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For Honor

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 13.10 million[1]
Tekken 3 - 8.5 million [2]
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 7.04 million[1]
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 8.12 million[1]
Street Fighter II: The World Warriors - 6.3 million[3]
Super Smash Bros. - 5.55 million[1]
Mortal Kombat X - 5 million
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - 4.80 million[1]
Street Fighter II Turbo - 4.1 million[3]
Mortal Kombat (2011) - ~4 million


FH is somewhere around 1.6million copies sold I believe.
 
Conq's shield bash is very reactable. Not only are PK's attacks faster, but the defender has to defend appropriately since there is one of three directions - and she can throw to add in a 4th. Conq's bash can be avoided by sidestepping or rolling in any direction. What makes Conq good is his superior block. What makes PK good is her unreactable attacks. PK's D isn't great, but its good - and Conq's O isn't great, but its good. Still, you try and paint a picture that isn't the truth making either your intentions or your vision very see-through. Which is it?

So, do you not know or do you not want others to know?
"Conqs shield bash reactable" ummmmmmmmm you might want to check up on that. He gets a 50/50 and his shield bash is safe. Shield bash itself is 15 frames on console and because dodging startup takes much longer than blocking its unreactable.

Pks first lights are all reactable on block and gb is utterly useless in the neutral. the only way to open up good players is feint into zone with pk, if they're assassin just zone, or whiff the first light into another light.

"Conq's bash can be avoided by sidestepping or rolling in any direction"
yes but he can delay it or do a gb

"What makes Conq good is his superior block."
No what makes conq good is that he can play defense extremely well or he can switch and play offense extremely well.
"What makes PK good is her unreactable attacks"
Sort of its a combination of unreactable attacks and the fact that they are all safe or plus, make them unsafe and then we have a fair character.

"PK's D isn't great, but its good - and Conq's O isn't great, but its good. Still, you try and paint a picture that isn't the truth making either your intentions or your vision very see-through."
First of all pks d is very good and conqs o is also very good. Second I dont know why you still think im just attacking your character its just simply not the case i have gone after every op character. I think the problem here is very simple, you just dont understand the game very well which is fine but you need to understand it before you argue about balance.

Just to add, I'm arguing against all heavy handed nerfs and for buffing the classes that need help slightly. I don't want PK neutered. I'm just pointing out @Basic Stupidity's bias.

One example is for the Kensei, allow him to access his unblockable attack at any time, but at reduced damage if they access it early. This would give this class a tool for opening opponents up. Feinting that would be quite a tool.
Again you havent pointed out any bias because there is none. 3 characters in top tier need heavy handed nerfs they are too broken and the other classes dont need slight help they need a massive overhaul.
The problem with kensei isnt just that he cant access his unblockable the problem is his mixup game is largely a gimmick and he has too many things to worry about.
 
Yeah, I just fear they are going to completely neuter the top tier, then leave the low tier as is. This will inevitably make the game boring.

Obviously the problems with Warlord, Conq, Goki, PK and even Warden need to be addressed, but I don't trust Ubisoft to handle it the correct way. The game is already losing a shit ton of players. Obviously the casuals weren't gonna stay for very long anyway, but even the more hardcore players are already starting to lose interest. No one wants to have to deal with all the bullshit in this game all the time. And even in a low tier vs low tier fight, instead of bullshit it's extremely tedious.

I guess I'll just hope for the best but expect the worst. Oh well.
Side note warden is the most fair and balanced character in the game and all characters should be balanced like him.

He has a way of opening people up and good defense and good offense but hes punishable. Hes only top tier because all the mid tier and low tier characters are unusable.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Look, i love the game, but stating ts the most played fighting game in history, PERIOD is kinda silly, since this article is basing it off of STEAM CHARTS. If its the most played of all time ON STEAM, great, its the new 'thing' and its good they have done well but the article is super misleading, especially given that they are compiling the data from *just* Steam. I found nothing that says the data gathered was anything other than Steam Chart info.

Id also like to point out that according to Steam Charts themselves, the game has fallen in population by 60% in the last 30 days, this is, if Im not mistaken, similar to *most* multiplayer type games, with a few standout exceptions. Which means FH sold really well at release on Steam and now its dropping at the usual rate that games like it fall off. Which leads to release hype over any magical property the game possesses.

AGAIN, I like the game. I think it has MASSIVE potential, but 'Of all time' is a weird thing to say, it makes it sound like some untouchable classic that has just blown other games out of the water and its not.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Side note warden is the most fair and balanced character in the game and all characters should be balanced like him.

He has a way of opening people up and good defense and good offense but hes punishable. Hes only top tier because all the mid tier and low tier characters are unusable.
I like you.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
Look, i love the game, but stating ts the most played fighting game in history, PERIOD is kinda silly, since this article is basing it off of STEAM CHARTS. If its the most played of all time ON STEAM, great, its the new 'thing' and its good they have done well but the article is super misleading, especially given that they are compiling the data from *just* Steam. I found nothing that says the data gathered was anything other than Steam Chart info.

Id also like to point out that according to Steam Charts themselves, the game has fallen in population by 60% in the last 30 days, this is, if Im not mistaken, similar to *most* multiplayer type games, with a few standout exceptions. Which means FH sold really well at release on Steam and now its dropping at the usual rate that games like it fall off. Which leads to release hype over any magical property the game possesses.

AGAIN, I like the game. I think it has MASSIVE potential, but 'Of all time' is a weird thing to say, it makes it sound like some untouchable classic that has just blown other games out of the water and its not.

For Honor - most played fighting game of all-times according to SteamCharts
I wish to thank CitizenPuddi for taking his time to do the following research, and ultimately debunking cry'ny-whin'ey FH is doomed baby threads


Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
231 playing currently
430 24-hour peak
1,706 all-time peak

Street Fighter V
1,569 playing currently
1,678 24-hour peak
13,807 all-time peak

DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
1,188 playing currently
1,367 24-hour peak
13,570 all-time peak

Mortal Kombat X
962 playing currently
1,187 24-hour peak
13,649 all-time peak

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
1,175 playing currently
1,487 24-hour peak
23,094 all-time peak

For Honor
8,397 playing currently
8,822 24-hour peak
45,923 all-time peak



For more context, and explanation of the statistics in my own summary:


If you want to compare other games to FH, how about Street Fighter? How about Mortal Kombat? How about Star Craft 2?

All of these games are not main-stream games that are NOT being played by milions of players, infact they are niche and have tiny dedicated player basis, simply because the games are way too hard for your avarage player, and FH slips directly between Street Fighter and SC2.

Alot of casuals stay away from these games because they are too afraid of being shreked by 400 APM Koreans, and FH fits all of the above criteria.

The only way to really attract the normies, is to give them more advanced PVE scene (like dungeon raiding, and fighting bosses), which is not out of the question, might even be fun if implemented well.

Other than that , forget about it, no matter how much you balance the game, if you are not that good of it and can't hold your own, 400 APM Koreans will trash your will to live and make you rage quit eventualy.

And that is exactly what happeend to the population my dudes, in the beta the player scene was not that diverse, so you did not meet super pros that often, everybody was good, and got their hopes up thinking that they will continue to be good, a fantasy that got immediately smashed when Street Fighter and Dark Souls multiplayer scene switched over to FH shreking normies left and right, sending them into the furious rage on the forums trying to blame lag, and overpowered characters, and everything else but not them, because that would be unthinkable.

Last edited by MassiveD.; Today at 04:15 PM.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Side note warden is the most fair and balanced character in the game and all characters should be balanced like him.

He has a way of opening people up and good defense and good offense but hes punishable. Hes only top tier because all the mid tier and low tier characters are unusable.
Yeah I agree. But I only use Warden so I'm biased. None of the other characters interest me. The rest are either too good aka boring, or not good enough. I like Orochi but Warden fits my playstyle so well I have no desire to play anyone else.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
guys i really think we should all post on the for honor forums section on the ubisoft website too. i actually got a message from one of the devs about my warlord suggestions.

I know it probably doesnt mean much but still its something. I Never got any messages from NRS when i tried like crazy to save my cybernetic kano ultimately just time wasted because they gutted him unjustifiable lol
 
Reactions: GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
"Conqs shield bash reactable" ummmmmmmmm you might want to check up on that. He gets a 50/50 and his shield bash is safe. Shield bash itself is 15 frames on console and because dodging startup takes much longer than blocking its unreactable.

Pks first lights are all reactable on block and gb is utterly useless in the neutral. the only way to open up good players is feint into zone with pk, if they're assassin just zone, or whiff the first light into another light.

"Conq's bash can be avoided by sidestepping or rolling in any direction"
yes but he can delay it or do a gb

"What makes Conq good is his superior block."
No what makes conq good is that he can play defense extremely well or he can switch and play offense extremely well.
"What makes PK good is her unreactable attacks"
Sort of its a combination of unreactable attacks and the fact that they are all safe or plus, make them unsafe and then we have a fair character.

"PK's D isn't great, but its good - and Conq's O isn't great, but its good. Still, you try and paint a picture that isn't the truth making either your intentions or your vision very see-through."
First of all pks d is very good and conqs o is also very good. Second I dont know why you still think im just attacking your character its just simply not the case i have gone after every op character. I think the problem here is very simple, you just dont understand the game very well which is fine but you need to understand it before you argue about balance.


Again you havent pointed out any bias because there is none. 3 characters in top tier need heavy handed nerfs they are too broken and the other classes dont need slight help they need a massive overhaul.
The problem with kensei isnt just that he cant access his unblockable the problem is his mixup game is largely a gimmick and he has too many things to worry about.
The bias shows in your nerf proposals. You want to neuter WL and Conq, but barely want to touch PK. Its embarrassing how you try to dismiss me when your nerf suggestions are so slanted.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
guys i really think we should all post on the for honor forums section on the ubisoft website too. i actually got a message from one of the devs about my warlord suggestions.

I know it probably doesnt mean much but still its something. I Never got any messages from NRS when i tried like crazy to save my cybernetic kano ultimately just time wasted because they gutted him unjustifiable lol
...but the devs definitely listen here. They are simply instructed not to be PR. Plus, ultimate say falls to one man.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Yeah I agree. But I only use Warden so I'm biased. None of the other characters interest me. The rest are either too good aka boring, or not good enough. I like Orochi but Warden fits my playstyle so well I have no desire to play anyone else.
Orochi is just a gimped Warden.
Berserker is a gimped PK.

Those 2 characters need a design change they have nothing to offer other than being a secondary for getting insta-locked in 2v2.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
The misinformation here is getting a little out of control. @Gesture Required Ahead and @Basic Stupidity have me cringing at just their names before I even read a word of their posts.

Take a break from it. Watch this...
? What, you're telling me that Kensei is actually a good character? Saying he's bad is misinformation? I don't know if you're simply delusional or you really have no understanding of the game. I'm trash but I guarntee you I'd 10-0 you with Conq vs Kensei if you ever get the opprtuity to play on PC
 
The bias shows in your nerf proposals. You want to neuter WL and Conq, but barely want to touch PK. Its embarrassing how you try to dismiss me when your nerf suggestions are so slanted.
Again you just dont understand the character. Why would peacekeeper be the only character that gets an unreactable move nerfed into being reactable. I made a consistent decision that everything unreactable should guarantee a punish if dealt with correctly. Conqs unreactable move gets a punish, warlords does and so does peacekeeper there is no bias in this. Also, again i do not like peacekeeper, i do not play peackeeper except competitively, I think peacekeeper is op. i dont know why you think there is a bias.

Peacekeeper is made because of her zone and dashes this is the only thing that makes her good and nerfing both and making her zone punishable on block is definitely no simple small nerf. I dont understand how you can advocate that making her unreactable move punishable is too weak of a nerf and yet making conqs unreactable move punishable is just too much and then have the audacity to claim i have a bias.
 
The misinformation here is getting a little out of control. @Gesture Required Ahead and @Basic Stupidity have me cringing at just their names before I even read a word of their posts.

Take a break from it. Watch this...
Do you really think I dont understand this game? I am a competitive player I have already won many tournaments in this game. Just yesterday I made $200. I know this game, I know the heros, showing me some youtuber who doesnt understand that there is no way to actually open up a player with orochi that just sits there and blocks is pointless.

orochi's zone is reactable 15 frames, his top light reactable 15 frames, his feints end at 15 frames but theres no point if the opponent doesnt go for parry.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
A move being unreactable doesn't mean it should be nerfed. ESPECIALLY in a defense heavy game.

The devs want For Honor to be a more defensive than offensive game. But they also don't want defense to be overpowered. Right now the top tier characters have either an over powered defense, offense, or both. Warlord, imo, has both. Conquerer is also just a step below Warlord, but in many cases is harder to deal with than Warlord. Both have the best defense in the game while also having very formidable offenses. PK is really good and is winning tournaments, but her nerfs are easier to "spot" I think.

Anyway, like I said earlier, hopefully Ubisoft makes the right decisions moving forward. There's a lot of problems with this game but it has so much potential. And even with its problems it's still really fun and competitive, imo.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Do you really think I dont understand this game? I am a competitive player I have already won many tournaments in this game. Just yesterday I made $200. I know this game, I know the heros, showing me some youtuber who doesnt understand that there is no way to actually open up a player with orochi that just sits there and blocks is pointless.

orochi's zone is reactable 15 frames, his top light reactable 15 frames, his feints end at 15 frames but theres no point if the opponent doesnt go for parry.
I never said you weren't good. I said your balance suggestions are terrible.

I was hoping it was from a lack of understanding because your suggestions coupled with knowing means more devious motivations.

Its not criminal. Many top players have done it. I just hope the devs are smart enough to see through it.

You don't want balance. You want perceived balance with unmitigated aid.
 
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GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
But posting a video full of gimmicks doesn't change anyone's opinion that you don't know what your talking about. If anything it just confirms it
I was entertained by it. Not everything need be posturing.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Again you just dont understand the character. Why would peacekeeper be the only character that gets an unreactable move nerfed into being reactable. I made a consistent decision that everything unreactable should guarantee a punish if dealt with correctly. Conqs unreactable move gets a punish, warlords does and so does peacekeeper there is no bias in this. Also, again i do not like peacekeeper, i do not play peackeeper except competitively, I think peacekeeper is op. i dont know why you think there is a bias.

Peacekeeper is made because of her zone and dashes this is the only thing that makes her good and nerfing both and making her zone punishable on block is definitely no simple small nerf. I dont understand how you can advocate that making her unreactable move punishable is too weak of a nerf and yet making conqs unreactable move punishable is just too much and then have the audacity to claim i have a bias.
Conq has no unreactable move. All you have to do is dash in any direction. PK's unreactables are not only faster, but you must defend them appropriately. Your argument has shifted to you're good, so trust you.

I trust your knowledge, not your motives.