Let's talk about the MB roll mechanic.

[PLAYING TO WIN]

2 bars for mobility and a potential non-guaranteed punish seems a bit extreme.

If you're burning the bar for mobility you won't have it for damage (or later for clash), which seems fair).

Either way, calling for nerfs after one day without playing a ton of sets that heavily feature the roll is premature. The game might be balanced around it -- so let's see what the zoning characters' full toolsets are first. Otherwise there's no context.

ya that's why I was saying and/or. just some constructive thoughts. momma always said do not offer critique if you are not willing to offer some solutions (forest gump voice)

the beta is out and I hoped to have a discussion. you can see I acknowledge good points that contradict my suggestions. good talk people.

I really hope this thread is not coming across as complaining. if it is I need to figure out how to facilitate a discussion excluding that tone.
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edit:
I guess in the end I want to be able to punish it (like batgirl tele or walk forward under MMH tele) if I read it and you very well may be able to do that based on sonic fox tweet and reo's video. I really worry about what it will do to the pace/zoning but that's where my bias comes in. I hope our lord and savior is not misleading us when he said "the return of zoning" that got me all warm inside

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm sorry Salt, but that's very misleading. There were several very strong jump in attacks in Injustice.

That is true. No amounts of D2 were crushing those DS J3's, Joker Crowbar, or that Batman Jik lol. That Raven lifted may have spoiled me a bit when it comes to AA's in Inj1.

 

[Rabbit]

Two questions...
The game is not even out yet and people are already complaining?
Can this damn community WAIT for once and then pass judgement on what needs to be adjusted or not???

i haven't seen any unreasonable discussion in here.
i don't think the point of NRS releasing a beta was just for the pure enjoyment of the players.

 

[Rathalos]

How is the zoning ignoring the MB rolls?
Like how is the screen distance compared to I1, and the walk speed, and the regular roll distance?

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

How is the zoning ignoring the MB rolls?
Like how is the screen distance compared to I1, and the walk speed, and the regular roll distance?

- zoning will/cannot ignore the MB rolls and that is the point
- screen size is in btw I1 and MKX
- walk speed is better
- regular roll is just a characters normal dash. normal distance but they have more recovery in this version of the game so you cannot just dash in. this also makes some old juggle combos harder with batman and superman

 

[Rude]

That is true. No amounts of D2 were crushing those DS J3's, Joker Crowbar, or that Batman Jik lol. That Raven lifted may have spoiled me a bit when it comes to AA's in Inj1.

Aquaman. Dooomsday.

 

[Wetdoba]

Aquaman. Dooomsday.

Bane and Grundy too

 

[RNLDRGN]

Came in here to echo others' sentiments:

Keep it one bar and have added recovery. It should be punishable, but it should also be useful. You aren't going to win matches by rolling through zoning and having no bars for combos, but you shouldn't get in for free just by spending a bar either.

 

[RVB]

i haven't seen any unreasonable discussion in here.
i don't think the point of NRS releasing a beta was just for the pure enjoyment of the players.

How can you have a "reasonable" discussion about changing a move when you simply do not have the means to test the move in question in the context of a fully fleshed out released game.
Any conclusion you draw based on the things you find in this beta might be null and void when the game is up for grabs on store shelves.
So again I must ask why is the community so desperate to cry "save the zoners from this wretched move" when there's not a SINGLE zoning character present in the beta???
I have minimal interest in IJ2 but I saw what happened BEFORE MKX launched with SZ losing klone on block because people we're crying their lungs out.

All I'm saying is just maybe wait before this "reasonable" conversation fucks up a move and you all end up getting zoned a-la Kenshi again

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

How can you have a "reasonable" discussion about changing a move when you simply do not have the means to test the move in question in the context of a fully fleshed out released game.
Any conclusion you draw based on the things you find in this beta might be null and void when the game is up for grabs on store shelves.
So again I must ask why is the community so desperate to cry "save the zoners from this wretched move" when there's not a SINGLE zoning character present in the beta???
I have minimal interest in IJ2 but I saw what happened BEFORE MKX launched with SZ losing klone on block because people we're crying their lungs out.

All I'm saying is just maybe wait before this "reasonable" conversation fucks up a move and you all end up getting zoned a-la Kenshi again

Get your point. I will say this is a beta. I think part of the reason for the beta is for balancing so I opened a discussion about it

 

[RVB]

Get your point. I will say this is a beta. I think part of the reason for the beta is for balancing so I opened a discussion about it

What you're doing is ok by me, I know I sound a lil paranoid but others will not go the route that you did and instead head to social media and pretend like the world in on fire... you all know who I'm talkin' about.
I've said my peace and i'll leave it at that.

 

[GAV]

One thing I'm wondering about the MB roll as a defensive tool to counter the offensive roll. Since it cost a bar and the recovery is silly, if they roll towards you your reaction is to roll away. It costs you both one bar but in a way you are resetting the position. If they needed the meter now they are 3/4 away again with a bar less.

Obviously I can't mess around with it atm but something for you beta guys to play around with defensively.

The question is then - who is more and less meter dependent? That's going to play a much bigger part in tiering.

 

[GAV]

Idk, it seems more or less like a safe-ish run mechanic. And the distance seems to be the same, so if you roll near them, you'll end up too far to do anything. I've tried using it in match and have played others that have, and all it really seems to do is stop the momentum in a safe, meter dependent way.

You can react by checking them on recovery, so it's not like it's really all that get in for free. You waste a bar for putting yourself into blocking pressure if you don't get punished instead. Everyone in the beta so far is so meter dependent though as they are. It doesn't look like it'll see THAT much use when you have better things to spend meter on. At least from what's been tested

Last I checked, running doesn't cost meter.

 

[SaltShaker]

How can you have a "reasonable" discussion about changing a move when you simply do not have the means to test the move in question in the context of a fully fleshed out released game.
Any conclusion you draw based on the things you find in this beta might be null and void when the game is up for grabs on store shelves.
So again I must ask why is the community so desperate to cry "save the zoners from this wretched move" when there's not a SINGLE zoning character present in the beta???
I have minimal interest in IJ2 but I saw what happened BEFORE MKX launched with SZ losing klone on block because people we're crying their lungs out.

All I'm saying is just maybe wait before this "reasonable" conversation fucks up a move and you all end up getting zoned a-la Kenshi again

This logic can be used both ways.

There were many saying that the run would be a huge detriment to the zoning aspects of MKX prerelease or that the + frames on pressure needed to be toned down, and some who said "let's wait and see how it plays out". Clearly with NRS taking action to reduce much of this through patches it could have been brought to awareness early on as a problem.

This seems like the primary reason the beta was given out to so many top players. For them to give feedback on the balance.

 

[Espio]

Aquaman. Dooomsday.

Hawkgirl quite literally controlled the skies against every character's dumb jump normal I can think of as well with her down 2.

 

[colt]

pro-tip: hit the throw button

 

[SaltShaker]

MB Roll confirmed staying as is. -.-

 

[CrazyFingers]

MB Roll confirmed staying as is. -.-

The game isn't even out yet, be patient we know like nothing.

 

[SaltShaker]

The game isn't even out yet, be patient we know like nothing.

Nah I'm just joking because of Paulo's "just throw bruh" comment. I do think the recovery is a little much from watching, but I wanna try methods to counter when I can test it out before jumping to conclusion.

 

[Tweedy]

I don't know what thread to make this comment in so i'm making it in here.

The game looks like it took as much from MKX as it took from the first Injustice, and it seems like Sonic shares that same sentiment. The counterpoking and wake up systems are very good on MKX imo, so i'm glad those are the things that stuck around, or at least, according to Sonic they did.

 

[Rude]

The Great MB Roll Scare Begins...

 

[StiggyWiggs]

Remember the MB throw scare before MKX?? Good times...

 

[Dankster Morgan]

None of the characters in the beta are designated zoners though right? Maybe the actual zoning characters will have ways to deal with mb roll.

 

[MadPropz101]

It needs to stay as it is.

 

[M2Dave]

The community has just finished playing one of the least zoning-friendly fighting games ever made. LOL. How much worse can things really get? Personally, I am not concerned about MB roll, which I hope only exists to prevent match ups like Zod vs. Lex Luthor.

Traditional zoning is non-existent in modern fighting games anyway. You have to play hybrid characters.