Question - Jason Voorhees Jason's Command Grab recovery

[hkriderz]

Hi guys! I wanted to discuss with you about the main move of Unstoppable and Relentless- Tight Squeeze (dbf2). I feel like this grab is very underrated and almost swept under the rug when people mention stuff that has too little whiff recovery.

This move is a grab that does 16-19%, and depending on the type of buff and variation you have it can go up to 25 or even 30% damage. It cannot be neutral crouched, can be canceled off of several strings, serves as a fantastic wakeup. The only way out is jump, backdash or armor. And Jason has plenty of mindgames to counter those.

Now let's discuss whiff recovery. 17 frames. 17. To put into perspective, Sonya's divekick is 13 frames on whiff. Now you could say its not comparable since hers starts a combo and blah blah blah. But keep in mind, this move progressively increases in damage over time, and is literally unblockable.

I tested it against several cmd grabs in the game, just seeing the punish opportunity.

As you can see, its very unforgiving. One mistake and the jason player can d2 you out of the air and you got punished for guessing right. The NJP has to be instant.

Other cmd grabs like Commando Kano have 48 to 44 frames, Erron has 38, Jax has 40. Yet here Jason sits, with a whopping 17 frame recovery. Literally making Commando utterly useless in this game.

I feel this move is a bit stupid and should get at least 10 or 15 frames more of recovery. It's only fair so its on par with the other ones. It makes zero sense for commando and wrestler to have more than twice the recovery Jason has.

P.S. this is not a "Jason is OP NERF" thread. So all the people coming to defend this based on other Jason weaknesses should save their words. I want to see what you guys think about this. Should it get normalized or is it fine the way it is?

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Idk where you've been in the community but this is one of the things everyone brings up about Jason lol. Honestly it's dumb. He needs shitty recovery like every other command grab character. No risk for going for an unblockable move? Stupid

 

[hkriderz]

Idk where you've been in the community but this is one of the things everyone brings up about Jason lol. Honestly it's dumb. He needs shitty recovery like every other command grab character. No risk for going for an unblockable move? Stupid

Well I've seen nearly every "patch wishlist thread" and "nerfs and buffs" thread and nobody mentioned this. The only complaint about jason i heard was his d1 lol

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Well I've seen nearly every "patch wishlist thread" and "nerfs and buffs" thread and nobody mentioned this. The only complaint about jason i heard was his d1 lol

Yeah that's another one. D1 and whiff recovery on his grabs are dumb. D1 is especially stupid against tremor and sub

 

[Braindead]

So Sun God's grab does the same damage and it has 49 frames of recovery compared to the 17 for Jason's?

RIP

 

[Invincible Salads]

but jason has no projectile he needs it

lol, if they make his grab super shit, ill be done with him too. ;-;

 

[kantboy-2]

The problem with command grabs in this game is the absurd amount of recovery and the fact that any armored move by the opponent nullifies the range throw even if you do an armored command grab.

Try doing a MB command grab to a MB flying kick by Liu Kang or Kung Jin. Good times.

Jason should have more recovery and the other command grabs should have less. All of them in the 28-35 frame range depending on the active frames of the command grabs. The quicker active frames, the more recovery time you should have.

I love playing Jason from time to time, but I hate playing against him with Commando Kano.

 

[Eldriken]

So Sun God's grab does the same damage and it has 49 frames of recovery compared to the 17 for Jason's?

RIP

Kotal should have Jason's whiffed command grab frames and Jason should have Kotal's. Fair and balanced.

 

[Braindead]

Kotal should have Jason's whiffed command grab frames and Jason should have Kotal's. Fair and balanced.

People would bitch about Sun God until the end of days if that happens.

 

[Daemantalo]

B1xxTight Squeeze Whiff is plus like 1 or 2 on block for some reason, trololololol. In all seriousness, I think it's this particular dirt that makes him unique. I'm a Relentless Main, and I feel he does need it, but I could see where it's borderline OP because of what Unstoppable brings to the table. B1xxTight Squeeze has a tighter execution window than B1xxSun God Choke tick-throws if I recall. Not saying execution should play a part, but it's really something to nibble on. I don't see it used often in tournaments.

 

[dennycascade]

This move is a grab that does 16-19%,

...False

Literally making Commando utterly useless in this game.

Dude stop

As you can see, its very unforgiving. One mistake and the jason player can d2 you out of the air and you got punished for guessing right.

LBSH, you didn't get punished for "guessing right", you missed the command grab punish and paid for it. Every character can punish it one way or another and the command grab's recovery has already been nerfed, so that's on you. There are plenty of harder punishes in this game and many that only specific characters can land, it's not NRS's job to make everything easier for you. You also can't compare it to other characters' command grabs because b1xxdbf2 is supposed to be plus on hit. It's how Jason was designed to play. This thread reminds me of people saying Punch Walk should be unsafe on block lol

 

[conqueror]

Whiff recovery on sun/moon god choke is absurd, you can jump back and then jump forward and still get a punish... and this...

 

[trufenix]

Yeah, just imagine if jason had a parry or an instant air cannon ball or a bunch of rocket cancels instead of a bunch of hitbox issues, super tight cancels and hard to set up buffs. This would be outrageous.

 

[juicepouch]

Give all command grabs this little recovery

Why is everyone okay with stupid offense until it is a command grab character?

Buff Goro!

 

[Darth-Nero]

Of all the dump crap to complain about in the game, This isn't one of them. Jason got no mixup, His command grab is a vital pressure tool. stop trying to nerf what isn't top tier yada yada..

 

[lilyunggrabbagjr]

Other cmd grabs like Commando Kano have 48 to 44 frames, Erron has 38, Jax has 40. Yet here Jason sits, with a whopping 17 frame recovery. Literally making Commando utterly useless in this game.

I feel this move is a bit stupid and should get at least 10 or 15 frames more of recovery. It's only fair so its on par with the other ones. It makes zero sense for commando and wrestler to have more than twice the recovery Jason has.

I hate statements like this sure the whiff recovery is stupid BUT saying it makes commando useless in game dumb thats like me saying commando makes flame fist useless because he has cmd throw and parry oh and I know everyone just recently got on thr jason hype train but that grab recovery has already been nerfed believe it or not

 

[EdenianWarrior]

but jason has no projectile he needs it

lol, if they make his grab super shit, ill be done with him too. ;-;

Good. Fuck guest characters.

 

[Wigy]

rofl if sun god had jason's cmd grab frame data i would stop playing dis game

 

[omooba]

Lol y'all are saying safe like that's all it is. Bruh if you don't punish with armor or instant air attack( which bit everyone can do) you're either getting hit my the grab or he'll anti air or even punish most backdashes

 

[hkriderz]

Of all the dump crap to complain about in the game, This isn't one of them. Jason got no mixup, His command grab is a vital pressure tool. stop trying to nerf what isn't top tier yada yada..

I just hate it when people read one thing in the OP that triggers them and don't even read that I said this was not a complaint/Jason is top 1 thread. If this patch does what it should and Jason is unchanged, unstoppable will be top 5-7, no question.

He has no mixup? His command grab is his mixup. Also he has a low that comboes, a plus overhead boot and his b3 shenanigans.

If you say don't nerf his vital pressure tool, then why is sun god in this game the way he is? He has no mixup, even less than Jason and his command grab does about the same damage. Yet it's not dumb in recovery and full combo punishable. Your argument is invalid.

I said i didn't want this thread to be Nerf Jason defend Jason shit, but I put too much faith in TYM lol

 

[hkriderz]

...False

Dude stop

LBSH, you didn't get punished for "guessing right", you missed the command grab punish and paid for it. Every character can punish it one way or another and the command grab's recovery has already been nerfed, so that's on you. There are plenty of harder punishes in this game and many that only specific characters can land, it's not NRS's job to make everything easier for you. You also can't compare it to other characters' command grabs because b1xxdbf2 is supposed to be plus on hit. It's how Jason was designed to play. This thread reminds me of people saying Punch Walk should be unsafe on block lol

Ok first of all um yes it does that amount of damage, and even more. Ex does 16-19% and any type of buff can make it up to 25+%.

Secondly, saying the comparison between commando was a mistake now. I was just saying it to further show how absurd the recovery is compared to a variation solely based on grabs. I think sun god would have been a better example.

Lastly, yah yah yah you can punish it regardless and it's your fault and git gud. This is literally why your argument is irrelevant and just in pure defense for Jason. That's like me saying, you can punish Sonyas dive kick of you absolutely know it's going to whiff. Problem with these things is you're not. Jason has so many ways to trick you and make you fall for his tick throws, and even when you make the godlike read, you have to burn a bar of precious meter, or do the most instant NJP for your reward. If you're slightly late you just jumped at Jason and u get d2'd

Why should a character have a plus unblockable and that's fine??
The risk reward is too much in Jason's favor. Literally every other grab in this game is punishable by an NJP. Why should Jason's be different

 

[Skedar70]

Isn´t Jason DBF2 throw slower than commando or sun god? Maybe that is why it has better recovery. I think it also has to do with the moves from which he and other characters can tick from. Kotals and Kanos b1 are faster than Jason b1 for example and so are their d4.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I just hate it when people read one thing in the OP that triggers them and don't even read that I said this was not a complaint/Jason is top 1 thread. If this patch does what it should and Jason is unchanged, unstoppable will be top 5-7, no question.

He has no mixup? His command grab is his mixup. Also he has a low that comboes, a plus overhead boot and his b3 shenanigans.

If you say don't nerf his vital pressure tool, then why is sun god in this game the way he is? He has no mixup, even less than Jason and his command grab does about the same damage. Yet it's not dumb in recovery and full combo punishable. Your argument is invalid.

I said i didn't want this thread to be Nerf Jason defend Jason shit, but I put too much faith in TYM lol

Yeah i read your wall of rant, You literally said that Jason is potential top 5 therefore should get "normalized" in the next patch then ask ppl not to be defensive 'cause " oh i don't mean this to be a nerf thread btw". Well, this is exactly what this is buddy, It's either you're deliberately trying to pass a nerf thread as a question one or you inadvertently contradict yourself.

Also if there is anything that is invalid it's your argument, It's already established that "X character have/haven't something so why can/can't Y character have it" is a logical fallacy that doesn't warrant a thread to discuss it. Thanks for sharing your opinion tho.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Isn´t Jason DBF2 throw slower than commando or sun god? Maybe that is why it has better recovery. I think it also has to do with the moves from which he and other characters can tick from. Kotals and Kanos b1 are faster than Jason b1 for example and so are their d4.

this, very much this, the squeeze is definitely a slow command grab, it deserves better recovery than his much faster backbreaker.

 

[CrazyFingers]

There are plenty of harder punishes in this game and many that only specific characters can land

Kotal's F2
EX Nut Punch
F42 on Slasher
Alien's Low Snag from max range
Scorpion's F2 in Ninjitsu
...shall I go on or has your point been proven enough?