Street Fighter V General Discussion

[Rip Torn]

I'm fairly certain that that won't work. Best you're gonna get is sweep or a mk tatsu after the second cr mp. And sweep will only be on ch, and the tatsu won't hit 3 times so no dp after. If you're retardedly godlike you could confirm lk tatsu but it's too risky to try as akuma imo. You're betting half your life on your ability to visually confirm the hit and standing state in like 5 frames.

It works. You just have to be pretty close when you do the first cr.MP. But if you are doing the sweep setup you will be there.

So this loop works midscreen: (point blank to about 1/4 step back) cr.MP (blocked) cr.MP (counter hit confirm) st.MK~LK Tatsu, Sweep. Dash cr.MP (blocked) cr.MP (counterhit) etc..repeat...

no crazy 5 frame hit confirms.

 

[FL Rushdown]

It works. You just have to be pretty close when you do the first cr.MP. But if you are doing the sweep setup you will be there.

So this loop works midscreen: (point blank to about 1/4 step back) cr.MP (blocked) cr.MP (counter hit confirm) st.MK~LK Tatsu, Sweep. Dash cr.MP (blocked) cr.MP (counterhit) etc..repeat...

no crazy 5 frame hit confirms.

Nah dog it definitely doesn't work. It's like corner only and with a 1 frame micro walk. It's definitely not legit lol. And that's absolute point blank. Any legit wakeup situation it won't work. Unless it's hkd in the corner in which case you aren't using meaty cr mp.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

speaking of akuma, xsk samurai wants to train the guile matchup tomorrow and I'll most likely stream it.

hopefully Myles I mean u guis can be there for morale boost lul

Let us know what time you're streaming.

 

[FL Rushdown]

So yeah I'm testing it and it's theoretically possible midscreen from absolute point blank but you've gotta do a 1 frame micro walk. I would highly. HIGHLY recommend you do not put yourself in a situation where you don't get a combo in a bunch of situations and have to actually do a 1(mayyyyybe 2 but that's the most it could possibly be) frame link for an extra 30 dmg.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Side note the mk leaves you at better spacing for demon flip mixups on block as well. After 2 cr mps you're poorly spaced.

 

[Rip Torn]

Nah dog it definitely doesn't work. It's like corner only and with a 1 frame micro walk. It's definitely not legit lol. And that's absolute point blank. Any legit wakeup situation it won't work. Unless it's hkd in the corner in which case you aren't using meaty cr mp.

Ok, I see what I was doing wrong. Set the dummy to standing but then has him hitting cr.LP on guard recovery which was giving me the crouching hit state. But then I noticed st.MP connected either way. Doesn't combo into LK tatsu but does combo into MK Tatsu. Only two hits and I can't follow up with HP DP... Fireball works. Fireball into v-trigger into DP works. MK might be better for demon flip shenanigans but test this out sometime (you're probably getting tired of me tonight, lol).

 

[FL Rushdown]

Ok, I see what I was doing wrong. Set the dummy to standing but then has him hitting cr.LP on guard recovery which was giving me the crouching hit state. But then I noticed st.MP connected either way. Doesn't combo into LK tatsu but does combo into MK Tatsu. Only two hits and I can't follow up with HP DP... Fireball works. Fireball into v-trigger into DP works. MK might be better for demon flip shenanigans but test this out sometime (you're probably getting tired of me tonight, lol).

Again though you run into the problem of if you're going to get the counter hit anyway is one extra hit at the start worth losing the better combos/setups/mixups. Imo not really. Yeah you could theoretically get an extra 30 dmg off your frame trap if you decided to land a 1 frame link in sfv(why). But that frame trap is blocked more than it hits. I'd rather keep the options open and stay at a range I'm better at 70% of the time than put myself out of my ideal range(and possibly into my opponents).

 

[Rip Torn]

Again though you run into the problem of if you're going to get the counter hit anyway is one extra hit at the start worth losing the better combos/setups/mixups. Imo not really. Yeah you could theoretically get an extra 30 dmg off your frame trap if you decided to land a 1 frame link in sfv(why). But that frame trap is blocked more than it hits. I'd rather keep the options open and stay at a range I'm better at 70% of the time than put myself out of my ideal range(and possibly into my opponents).

I guess I'm confused... What is the counter-hit combo potential of st.MK compared to cr. MP? I get that st.MK forces standing and that leads to better combos/setups, but you said yourself that you aren't confirming off a single normal anyway. So basically, what is the better frame trap once cr.MP is blocked? Another cr.MP leaves you +3 on block and on counterhit a small combo or sweep into a hard knockdown (no back recovery). On regular hit you can throw a fireball and be safe if blocked or combo on hit.

If you press st.MK after cr.MP, you are -2 on block and on counter-hit I don't think you get very much (I can't seem to get anything really). You can't use a fireball as a safe option because st.MK leaves you so close so they could punish it on block.

Seems like st.MK is better used once you've confirmed cr.MP has hit, and cr.MP is better used as a blockstring/frame trap/pressure tool.

Also, cr.MP (block) cr.MP (counterhit) st.MP is not a 1 frame link, afaik.

 

[FL Rushdown]

You can absolutely confirm a single hit, but st mk is 100x easier to confirm than cr mp is. It's got a larger window to see it plus it forces standing so you only have to focus on hit/block instead of also having to confirm standing/crouching.

Also I'm pretty sure I've never been punished for cr mp into st mk xx fireball. It leaves you like -4/-5 at a pretty decent distance. I don't think anyone has a non ca punish to it as long as it's not from point blank.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

@ILuvFightGames

I've mained Karin, for as little as I've played, since I announced her as my main. I almost want to switch to Cammy since o think they both do the same thing but Cammy does it better, but Cammy is also a lot harder to play well imo and Karin has tools to cover my scrubby play occasionally and help me take rounds when I otherwise probably shouldn't.

I am looking for a secondary character though, I just get bored and need to change shit up occasionally. Thought about Gief but I just can't play him. Thought about Urien, but I'll probably default to Ryu to be honest and treat it as a 'starting' over kind of thing.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Games in an hour? I really want to work on some things.

 

[JJvercetti]

@ILuvFightGames

I've mained Karin, for as little as I've played, since I announced her as my main. I almost want to switch to Cammy since o think they both do the same thing but Cammy does it better, but Cammy is also a lot harder to play well imo and Karin has tools to cover my scrubby play occasionally and help me take rounds when I otherwise probably shouldn't.

I am looking for a secondary character though, I just get bored and need to change shit up occasionally. Thought about Gief but I just can't play him. Thought about Urien, but I'll probably default to Ryu to be honest and treat it as a 'starting' over kind of thing.

You cant use him or you find Zangief boring?

 

[EntropicByDesign]

You cant use him or you find Zangief boring?

Its kinda both. What happens is I get bored being careful and slowly working my way forward and I just wanna scoop bitches, so I start getting impatient and get too aggressive and couple that with a very base-line gameplan to begin with - and Im just not good at him.

@JJvercetti Make me Gief gud.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Its kinda both. What happens is I get bored being careful and slowly working my way forward and I just wanna scoop bitches, so I start getting impatient and get too aggressive and couple that with a very base-line gameplan to begin with - and Im just not good at him.

@JJvercetti Make me Gief gud.

Man if you wanna grapple and go super ham from the start just pick Laura. If you want a mix of patient and strategically crazy gameplay pick Mika. If you wanna sit there and wait for 1 scoop then kill a fool play gief. If you wanna lose pick Alex.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I already lose, so Alex wouldn't be a bad choice. i could option select my losses. I actually *really* like him, but I just dont want a low tier character. Even though he fits me reasonably well.

Ya know why I dont play Laura? You. You and I sat down one day and I played Laura, it was, for the most part, the first time I had played her vs a person. Maybe 45m in training mode. You saw, I had no combos, but occasionally I did a thing.

Obviously I lost badly, but ya know what? I had rounds, where my complete shit Laura, with me having not a damn setup to speak of, just understanding the SUPER basic meaty stuff, while learning the character, took a round off you, or ran it surprisingly close. Not because I was doing a damn thing right, but simply because if I knocked you down and you guessed wrong I caught up or got ahead on life.

Something about that left a bad taste in my mouth. VERY rarely when I was 'winning' a round or even just keeping up, or I ran a health lead you had built back mostly back and evened things out, I didnt feel like *I* had done something smart or worthwhile. I felt like I yolo'd and it worked and then you made a wrong guess and that meant I was good at SF or something.. Because I saw SEVERAL rounds, and one or two games, that if I hadnt dropped the combo, or had just known the thing from the start, that Id have won through no real intelligent play of my own, but simply because I did a thing that worked and then you didnt guess right.

I know guessing right *is* this game, every character makes you guess, but on Laura I felt like, even though i was losing badly 90% of the time, I was being carried by the character and I could see just how far that carry would have actually been, had I had a few basics with her, like Vtrigger combos, down in the slightest.

Shrug. I know its a stupid reason, but that set of ours turned me off to her. I saw how I could work on her and how strong she'd be, but I also saw that I would be carried.

Mika is still dope as shit and probably the grappler I *should* play, since she can play in so many different ways. I keep forgetting about her and I dont know why.

Gief I want to learn mainly, so I understand how to play against him, since, and I am probably wrong, but since I think as time goes by, and especially after the upcoming patch, he will end up top 1-2-3 and there will be 10million of them.


This is an odd question, but what character in this game relies the ABSOLUTE LEAST on setplay and oki?

 

[ILuvFightGames]

I already lose, so Alex wouldn't be a bad choice. i could option select my losses. I actually *really* like him, but I just dont want a low tier character. Even though he fits me reasonably well.

Ya know why I dont play Laura? You. You and I sat down one day and I played Laura, it was, for the most part, the first time I had played her vs a person. Maybe 45m in training mode. You saw, I had no combos, but occasionally I did a thing.

Obviously I lost badly, but ya know what? I had rounds, where my complete shit Laura, with me having not a damn setup to speak of, just understanding the SUPER basic meaty stuff, while learning the character, took a round off you, or ran it surprisingly close. Not because I was doing a damn thing right, but simply because if I knocked you down and you guessed wrong I caught up or got ahead on life.

Something about that left a bad taste in my mouth. VERY rarely when I was 'winning' a round or even just keeping up, or I ran a health lead you had built back mostly back and evened things out, I didnt feel like *I* had done something smart or worthwhile. I felt like I yolo'd and it worked and then you made a wrong guess and that meant I was good at SF or something.. Because I saw SEVERAL rounds, and one or two games, that if I hadnt dropped the combo, or had just known the thing from the start, that Id have won through no real intelligent play of my own, but simply because I did a thing that worked and then you didnt guess right.

I know guessing right *is* this game, every character makes you guess, but on Laura I felt like, even though i was losing badly 90% of the time, I was being carried by the character and I could see just how far that carry would have actually been, had I had a few basics with her, like Vtrigger combos, down in the slightest.

Shrug. I know its a stupid reason, but that set of ours turned me off to her. I saw how I could work on her and how strong she'd be, but I also saw that I would be carried.

Mika is still dope as shit and probably the grappler I *should* play, since she can play in so many different ways. I keep forgetting about her and I dont know why.

Gief I want to learn mainly, so I understand how to play against him, since, and I am probably wrong, but since I think as time goes by, and especially after the upcoming patch, he will end up top 1-2-3 and there will be 10million of them.


This is an odd question, but what character in this game relies the ABSOLUTE LEAST on setplay and oki?

Sorry for the noob ass question but what is set play?

 

[NHDR]

Probably Guile. He has some tricks and setups when it comes to V-trigger, but he's mostly a straightforward zoner with bouts of rush down thrown in. Necalli is also a straightforward footsie character.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Probably Guile. He has some tricks and setups when it comes to V-trigger, but he's mostly a straightforward zoner with bouts of rush down thrown in. Necalli is also a straightforward footsie character.

I had some success with Necalli in s1

And yeah Guile seems like he's based around just beating you in neutral over and over. Death of a thousand cuts. Kinda.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Sorry for the noob ass question but what is set play?

It can mean a few different things, it's a term people tend to use to explain away a shit load of different stuff, but the general meaning of set play is a character that sets things up and then plays around it. Kolin is set play. She's based around these specific setups that allow her to do additional shit. A super super simple example would be, let's say I have this specific blockstring that starts with a meaty and I end it with such and such a move that leaves me at a perfect distance to then jump and do a really ambiguous crossup. That is a very very very basic idea of set play. I did something that set up a situation that allowed me to do something else.

The term can extend to characters that have strong oki, it can also encompass vortex characters, etc. But it's core is you doing something that sets you up to do something else.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

I had some success with Necalli in s1

I'm also tempted to give necalli a try, seems very fun and honestly seems like a character that has everything. Well no fireball but he has the ground pound which works like one in a way.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I'm also tempted to give necalli a try, seems very fun and honestly seems like a character that has everything. Well no fireball but he has the ground pound which works like one in a way.

He's fun too. I mained him for a month or so in s1. He had stubby-ish normals but he has ways around that. Great pressure, great footsie games. One of the better vtriggers in the game and since it's infinite it's nice from a quality of life perspective.

Damnit now I'm thinking about Necalli.

My one issue with him was never adjusting to charging correctly. I was forever missing combos because I'd forget.


Welp, I'm gonna take a nap. Anyone want to play around 430-5? I have to work a 14hr shift tonight at 9 and need to get SOME sleep before it.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

It can mean a few different things, it's a term people tend to use to explain away a shit load of different stuff, but the general meaning of set play is a character that sets things up and then plays around it. Kolin is set play. She's based around these specific setups that allow her to do additional shit. A super super simple example would be, let's say I have this specific blockstring that starts with a meaty and I end it with such and such a move that leaves me at a perfect distance to then jump and do a really ambiguous crossup. That is a very very very basic idea of set play. I did something that set up a situation that allowed me to do something else.

The term can extend to characters that have strong oki, it can also encompass vortex characters, etc. But it's core is you doing something that sets you up to do something else.

Ok thanks man. So is it safe to say that for example in mkx cyrax is a very setplay character?

 

[Rip Torn]

You can absolutely confirm a single hit, but st mk is 100x easier to confirm than cr mp is. It's got a larger window to see it plus it forces standing so you only have to focus on hit/block instead of also having to confirm standing/crouching.

Also I'm pretty sure I've never been punished for cr mp into st mk xx fireball. It leaves you like -4/-5 at a pretty decent distance. I don't think anyone has a non ca punish to it as long as it's not from point blank.

I can't confirm st.MK into tatsu or v-skill kick. Maybe it's my old man reactions but it seems super difficult even for a top level player. I'm sure there are some people that can do it, but not me. On the other hand, I could teach myself to look for a crouching hit animation and then link that into st.MK. If I see any other animation other than the crouching hit, I don't press st.MK. So, I'm not really looking for multiple things, I'm just concentrating on seeing a certain animation and I have a lot more time to do it. However, if you have the reactions to hit confirm a st.MK into tatsu or whatever, then yeah I would agree that it's the better option. I just never really entertained the idea because I didn't think it was realistic.

With the cr.MP counter-hit confirm into st.MP, it doesn't matter if they were standing or blocking anyway. The st.MP will always connect.

Also, from a pressure standpoint, you have a lot of options even if they block the second cr.MP. Micro walk cr.MK into fireball, st.HP, microwalk st.MK, microwalk cr.HP, microwalk cr.MP.

As for punishing fireballs, I was looking at this from a cr.MP meaty situation after tatsu into sweep knockdown. So yes, in typical neutral they won't punish it, but in a meaty situation it's pretty punishable.

 

[FL Rushdown]

I can't confirm st.MK into tatsu or v-skill kick. Maybe it's my old man reactions but it seems super difficult even for a top level player. I'm sure there are some people that can do it, but not me. On the other hand, I could teach myself to look for a crouching hit animation and then link that into st.MK. If I see any other animation other than the crouching hit, I don't press st.MK. So, I'm not really looking for multiple things, I'm just concentrating on seeing a certain animation and I have a lot more time to do it. However, if you have the reactions to hit confirm a st.MK into tatsu or whatever, then yeah I would agree that it's the better option. I just never really entertained the idea because I didn't think it was realistic.

With the cr.MP counter-hit confirm into st.MP, it doesn't matter if they were standing or blocking anyway. The st.MP will always connect.

Also, from a pressure standpoint, you have a lot of options even if they block the second cr.MP. Micro walk cr.MK into fireball, st.HP, microwalk st.MK, microwalk cr.HP, microwalk cr.MP.

As for punishing fireballs, I was looking at this from a cr.MP meaty situation after tatsu into sweep knockdown. So yes, in typical neutral they won't punish it, but in a meaty situation it's pretty punishable.

You pretty much never wanna end with sweep. There's almost no reason to. And yeah it's doable just hard. Like I said the main reason I prefer the st mk route is that on block it leaves me in a position I'm more comfortable in and gives me better options to mix it up after or during. I'd rather be -2 and at a range akuma excels in than plus 1 at a range where my buttons are all less effective. Akuma isn't a flow chart character though and I think everyone can put their own stamp on him i don't think there's an incorrect way to play him as long as you win. His multitude of options is why he's good/fun. Also just so you know cr mp into st mp will combo into lk tatsu I don't think it's possible to be at a range where one connects and the other won't.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Guile isn't even that good. Mediocre zoning that most of the cast can get around, so so buttons, okay anti air game, and he takes way more skill for any scrub to use. He's a good character but not top 5 material. He needs buffs imo

Spoiler