose to S1 Guile, v-skill roll was much worse for projectile invincibility. He could always make his roll kick safe on block, so I'm not sure why you think that was a big S2 buff.

Possible solid 4-6's are Guile and Karin. Not sure about Cammy and Urien, close to 4-6 probably. Claw is another that could possible devolve into a 4-6 considering his coming buffs.

I'm gonna agree with shazzy that rashid probably doesn't get 6-4d by guile and I'm also gonna say he doesn't get 6-4d by Urien. Go into training mode and have Urien do all his frame traps. Then mash cr mk as rashid and tell me what you low profile.

 

[B. Shazzy]

cr.HP is very good but also carries a big risk. It can be jumped on a read for huge damage or whiff punished. Also, on whiff it has a lot of recovery so the opponent gets to start their offense even if they don't punish it.

Throw loops in corner only, pretty much standard in S2.

Plus on block projectiles but every character in the game can punish just by pressing any button before the animation finishes. It's pretty much a free CC for many characters. At the very least you can jump out of it if he spaces it really good and your normals don't reach. Only ex wws in the corner gives guaranteed plus frames on block.

His AA lights are so average and almost always lose to at least 1 jump in from every character (usually j.HP or j.HK).

HP mixer trades too much, and it's an unfavorable trade because the first hit only does 20 damage. Not only that, it loses straight up frames 1-4. Other than that, it's pretty good aa. It just needs to be done much earlier than a standard dp aa. Think about how much Guile's Mk flash kick trades and multiply that by about 5, just to give you an idea of it's reliability.

V-trigger - it's good. Not as damaging if you start a combo off it but yeah it's basically a free mixup.

Rashid did lose to S1 Guile, v-skill roll was much worse for projectile invincibility. He could always make his roll kick safe on block, so I'm not sure why you think that was a big S2 buff.

Possible solid 4-6's are Guile and Karin. Not sure about Cammy and Urien, close to 4-6 probably. Claw is another that could possible devolve into a 4-6 considering his coming buffs.

It doesn't matter if some characters have throw loops as well it's still abusable and cheap isnt it

And no you have to guess what speed of whirlwhind he's gonna do to get your "free cc" like anyone actually ccs rashid in this situation ever lol.

If his aa lights are averagewhy is he taking such "a massive hit" in aas now that he's losing them?

I didn't see it trade once when oil king played. Sure some character have a jump ins that are ridciculous, like your own, but that's not the only aa he has plus it's not a character issue. Being too late isn't a character issue. In Guiles case he was meant to have upper body invincibility yet still traded and loses even now well after startup big difference

No Guile doesn't beat rashid I play Valle and Ranma they agree. No the pushback on Rashid's vskill on block wasn't as far as it is now they specifically buffed that part of it


Rip I have to know who are you playing that you understand Rashid at the highest level enough to understand his place in the game? It's a valid question. Where do you get your experience?

 

[Rip Torn]

I'm gonna agree with shazzy that rashid probably doesn't get 6-4d by guile and I'm also gonna say he doesn't get 6-4d by Urien. Go into training mode and have Urien do all his frame traps. Then mash cr mk as rashid and tell me what you low profile.

Of course you say that, you play Urien and He plays Guile.

I know about Rashid's cr.MK low profile. It's definitely interesting and may change a bunch of stuff, but for now I don't know how legit it is during the course of a real match. Some characters can blow it up by just using different buttons, so idk. I haven't labbed it that much.

 

[Rip Torn]

It doesn't matter if some characters have throw loops as well it's still abusabel and cheap isnt it

And no you have to guess what speed of whirlwhind he's gonna do to get your "free cc" like anyone actually ccs rashid in this situation ever lol

If his aa lights are averagewhy is he taking such "a massive hit" in aas now that he's losing them?

I didn't see it trade once when oil king played. Sure some character have a jump ins that are ridciculous, like your own, but that's not the only aa he has plus it's not a character issue. Being too late isn't a character issue. In Guiles case he was meant to have upper body invincibility yet still traded well after startup big difference

No Guile doesn't beat rashid I play Valle and Ranma they agree. No the pushback on Rashid's vskill on block wasn't as far as it is now they specifically buffed that part of it

So you watched a couple games and HP mixer didn't trade... I guess that means it never trades? Why can't it just have upper body invincibility like every other aa DP?

Rashid v-skill kick is more punishable now if you don't space it. At the same time it has more pushback, so it's easier to space. It's kind of like they made it more useful as a meaty/ranged attack, but they also made it a bigger punish if you get sloppy with it. The biggest buff was that they let you cancel it into CA. Unfortunately the CA doesn't connect at max range, so you have to be careful when using that in certain situations.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Of course you say that, you play Urien and He plays Guile.

I know about Rashid's cr.MK low profile. It's definitely interesting and may change a bunch of stuff, but for now I don't know how legit it is during the course of a real match. Some characters can blow it up by just using different buttons, so idk. I haven't labbed it that much.

yeah you're right. I only think rashid does ok vs Urien because I play Urien. Not because Urien only has 1 legit medium frame trap that works vs rashid and not because rashid has no trouble at all with uriens fireball game. Definitely not because uriens lack of a 3 frame button and no legit reversal makes rashido pretty threatening up close. Listen man Urien probably wins the matchup but he does it slightly and it's only cause aegis is good. If you're having trouble fighting Urien in the neutral with that character or pressuring him on knockdown/dealing with knee pressure etc it's cause you don't know the matchup. Simple. Rashid has consistently been downplayed more than almost anyone else for some reason. That character is strong.

 

[B. Shazzy]

So you watched a couple games and HP mixer didn't trade... I guess that means it never trades? Why can't it just have upper body invincibility like every other aa DP?

Rashid v-skill kick is more punishable now if you don't space it. At the same time it has more pushback, so it's easier to space. It's kind of like they made it more useful as a meaty/ranged attack, but they also made it a bigger punish if you get sloppy with it. The biggest buff was that they let you cancel it into CA. Unfortunately the CA doesn't connect at max range, so you have to be careful when using that in certain situations.

why so rashid plays can mash out more heavies in neutral and still recover in time to aa you with 360 hitbox invincible dps? No thanks bro lul

the truth is you don't have any experience to come from to put your cards on the table and explain these numbers you throw out besides theory fighter and what other people say that fit your own personal experience. exhibit a the Balrog-Rashid matchup. No idea where you pulled that 6-4 Balrog from if not your own exp or some guy in stream chat said it and you agree or something lul it's been the same thing with the Guile matchupno idea where you get these ideas from

yeah you're right. I only think rashid does ok vs Urien because I play Urien. Not because Urien only has 1 legit medium frame trap that works vs rashid and not because rashid has no trouble at all with uriens fireball game. Definitely not because uriens lack of a 3 frame button and no legit reversal makes rashido pretty threatening up close. Listen man Urien probably wins the matchup but he does it slightly and it's only cause aegis is good. If you're having trouble fighting Urien in the neutral with that character or pressuring him on knockdown/dealing with knee pressure etc it's cause you don't know the matchup. Simple. Rashid has consistently been downplayed more than almost anyone else for some reason. That character is strong.

damn you admittied it get exposed Urien player

 

[Rip Torn]

yeah you're right. I only think rashid does ok vs Urien because I play Urien. Not because Urien only has 1 legit medium frame trap that works vs rashid and not because rashid has no trouble at all with uriens fireball game. Definitely not because uriens lack of a 3 frame button and no legit reversal makes rashido pretty threatening up close. Listen man Urien probably wins the matchup but he does it slightly and it's only cause aegis is good. If you're having trouble fighting Urien in the neutral with that character or pressuring him on knockdown/dealing with knee pressure etc it's cause you don't know the matchup. Simple. Rashid has consistently been downplayed more than almost anyone else for some reason. That character is strong.

Rashid is strong but Urien is dumb. He's got better zoning and midrange than Rashid. Yes Rashid is probably better up close (point blank), but everywhere else Urien wins. Urien can't go crazy with zoning but saying Rashid has no trouble at all with zoning is not true. Delayed orbs messes with v-skill roll timing. Knee is not really an issue unless the Urien is being unpredictable with it. On knockdown there are some safe jump setups that I've found against Urien, other than that it's really not that bad. It's not like he's completely free. Overall, I don't think Urien has to worry about much against Rashid unless he is stuck in the corner and Rashid has a few bars or v-trigger.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Rashid is strong but Urien is dumb. He's got better zoning and midrange than Rashid. Yes Rashid is probably better up close (point blank), but everywhere else Urien wins. Urien can't go crazy with zoning but saying Rashid has no trouble at all with zoning is not true. Delayed orbs messes with v-skill roll timing. Knee is not really an issue unless the Urien is being unpredictable with it. On knockdown there are some safe jump setups that I've found against Urien, other than that it's really not that bad. It's not like he's completely free. Overall, I don't think Urien has to worry about much against Rashid unless he is stuck in the corner and Rashid has a few bars or v-trigger.

Urien doesn't beat rashid full screen and he doesn't beat him inside rashids cr hp range unless Urien is already at advantage. He's got longer limbs but worse startup and it's not like he can zone rashid out. If Urien is in your face and at advantage it's cause rashid fucked up or guessed wrong. Plain and simple. Uriens dumb cause he'll kill you in a mixup not cause his neutral game is godlike.