Let's talk about the MB roll mechanic.

[Paul the Octopus]

Can the meter burn roll be done on reaction to projectiles or do you have to guess?

If it can only be done on a guess, it doesn't sound that bad, even with limited recovery.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Can the meter burn roll be done on reaction to projectiles or do you have to guess?

If it can only be done on a guess, it doesn't sound that bad, even with limited recovery.

It doesn't have immediate invincible frames so you can not react with it. (I'm assuming I don't have the beta)

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Good point but air teching is full combo punishable if baited. The roll? if you bait it you can't punish it. That's all im asking for... if I read it or react to it I want to be able to punish it.

But you can. You act like it's literally impossible to punish it. If you bait it or read it the least you'll get is it being your turn again. All they would have to do is make it so you can throw the opponent out of it, there is no reason it should be 2 bars.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Well yeah it's punishable if you do it when the opponent expects it and is basically in the BEST position to punish you. It won't happen like that.

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to see superman jump, walk up a bit, wait for him to air laser, MB roll on reaction and anti air or combo him on his recovery on the ground.

Like I'm just imagining how different Injustice 1 would be with this in it. Even a perfectly tiger knee'd Oa's rocket by lantern would probably get punished by this roll, that's how strong it is looking. I could be wrong because I don't have a code but this is me just eyeballing it.

You won't have to be in the exact position if you can throw them out of it which is what I advocated. You can't react to projectiles with this because the invincibility frames aren't instant.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Idk, it seems more or less like a safe-ish run mechanic. And the distance seems to be the same, so if you roll near them, you'll end up too far to do anything. I've tried using it in match and have played others that have, and all it really seems to do is stop the momentum in a safe, meter dependent way.

You can react by checking them on recovery, so it's not like it's really all that get in for free. You waste a bar for putting yourself into blocking pressure if you don't get punished instead. Everyone in the beta so far is so meter dependent though as they are. It doesn't look like it'll see THAT much use when you have better things to spend meter on. At least from what's been tested

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

It already is full combo punishable.
It's not a 'free getin' it costs 1 bar and is unsafe

I'm fine with them making the roll being able to be punished with a throw but it should not be made weaker. You said it yourself, the game is at its best when different character archetypes all get a chance to be good. In injustice it's no question that zoning dominates the game and the mb roll is what enables rushdown characters the means to possibly win. I see nothing wrong with the roll

I have not seen proof or found in my testing that it is punishable. Will have to test more tonight.

And rush down characters that get this kind of mobility will dominate the game, not zoning. Like I said, imagine lex with this and armor.

 

[KingHippo]

Seeing as how you have to dash, see your dash startup, then MB to get the dash to turn into a roll, there is no way this will be done on reaction unless you are fulllllll screen. Imagine going through Batarang or Supergirl laser on reaction mid screen. Not a chance.

Considering invincible wakeups are back, delayed getup is back, backdashes are still invincible, and you can do an air ukemi with two different distances, defense will probably be fine. The biggest change to defense that I don't see people mentioning yet is that amongst the four characters, walking forward is significantly faster than walking back, and dashes are not nearly as good in recovery both forward and back.

Also, consider how much easier it is to AA. Fuudo for thought.

 

[SaltShaker]

Seeing as how you have to dash, see your dash startup, then MB to get the dash to turn into a roll, there is no way this will be done on reaction unless you are fulllllll screen. Imagine going through Batarang or Supergirl laser on reaction mid screen. Not a chance.

Considering invincible wakeups are back, delayed getup is back, backdashes are still invincible, and you can do an air ukemi with two different distances, defense will probably be fine. The biggest change to defense that I don't see people mentioning yet is that amongst the four characters, walking forward is significantly faster than walking back, and dashes are not nearly as good in recovery both forward and back.

Also, consider how much easier it is to AA. Fuudo for thought.

I heard REO on stream last night saying that there was no delayed wake ups in Inj2. This is wrong? Would be pretty good to have.

The dash recoveries are probably a good change too. Some characters could double and triple dash effortlessly in Inj1 lol. But I guess it works against back dash so I dunno. Hadn't noticed the walk speed stuff. Good eye. I'm gonna look out for that.

AA's though? Not worth mentioning as an improvement imo since in Inj1 you could always AA effectively and easily, unlike the game one shall not mention.

 

[16 Bit]

Delay wakeup is done by holding flip stance.

 

[SaltShaker]

Delay wakeup is done by holding flip stance.

Ahhh ok. Big improvement in the change in buttons imo. I think a few people streaming the beta didn't know this lol. Slayer and REO for sure. Good to know.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Seeing as how you have to dash, see your dash startup, then MB to get the dash to turn into a roll, there is no way this will be done on reaction unless you are fulllllll screen. Imagine going through Batarang or Supergirl laser on reaction mid screen. Not a chance.

Considering invincible wakeups are back, delayed getup is back, backdashes are still invincible, and you can do an air ukemi with two different distances, defense will probably be fine. The biggest change to defense that I don't see people mentioning yet is that amongst the four characters, walking forward is significantly faster than walking back, and dashes are not nearly as good in recovery both forward and back.

Also, consider how much easier it is to AA. Fuudo for thought.

Good points.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Delay wakeup is done by holding flip stance.

Holy crap didn't know this.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Delay wakeup is done by holding flip stance.

@STORMS

 

[KingHippo]

AA's though? Not worth mentioning as an improvement imo since in Inj1 you could always AA effectively and easily, unlike the game one shall not mention.

Well it's two things:

1. I dunno which, but d2's have more recovery or b3's have more startup because the halcyon days of doing d2 > b3 > big combo are gone, at least for these chars. You'll get a combo but you're burning bar to do it

2. Even the best jump attacks are losing to d2 if hit right in front. Batman j2 and Supergirl j1 will probably lose to even a Batman d2 properly timed. Crossups are another story, but I think the times of Batman doing blockstring pressure into j2 over and over again are probably done

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I have not seen proof or found in my testing that it is punishable. Will have to test more tonight.

And rush down characters that get this kind of mobility will dominate the game, not zoning. Like I said, imagine lex with this and armor.

Never said that zoners will benefit from this. I said that rushdown players will benefit from this and it is fair because the zoning in injustice is very good

 

[SaltShaker]

Well it's two things:

1. I dunno which, but d2's have more recovery or b3's have more startup because the halcyon days of doing d2 > b3 > big combo are gone, at least for these chars. You'll get a combo but you're burning bar to do it

2. Even the best jump attacks are losing to d2 if hit right in front. Batman j2 and Supergirl j1 will probably lose to even a Batman d2 properly timed. Crossups are another story, but I think the times of Batman doing blockstring pressure into j2 over and over again are probably done

Serious?? Wow lol. I take back my comment then. That's actually really good of a change. Didn't expect it to end up that strong but sounds very positive imo.

I agree then, I'm surprised these aspects aren't been talked about a bit more. Big game changes. Most of the feedback has been character specific stuff for now as far as the discussions on play.

 

[KingHippo]

Well, there is needless controversy to kick up and storylines needing to be woven before the game starts, so no, we will not be getting in depth talk for a while. But hey, this was fun, right?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

2 bars for mobility and a potential non-guaranteed punish seems a bit extreme.

If you're burning the bar for mobility you won't have it for damage (or later for clash), which seems fair).

Either way, calling for nerfs after one day without playing a ton of sets that heavily feature the roll is premature. The game might be balanced around it -- so let's see what the zoning characters' full toolsets are first. Otherwise there's no context.

 

[CrazyFingers]

2 bars for mobility and a potential non-guaranteed punish seems a bit extreme.

If you're burning the bar for mobility you won't have it for damage (or later for clash), which seems fair).

Either way, calling for nerfs after one day without playing a ton of sets that heavily feature the roll is premature. The game might be balanced around it -- so let's see what the zoning characters' full toolsets are first, otherwise there's no context.

He's got a point, all we have are a bunch of hybrid characters. We don't have a dedicated zoner to see how the roll truly effective is.

 

[RVB]

Two questions...
The game is not even out yet and people are already complaining?
Can this damn community WAIT for once and then pass judgement on what needs to be adjusted or not???

 

[Rude]

I heard REO on stream last night saying that there was no delayed wake ups in Inj2. This is wrong? Would be pretty good to have.

The dash recoveries are probably a good change too. Some characters could double and triple dash effortlessly in Inj1 lol. But I guess it works against back dash so I dunno. Hadn't noticed the walk speed stuff. Good eye. I'm gonna look out for that.

AA's though? Not worth mentioning as an improvement imo since in Inj1 you could always AA effectively and easily, unlike the game one shall not mention.

I'm sorry Salt, but that's very misleading. There were several very strong jump in attacks in Injustice.

 

[Gamer68]

I'm really glad these are in the game. With so many long and damaging combos, it's nice having more ways to get out of them instead of just relying off of the single clash you get.

 

[Rabbit]

- when done at the right ranges it can cause attempted check/punishes to face the wrong way bc the MB roll crossing you up

this is what i'm most concerned about with mb roll.

in the REO v Slayer video they mention that it seems superman's mb roll covers a different distance than supergirl's (maybe it has something to do with different dash distances).
if that's the case it's going to be hard to tell if the mb roll is going to cross up based on spacing which would be a pretty big pain if you have to change the timing on the punish because your character has to turn around.

i'm hoping to see more testing on it to see how hard/easy it is to get ambiguous crossups with mb roll and to see if d1 punishes are more consistent than using starter strings.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Never said that zoners will benefit from this. I said that rushdown players will benefit from this and it is fair because the zoning in injustice is very good

predator zoning was very good BUT the game play mechanics made it not really matter vs many many variations. namely the high mobility and small screens in mkx. injustice zoning is def better but if there is a mechanic that makes it not matter as much, is the zoning really that good? nope. all I can tell you is to play vs batgirl/mmh with zod or sinestro. you cannot zone in those matches bc of their MB roll like teleports, you have to rush down

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Two questions...
The game is not even out yet and people are already complaining?
Can this damn community WAIT for once and then pass judgement on what needs to be adjusted or not???

No need for this type of commentary dude. Not one person is complaining. We are discussing. The beta is out... should we not talk about it at all? We are discussing the facts of the move as it is in the beta... not passing judgement. I have made a cognizant effort not to bias the discussion.