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Street Fighter V General Discussion

FL Rushdown

Champion
Idk i just think that any 6-4 guile has, Ryu shares as well.

And if he doesnt, it's against gief who already struggles anyway.

I'd take a bunch of 6-4s in my favor and a 5-5 v gief who isn't amazing anyway as opposed to having the character who counters the relatively weak gief.
ryu doesn't 6-4 a lot of people in this game. If I had to list em it's probably juri, ibuki, and fang. That's it. He goes pretty even or slightly loses to pretty much every other member of the cast.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
@FL Rushdown maybe a quicker path towards a concensus is to ask: What dirt do you believe guile has in comparison to Ryu that makes him stronger or easier to win with than ryu?

I gave specifics and you've given generalities so far. I'm just curious how you see it?
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
@FL Rushdown maybe a quicker path towards a concensus is to ask: What dirt do you believe guile has in comparison to Ryu that makes him stronger or easier to win with than ryu?

I gave specifics and you've given generalities so far. I'm just curious how you see it?
i never said guile on average was easier to win with than ryu. I just said ryu is not an easy character to win with when compared to the cast as a whole. I was just saying that guile will by design always have a handful of matchups that are "gimmes" and easier than any matchup ryu has. He also has a fair share of harder matchups. As for dirt guile has. Slow trigger boom is probably the strongest advancing move in the game, and ex boom is probably the best space controller out there. He's also got the only non reversible chip out in the game.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
i never said guile on average was easier or easy to win with than ryu. I just said ryu is not an easy character to win with when compared to the cast as a whole. I was just saying that guile will by design always have a handful of matchups that are "gimmes" and easier than any matchup ryu has. He also has a fair share of harder matchups. As for dirt guile has. Slow trigger boom is probably the strongest advancing move in the game, and ex boom is probably the best space controller out there. He's also got the only non reversible chip out in the game.
Who do you think has to work LESS than Ryu to win? In your opinion?
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
i never said guile on average was easier to win with than ryu. I just said ryu is not an easy character to win with when compared to the cast as a whole. I was just saying that guile will by design always have a handful of matchups that are "gimmes" and easier than any matchup ryu has. He also has a fair share of harder matchups. As for dirt guile has. Slow trigger boom is probably the strongest advancing move in the game, and ex boom is probably the best space controller out there. He's also got the only non reversible chip out in the game.
Between having a relatively similar fireball game in 5 (not true in 4), a better meterless reversals, better buttons, and not bring restricted by charge requirements (ppl who don't play charge characters forget this) I would say that ryu controls space as well as guile.

And that's just the space control/zoning aspect. Ryu also has Rushdown to compliment his spacing prowess.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
define what you mean by work.
Who controls the pacing of a match (aka who decides what "game" theyre playing) worse than Ryu?
Who plays less proactively and more reactively than Ryu?
Who has less tools than Ryu to deal with any MU/playstile?

*Ryu is #3 on my personal tier list*
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
Between having a relatively similar fireball game in 5 (not true in 4), a better meterless reversals, better buttons, and not bring restricted by charge requirements (ppl who don't play charge characters forget this) I would say that ryu controls space as well as guile.

And that's just the space control/zoning aspect. Ryu also has Rushdown to compliment his spacing prowess.
ryus fireballs are not comparable to guiles. They take about 25% longer to throw and recover so it's comparable to a having a 3 frame jab when ryu has a 4 frame one. He's also got better projectile speeds slower than ryus slowest and faster than his fastest. As for better buttons I'd say st no is better than anything guile has but it's also relatively useless in neutral it's a pressure tool. Cr mp/mk are pretty good but comparable to guiles buttons.

I'm NOT saying guile is better than ryu, I'm just saying you're foolish if you think outplaying your opponent with ryu is somehow easier than doing it with the rest of the cast.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
ryus fireballs are not comparable to guiles. They take about 25% longer to throw and recover so it's comparable to a having a 3 frame jab when ryu has a 4 frame one. He's also got better projectile speeds slower than ryus slowest and faster than his fastest. As for better buttons I'd say st no is better than anything guile has but it's also relatively useless in neutral it's a pressure tool. Cr mp/mk are pretty good but comparable to guiles buttons.

I'm NOT saying guile is better than ryu, I'm just saying you're foolish if you think outplaying your opponent with ryu is somehow easier than doing it with the rest of the cast.
No character makes it easier to outplay another player. But Ryu will give you more reward than guile for doing so, I think.

Funny you should use the jab metaphor because guiles IS 4 frames compared to Ryus 3 framer. I digress.

Yes his fireball is slightly faster. But, like I mentioned, it requires charge. In addition, your anti air reversal is more consistent for stopping jump overs. Which, even if guile recovers slightly faster (I don't have my frame data available to me atm) Ryus recovery is plenty to still block an on-reaction to fireball jump over.
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
Who controls the pacing of a match (aka who decides what "game" theyre playing) worse than Ryu?
Who plays less proactively and more reactively than Ryu?
Who has less tools than Ryu to deal with any MU/playstile?

*Ryu is #3 on my personal tier list*
ryu almost never decides the pace of the match. He plays to his opponents weaknesses and avoids their strengths. It's why he's a balanced character. You stay away from Mika and get in on guile(assuming you can exert your will on your opponent which is reliant entirely on outplaying them not using some op toolset).

Ryu is one of the most reactive characters in the game, it's why he's good. Sure he can jump in and brawl but there's a reason tokido/daigo have stopped doing that and moved towards a more laid back defensive style.

Ryu has a bunch of solid tools, but none of them are the best at what they do. His fireball is good, but punishable on reaction by a lot of the cast or just plain unsafe at a lot of ranges. His tatsu is great for blowing up throws/projectiles but it's also only usable on a read and full combo punishable, his dp is pretty great(imo it's worse than kens but hey it's invincible and meterless) but there's counterplay there too in the form of crush counters.

Ryu is #2 on my list, but I don't think that makes him easy to win with.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Ryu is stronger than Guile.

Idk if there is too much room for debate here. That said, nobody is saying Ryu =a free win.

If you're bad and you play Guile, switching to Ryu will not make you good.

I'm not judging you for playing Ryu. Good on you. Probably a smart decision.
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
Ryu is stronger than Guile.

Idk if there is too much room for debate here. That said, nobody is saying Ryu =a free win.

If you're bad and you play Guile, switching to Ryu will not make you good.

I'm not judging you for playing Ryu. Good on you. Probably a smart decision.
ryu is stronger than guile in a vacuum, that's absolutely true and I've said as much many times. I do however think you're selling guile a little short when you say anything guile can do ryu can do.

Im curious why you think nuckledu picked guile vs Tokido instead of his Nash/Mika. Is it because guile wins that matchup? I think it is. This is pretty irrelevant to the discussion but I'm curious how you think that matchup plays out.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
wait hold on u guise i thought about it and that last perfect i posted wont impress lionbae the combo i did was lame it was a ryu player combo

pretend i didnt post that one here's how the general really p's on these bums :cool:

 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
ryu is stronger than guile in a vacuum, that's absolutely true and I've said as much many times. I do however think you're selling guile a little short when you say anything guile can do ryu can do.

Im curious why you think nuckledu picked guile vs Tokido instead of his Nash/Mika. Is it because guile wins that matchup? I think it is. This is pretty irrelevant to the discussion but I'm curious how you think that matchup plays out.
Oh I definitely agree that Guile fairs better in the Ryu matchup than Mika. No doubt.
 

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
I guess Ryu is honest in the sense that if you block you won't get hit and take 200+ damage into guaranteed axe kick, safe jump etc.

If you tech the throw you won't get throw looped and If you jump you'll punish a fireball. The epitome of honest