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General/Other - Kenshi Kenshi General Discussion Thread

Tweedy

Champion
According to @Pig Of The Hut, Mileena, Scorpion, Displacer, Mystic and potential Quan Chi, Kano and Sun God. Rest are 5- or better matchups. I kind of agree with him after playing Possessed for a while. Outside of the names he mentioned, the rest are pretty even.
I talked to Pig and we both agree that Crystalline slightly beats Possessed.

Mileena is a 3-7 easily, Mystic and Displacer are ugly as well.

Scorpion has a lot of things going for him against Kenshi and specifically Possessed, however, after playing this match up a ton, I don't know if it's any worse than 6-4.

Haven't played any great Quan's or Kano's extensively.

Liu Kang feels like a 5-5. He beats Sub Zero Grandmaster, Unbreakable is 5-5 for sure I think.

Cassie is a match up that I want to play more. I know you can't teleport on her because of flip kick. She even blows up 42 teleport.

He beats Goro and Jax I think.

He could go even with Jason.

My thoughts so far.

Edit: I just mentioned stuff I've played somewhat extensively. Pig told me to play a Sonya, which I haven't done yet. A lot of work to do before NEC.
 

SpecOps2013

Mortal
I talked to Pig and we both agree that Crystalline slightly beats Possessed.

Mileena is a 3-7 easily, Mystic and Displacer are ugly as well.

Scorpion has a lot of things going for him against Kenshi and specifically Possessed, however, after playing this match up a ton, I don't know if it's any worse than 6-4.

Haven't played any great Quan's or Kano's extensively.

Liu Kang feels like a 5-5. He beats Sub Zero Grandmaster, Unbreakable is 5-5 for sure I think.

Cassie is a match up that I want to play more. I know you can't teleport on her because of flip kick. She even blows up 42 teleport.

He beats Goro and Jax I think.

He could go even with Jason.

My thoughts so far.

Edit: I just mentioned stuff I've played somewhat extensively. Pig told me to play a Sonya, which I haven't done yet. A lot of work to do before NEC.
so in ur opinion, is possessed top 10?
 

Tweedy

Champion
I'm not even sure if Possessed is top 15.

I think a lot of it is bad MU knowledge and how balanced the game is now. You don't even need a top 15 character to do well.

Possessed is one of those characters, where if you don't know the match up... lol

I've bulldozed good players in long sets who didn't know how to deal with stuff like 42 teleport, or fuzzying the demon specials.

He could totally be top 15, though. When Tarkatan first came out, I didn't know if he was top 5 until Reo found the medium delay tech. I just feel like Possessed has too many bad match ups, in comparison to a chunk of the cast.

Sadly my hardest opponent in the Kombat cup today would have been Sylverrye. Liu Kang is very manageable, and I was unable to play. One of these weeks i'll showcase the blindman in top 8.
 

Jack Burton

Apprentice
Possessed's DB1 is so pointless.

Why would you make a read and anti air with a move that does 9%? I mean the move is 16 frames, it's not like you're going to react with it in most cases. Why not just NJP or S1 and get 36% for a bar?
Sickle Lift isn't meant to be used as an anti-air in the current patch. It's best used to end your combos with since it gives you a hard knockdown of 24 frames and it gives Kenshi enough time to reposition himself, stay close to the opponent after a successful combo, or bait a reversal. For example, you can make certain wake up attacks whiff if you run immediately after the knockdown and do a crossover punch to make the opponent's wake up attack whiff, then you can punish. BF3 can be used for this purpose as well if you wanted the opponent to stay closer to you after a combo.
 

Tweedy

Champion
I think an issue with Balanced and with Kenjutsu as well, is how below average Kenshi's sweep range footsies are. His B1 and D4 are a little too slow.

The problem is that if they gave Kenshi Kung Lao's D4, and made his B1 11 frames, Possessed would probably be top 5 and hella complained about.

At least Balanced has good launching armo....... Oh wait :(
 

DC4-3

Low tier button masher.
Why is his S2(a 9 frame high) -14 on block and 30-something recovery? It's as fast as his S1 and has a bigger hit box but the frames are too bad to AA with it.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I think an issue with Balanced and with Kenjutsu as well, is how below average Kenshi's sweep range footsies are. His B1 and D4 are a little too slow.

The problem is that if they gave Kenshi Kung Lao's D4, and made his B1 11 frames, Possessed would probably be top 5 and hella complained about.

At least Balanced has good launching armo....... Oh wait :(
Balanced gets his main threatening tool removed (nrs didn't even bother to apply 2 bar treatment, or change it so you can only do a teleflurry after). Just removed it.
Meanwhile, Unbreakable sub keeps his 1 bar fullscreen low armored launcher while getting substantial buffs. Logic.

B1 is ok imo, d4 could get some love though.
 

Jack Burton

Apprentice
I think an issue with Balanced and with Kenjutsu as well, is how below average Kenshi's sweep range footsies are. His B1 and D4 are a little too slow.

The problem is that if they gave Kenshi Kung Lao's D4, and made his B1 11 frames, Possessed would probably be top 5 and hella complained about.

At least Balanced has good launching armo....... Oh wait :(
I agree his D4 could use a faster start up, maybe at 11 frames. But I think people don't realize that Kenshi gets a lot of frame advantage off of his D4 on hit (at 23 frames, that's one frame more than Johnny Cage's D4). On a hit confirm you can jail to (run) S1, (run) S2, another D4, Teleflurry ( no running needed), Spirit Push (any variation), etc. Once the opponent starts commits to block you can start Kenshi's throw game. It gets even better if you can hit confirm 11, 21 into a pop up or end the string with a safe special on block. And staggering your throws are essential.
 

Tweedy

Champion
I agree his D4 could use a faster start up, maybe at 11 frames. But I think people don't realize that Kenshi gets a lot of frame advantage off of his D4 on hit (at 23 frames, that's one frame more than Johnny Cage's D4). On a hit confirm you can jail to (run) S1, (run) S2, another D4, Teleflurry ( no running needed), Spirit Push (any variation), etc. Once the opponent starts commits to block you can start Kenshi's throw game. It gets even better if you can hit confirm 11, 21 into a pop up or end the string with a safe special on block. And staggering your throws are essential.
I mean that's a pretty much universal thing. Lao can jail F2 off of his D4, Shinnok can jail F4. Outside of Scorpion and Sub Zero, most great D4s have enough hit advantage to work with.
 
@Tweedy using possessed it is not a big deal but have you used balanced at all? B1 is an amazing button. Are you able to consistently hit confirm it to rising karma? Have not been to consistent with it. I think there was a pre patch options select that doesn't work anymore.
 

Tweedy

Champion
@Tweedy using possessed it is not a big deal but have you used balanced at all? B1 is an amazing button. Are you able to consistently hit confirm it to rising karma? Have not been to consistent with it. I think there was a pre patch options select that doesn't work anymore.
Nah I can't hit confirm B1 into EX low demon. I'm assuming it's the same with rising karma.

I know B1 is good, i'm just comparing it to some 11 frame mids.
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
@Tweedy using possessed it is not a big deal but have you used balanced at all? B1 is an amazing button. Are you able to consistently hit confirm it to rising karma? Have not been to consistent with it. I think there was a pre patch options select that doesn't work anymore.
Post patch with Balanced you wanna do b1 ex rising karma if you're fishing for a combo, it's safe now and leads to great damage. Feels like a waste of meter and B1 is great on hit anyway but sometimes it's worth it, like primarily when you're not worried about breaking.
 

Jack Burton

Apprentice
Post patch with Balanced you wanna do b1 ex rising karma if you're fishing for a combo, it's safe now and leads to great damage. Feels like a waste of meter and B1 is great on hit anyway but sometimes it's worth it, like primarily when you're not worried about breaking.
I like F21 better because you can hit-confirm F21, it has better recovery than B1 so you can sneak throws after the string better than B1 and once the opponent thinks you're going for a throw after F21 you can end the string with Ex Raising Karma to full combo or keep the string safe. Unless you're the second coming of Jesus you're not hit-confirming B1 into anything.
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
I like F21 better because you can hit-confirm F21, it has better recovery than B1 so you can sneak throws after the string better than B1 and once the opponent thinks you're going for a throw after F21 you can end the string with Ex Raising Karma to full combo or keep the string safe. Unless you're the second coming of Jesus you're not hit-confirming B1 into anything.
Hey I love f2 as much as the next guy but its a high and slower than b1. Way less helpful in mkx since a Lot of footsies is played with d4s and d1s. Plus, while walking backwards you can just hit b1 and get it, if you're walking back and hit f2 you either get push or stopped long enough to lose the element of surprise in my experience.
 

Jack Burton

Apprentice
Hey I love f2 as much as the next guy but its a high and slower than b1. Way less helpful in mkx since a Lot of footsies is played with d4s and d1s. Plus, while walking backwards you can just hit b1 and get it, if you're walking back and hit f2 you either get push or stopped long enough to lose the element of surprise in my experience.
F2 is actually a (very) low profile-able mid, lol (wish NRS would buff the hitbox on it). But I see your point and agree with them. But I do have some success with using F21 in the matches I've played and I admit I'm careful of the situations I use it in, but my main normal of choice is D4 for footsies, among a few others.