Street Fighter V General Discussion

[FL Rushdown]

Neither one was even close to Alex's tier. And then they even nerfed T Hawk when he was already ass tier. He ended up sub-ass tier.

And Guy was buns against command grabs but 7-3 is a stretch. Those two had some matchups that wish they were 7-3 though lol.

it was at least 7-3. Guy didn't have a single run cancel that wasn't straight up punishable by spd. Every button he had up close except close st mk was punishable by spd unless it was a light. There's a reason that mark teddy had beat everyone at wnf at least once except for snake eyes. Literally had to try to win the the matches with st hk only.

Also Hugo vs gouken was imo the worst matchup in the game. Except for maybe gouken vs rolento. Hilarious to watch Hugo get hit by the mid fireballs at half screen just for standing.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

it was at least 7-3. Guy didn't have a single run cancel that wasn't straight up punishable by spd. Every button he had up close except close st mk was punishable by spd unless it was a light. There's a reason that mark teddy had beat everyone at wnf at least once except for snake eyes. Literally had to try to win the the matches with st hk only.

Also Hugo vs gouken was imo the worst matchup in the game. Except for maybe gouken vs rolento. Hilarious to watch Hugo get hit by the mid fireballs at half screen just for standing.

Gief was in a different league though, but we can def agree that Guy struggled against grapplers in general and call it a day.

And lol that matchup was soooo booty-butt cheeks but T Hawk vs Blanka might have even been worse somehow. They both had more than their fair share of pure shit match-ups so a potentially high-mid tier grappler in this game would be a godsend by comparison lol.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Gief was in a different league though, but we can def agree that Guy struggled against grapplers in general and call it a day.

And lol that matchup was soooo booty-butt cheeks but T Hawk vs Blanka might have even been worse somehow. They both had more than their fair share of pure shit match-ups so a potentially high-mid tier grappler in this game would be a godsend by comparison lol.

yeah. I think the wide variety of characters in 4 created a balanced game with a lot more unbalanced matchups. If that makes any sense lol.

Also if you play Mika you can have a high tier grappler, and if you played gief in 4 you'd have a pretty solid one too.

 

[Qwark28]

it was at least 7-3. Guy didn't have a single run cancel that wasn't straight up punishable by spd. Every button he had up close except close st mk was punishable by spd unless it was a light. There's a reason that mark teddy had beat everyone at wnf at least once except for snake eyes. Literally had to try to win the the matches with st hk only.

Also Hugo vs gouken was imo the worst matchup in the game. Except for maybe gouken vs rolento. Hilarious to watch Hugo get hit by the mid fireballs at half screen just for standing.

@LionHeart
@stoyan

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

yeah. I think the wide variety of characters in 4 created a balanced game with a lot more unbalanced matchups. If that makes any sense lol.

Also if you play Mika you can have a high tier grappler, and if you played gief in 4 you'd have a pretty solid one too.

True and true. Might pick her up but I do like Alex so far. Gief is super fun too. It's nice to have actual grapplers instead of whatever the fuck NRS is trying to do slapping command grabs on whoever in MK lol.

 

[super mario]

Lets break this down, you reset into a low activate, do another low into clothesline which doesn't combo giving me 3 opportunities to block one is punishable. Furthermore, where is the 50/50? the only time I would not be blocking low in this situation is if I would die from your overhead chop. However if i'm that low you could simply just activate from lariat and kill me regardless.

Mixup is a strategy or technique of making one's attacks more difficult to predict. In 2D fighting games such as Street Fighter or The King Of Fighters, it typically involves using Low attacks, Overhead attacks, Throw attacks, and generally any assortment of attacks which require different actions from the opponent in order to defend against them. Mixups become more effective as the variety and complexity of the required defenses increases, and as the amount of time available to react decreases. When used in a pressure string, mixup can allow a player to connect a combo or score a knockdown to continue the pressure if his opponent fails to correctly guess what to do, how to evade/counterattack or where to block.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games

 

[JJvercetti]

Mixup is a strategy or technique of making one's attacks more difficult to predict. In 2D fighting games such as Street Fighter or The King Of Fighters, it typically involves using Low attacks, Overhead attacks, Throw attacks, and generally any assortment of attacks which require different actions from the opponent in order to defend against them. Mixups become more effective as the variety and complexity of the required defenses increases, and as the amount of time available to react decreases. When used in a pressure string, mixup can allow a player to connect a combo or score a knockdown to continue the pressure if his opponent fails to correctly guess what to do, how to evade/counterattack or where to block.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games

Where was the mixup though?

 

[super mario]

Where was the mixup though?

i did a high attack then did a few mid attacks did a low attack and did a combo into throw.

the mixup is the high to low and then the combo into throw.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

i did a high attack then did a few mid attacks did a low attack and did a combo into throw.

the mixup is the high to low and then the combo into throw.

Highs can be crouch-blocked just like lows. High/low mix-ups only occur between overheads and lows. And nobody has any reason to fear Alex's overhead.

In the video you posted your opponent would have to let go of their controller in order to be hit by even half of what you did. And the throw at the end is irrelevant because it's part of the combo.

If this is your first fighting game that's totally cool and we're here to help you better understand the way they work.

 

[Rip Torn]

i did a high attack then did a few mid attacks did a low attack and did a combo into throw.

the mixup is the high to low and then the combo into throw.

The problem with your "mixup/reset" is that even if they get hit by the low, it's not gonna combo into the clothesline, so they are just gonna block that and you are gonna get punished hard because that's -8. It's a very bad idea to do this because you are basically putting yourself in a loose/loose situation where you can't possibly benefit unless your opponent is just mashing for the sake of mashing.

Most likely, someone who just got hit, if they are anywhere near decent at fighting games, will start blocking - and that's why this reset is a bad idea. You give them the idea that they should block, then you do something really unsafe on block.

 

[super mario]

Highs can be crouch-blocked just like lows. High/low mix-ups only occur between overheads and lows. And nobody has any reason to fear Alex's overhead.

In the video you posted your opponent would have to let go of their controller in order to be hit by even half of what you did. And the throw at the end is irrelevant because it's part of the combo.

If this is your first fighting game that's totally cool and we're here to help you better understand the way they work.

then what is a mixup ?

 

[JJvercetti]

i did a high attack then did a few mid attacks did a low attack and did a combo into throw.

the mixup is the high to low and then the combo into throw.

The thing is that if you want to make your opponent guess, you ideally want to do it with a button that is highly plus like Alex's lariat which I think is +3, from there they would have to guess whether you are going to throw or catch them pressing buttons in which you would go for a combo into that flash chop thing.

 

[super mario]

The thing is that if you want to make your opponent guess, you ideally want to do it with a button that is highly plus like Alex's lariat which I think is +3, from there they would have to guess whether you are going to throw or catch them pressing buttons in which you would go for a combo into that flash chop thing.

so basically what u saying is i did a mixup technically speaking but not a good one.

 

[super mario]

The problem with your "mixup/reset" is that even if they get hit by the low, it's not gonna combo into the clothesline, so they are just gonna block that and you are gonna get punished hard because that's -8. It's a very bad idea to do this because you are basically putting yourself in a loose/loose situation where you can't possibly benefit unless your opponent is just mashing for the sake of mashing.

Most likely, someone who just got hit, if they are anywhere near decent at fighting games, will start blocking - and that's why this reset is a bad idea. You give them the idea that they should block, then you do something really unsafe on block.

so basically what u saying is i did a mixup technically speaking but not a good one.

same thing i said to jjvercetti

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

then what is a mixup ?

A mix-up occurs when the opponent has to guess whether they need to block high or low. In your situation there's no need to block high, and plenty of opportunities to block low because hardly any of that comboed.

High, mid, and low attacks can all be defended against with low blocks. The only time a mix-up comes into play is when an overhead attack forces a high block and they have to guess if you're going to do that or go low. Alex has an overhead with f+mp but it isn't good and leads to nothing, so Alex doesn't have much high-low mix-up potential.

His mix-up game comes into play off his plus frames when you have to guess if he's going to command grab you or throw out more normals. But if you go for the normals you want them to combo. Low poke into v trigger activation into low poke into sledgehammer, none of which combos, wouldn't even work against a quadriplegic player.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

so basically what u saying is i did a mixup technically speaking but not a good one.

same thing i said to jjvercetti

There was no mix-up there. A real opponent would have low blocked all of that and punished you badly.

And worse yet, even if you did catch someone sleeping at the wheel and caught them with that first low somehow, they'd immediately wake up with plenty of time to block your next low after that entire v trigger activation freeze frame since it didn't combo.

And worst of all, even if they dropped their controller and somehow didn't block either low, they'd have picked it up in time to block the follow up sledgehammer and punished you for that.

 

[super mario]

A mix-up occurs when the opponent has to guess whether they need to block high or low. In your situation there's no need to block high, and plenty of opportunities to block low because hardly any of that comboed.

High, mid, and low attacks can all be defended against with low blocks. The only time a mix-up comes into play is when an overhead attack forces a high block and they have to guess if you're going to do that or go low. Alex has an overhead with f+mp but it isn't good and leads to nothing, so Alex doesn't have much high-low mix-up potential.

His mix-up game comes into play off his plus frames when you have to guess if he's going to command grab you or throw out more normals. But if you go for the normals you want them to combo. Low poke into v trigger activation into low poke into sledgehammer, none of which combos, wouldn't even work against a quadriplegic player.

u have to block high attacks like overheads and normal jump in attacks high if im correct
and most crouching kicks u have to block low.

and normal standing moves and normal crouching punches u can either block high or low.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

u have to block high attacks like overheads and normal jump in attacks high if im correct
and most crouching kicks u have to block low.

and normal standing moves and normal crouching punches u can either block high or low.

You do not have to stand-block highs and that's one of the main reasons people are blowing you up. Only overheads and jump-ins need to be blocked that way. Knowing that now will totally improve your game; it's like you just ate a mushroom, @super mario .

The other thing people aren't pointing out that's bad besides the lack of any real mix-up is the fact that none of your lows even combo anyway, so the opponent is given multiple opportunities to block each, which is something any competent player would do because there's no real reason to stand-block against Alex.

 

[super mario]

You do not have to stand-block highs and that's one of the main reasons people are blowing you up. Only overheads and jump-ins need to be blocked that way. Knowing that now will totally improve your game; it's like you just ate a mushroom, @super mario .

The other thing people aren't pointing out that's bad besides the lack of any real mix-up is the fact that none of your lows even combo anyway, so the opponent is given multiple opportunities to block each, which is something any competent player would do because there's no real reason to stand-block against Alex.

i did not say u have to block standing normal attacks just high u can block that either high or low

so basically i need to do mixups that are plus on hit and also that will combo and safe on block that will not be punished correct ?

and thank u for helping me johnny based cage

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

i did not say u have to block standing normal attacks just high u can block that either high or low

so basically i need to do mixups that are plus on hit and also that will combo and safe on block that will not be punished correct ?

and thank u for helping me johnny based cage

My pleasure, friend. If you can block attacks high or low, and your opponent doesn't give you any reason to block high, you'll block everything low if you're smart.

There's only a mix-up when you're in a situation where your opponent can throw out an attack that you have to block high and/or an attack that you have to block low. In Alex's case there's really no good reason to block high 99% of the time.

Mix-ups don't have to combo, but if you throw one out that leads to nothing on hit, it's really more of just a poke than a mix-up. And throwing out a few lows in a row that don't combo into a mid that's punishable means your opponent would literally have to stop blocking entirely to not only get hit, but for you not to get punished.

Alex in particular has a mix-up game based off the fact that he can put you in situations where his normals will beat yours and lead to a combo, or if you try to block those he can command grab you for reasonable damage and oki. It's a grab/strike mix-up as opposed to a high/low mix-up and only works because he has a lot of moves that leave him with enough plus frames to guarantee his follow-ups will beat out yours.

 

[Rip Torn]

i did not say u have to block standing normal attacks just high u can block that either high or low

so basically i need to do mixups that are plus on hit and also that will combo and safe on block that will not be punished correct ?

and thank u for helping me johnny based cage

Yes, you need to make sure your mixup leads to a combo or a lot of damage. Most of Alex's mixups come from his frame traps. You want to make them block f+HP. After that you are +3 so you can do either st.MP or throw/command grab.

If you hit them with st.MP, follow up with MP flash chop which will leave you at +3 again. Now you can do more mixups like st.MP again or try something like cr.LP into LP head crush. That's a really good reset, imo, because it will deal a bunch of stun and maybe you can dizzy them.

That's kind of the basics of Alex's mixup/pressure/reset game as I see it.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

@super mario I think the main point about the video you posted is the opponent would have no reason not to block the first low, even less reason not to block the second low, and would have to have their block button completely disabled not to block the sledgehammer.

There's just no way you can hit all that against anyone because there's no mix-up - no reason to block high - and even if they are caught stand blocking anyway, they still block the punishable sledgehammer at the end regardless.

 

[super mario]

Yes, you need to make sure your mixup leads to a combo or a lot of damage. Most of Alex's mixups come from his frame traps. You want to make them block f+HP. After that you are +3 so you can do either st.MP or throw/command grab.

If you hit them with st.MP, follow up with MP flash chop which will leave you at +3 again. Now you can do more mixups like st.MP again or try something like cr.LP into LP head crush. That's a really good reset, imo, because it will deal a bunch of stun and maybe you can dizzy them.

That's kind of the basics of Alex's mixup/pressure/reset game as I see it.

but the concept of a mixup is to mixup attacks right not do the same thing over and over right

 

[FL Rushdown]

but the concept of a mixup is to mixup attacks right not do the same thing over and over right

the concept is to do one thing that sets up two or more potential follow ups. Them blocking your f hp sets up the mixup of button/command grab. Them blocking a crouch jab sets up the mixup of button/throw.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

but the concept of a mixup is to mixup attacks right not do the same thing over and over right

After the opponent blocks f+HP you're +3 so a follow-up MP will beat any of their normals. This means they can't throw out an attack and pretty much have to block yours if you decide to throw it out.

If they do block though, your command grab will hit, should you throw that out instead. That is the mix-up.

When you are + enough to guarantee your normals will beat theirs, they have to guess whether you're going to throw those normals out and block them or guess whether you're going to read that they'll block and command grab instead.

The rest of his post was just about follow-ups you can do should you land a MP bc they didn't respect your + frames or misread that you'd command grab them. But the primary mix-up is will I get thrown or will he go into more normals that I have to block, essentially.