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Question - Jason Voorhees Jason's Command Grab recovery

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Yeah i read your wall of rant, You literally said that Jason is potential top 5 therefore should get "normalized" in the next patch then ask ppl not to be defensive 'cause " oh i don't mean this to be a nerf thread btw". Well, this is exactly what this is buddy, It's either you're deliberately trying to pass a nerf thread as a question one or you inadvertently contradict yourself.
What?? There is literally nothing I said in the OP even close to this.

If it is my reply to you, then yes if Jason goes untouched, unstoppable will be top 5-7. This is really self explanatory, and sonic even thinks he is top in this patch.

I asked do you think this move should get whiff recovery or no and why? And I stated my opinion that it should given it has an unfair advantage over ALL the command grabs in this game.

You have every right to disagree and post a VALID claim as to why it's fair and balanced. Others have given their reason besides "BUT JASON IS NOT GOOD WITH NO MIXUPS THATS HIS ONLY MOVE STOP TRYING TO NERF IT". And I said the age old "defend a move from a character because of their other weaknesses" argument is irrelevant. Nothing about my post was of salt, of a NERF JASON NOW post. Asking the community for an opinion is apparently an indirect complaint thread on this site SmH.

Please read and understand what this thread is about before calling me out on non existent claims.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Ok first of all um yes it does that amount of damage, and even more. Ex does 16-19% and any type of buff can make it up to 25+%.

Secondly, saying the comparison between commando was a mistake now. I was just saying it to further show how absurd the recovery is compared to a variation solely based on grabs. I think sun god would have been a better example.

Lastly, yah yah yah you can punish it regardless and it's your fault and git gud. This is literally why your argument is irrelevant and just in pure defense for Jason. That's like me saying, you can punish Sonyas dive kick of you absolutely know it's going to whiff. Problem with these things is you're not. Jason has so many ways to trick you and make you fall for his tick throws, and even when you make the godlike read, you have to burn a bar of precious meter, or do the most instant NJP for your reward. If you're slightly late you just jumped at Jason and u get d2'd

Why should a character have a plus unblockable and that's fine??
The risk reward is too much in Jason's favor. Literally every other grab in this game is punishable by an NJP. Why should Jason's be different
If you're jumping out of his tick throw then you definitely are making the read that it's "absolutely going to whiff". That's why you jumped out of it in the first place. If you're messing up your punish... Well once again that's on you. You're arguing that jason should be nerfed because you can't time an instant NJP out of a 19 frame command grab dude (second slowest in the game), think about how absurd that sounds.
 

CrazyFingers

IT HAS BEGUN!
Moderator
If you're jumping out of his tick throw then you definitely are making the read that it's "absolutely going to whiff". That's why you jumped out of it in the first place. If you're messing up your punish... Well once again that's on you. You're arguing that jason should be nerfed because you can't time an instant NJP out of a 19 frame command grab dude (second slowest in the game), think about how absurd that sounds.
Although don't let this make you think it's not strong, it most certainly is, but it has trade offs. It's slow as fuck, so it recovers instantly. You want instant recovery, use tight squeeze, you want faster with more recovery, you go with your other command grab. That simple. I'm sure denny isn't saying the move is bad, he's just saying the whiff recovery isn't as crazy good as you might think. Am i correct in saying that Denny?
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Although don't let this make you think it's not strong, it most certainly is, but it has trade offs. It's slow as fuck, so it recovers instantly. You want instant recovery, use tight squeeze, you want faster with more recovery, you go with your other command grab. That simple. I'm sure denny isn't saying the move is bad, he's just saying the whiff recovery isn't as crazy good as you might think. Am i correct in saying that Denny?
Basically I'm saying that it's a great move, but definitely isn't on the top of paulo's nerf list. If you want to make a thread about someone's tool that might need normalizing, it would make more sense for it to be about something like Cutthroat's EX buff or Demo's grenade wakeup/grenades in general. Don't get why he made the thread about this random command grab and then said a whole bunch of outlandish things in the OP.
 

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
He needed it because of how he was pre-patch, now Jason is actually a really good character (some may some too good) so I would understandthe outcry however you have to look at the character as whole.

Erron Black can tick off of anything and everything and can even MB after it has hit

Kotal is a character with the best set of buttons in the game with great ticks off of important normals and strings plus his grab heals/grants meter

Commando Kano sucks

I agree Jason needs a nerf but it's not in the command grab department
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
He needed it because of how he was pre-patch, now Jason is actually a really good character (some may some too good) so I would understandthe outcry however you have to look at the character as whole.

Erron Black can tick off of anything and everything and can even MB after it has hit

Kotal is a character with the best set of buttons in the game with great ticks off of important normals and strings plus his grab heals/grants meter

Commando Kano sucks

I agree Jason needs a nerf but it's not in the command grab department
You know a lot of Erron ticks got taken away in XL right?
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
He needed it because of how he was pre-patch, now Jason is actually a really good character (some may some too good) so I would understandthe outcry however you have to look at the character as whole.

Erron Black can tick off of anything and everything and can even MB after it has hit

Kotal is a character with the best set of buttons in the game with great ticks off of important normals and strings plus his grab heals/grants meter

Commando Kano sucks

I agree Jason Doesn't need a nerf
fixed it for u :)
 

jackempty0

Born on a Monday
I just hate it when people read one thing in the OP that triggers them and don't even read that I said this was not a complaint/Jason is top 1 thread. If this patch does what it should and Jason is unchanged, unstoppable will be top 5-7, no question.

He has no mixup? His command grab is his mixup. Also he has a low that comboes, a plus overhead boot and his b3 shenanigans.

If you say don't nerf his vital pressure tool, then why is sun god in this game the way he is? He has no mixup, even less than Jason and his command grab does about the same damage. Yet it's not dumb in recovery and full combo punishable. Your argument is invalid.

I said i didn't want this thread to be Nerf Jason defend Jason shit, but I put too much faith in TYM lol
Wait wait.... let me get this straight. You want to nerf a character because they might be top 5-7. What is wrong with people....
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Wait wait.... let me get this straight. You want to nerf a character because they might be top 5-7. What is wrong with people....
The only thing wrong is your post smh. Unstoppable only needs the current top tiers to be nerfed to be a considered a definite top 3-5 character.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Still more than jason
Really? I'm not sure.

Erron has s1, 11b3 and 21 ticks and his pokes

Jason bad b2, b1, f2, 24 ticks, along with pokes. Jason has more.

Also you can't duck Jason's but you can errons.

And both can ex the grab and gurantee it. So your comparison is kinda invalid.
 
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CrazyFingers

IT HAS BEGUN!
Moderator
Really? I'm not sure.

Erron has s1, 11b3 and 21 ticks and his pokes

Jason bad b2, b1, f2, 24 ticks, along with pokes. Jason has more.

Also you can't duck Jason's but you can errons.

And both can ex the grab and gurantee it. So your comparison is kinda invalid.
You also have to keep in mind that the tick throws Erron Black still has, are basically the only ones he needs now. The only tick throws you will really be using on Jason are B1/B3 and low pokes, also you forgot B3 as a tick throw.
 

TommyKing5

But the saw... the saw is family
I've never really had a problem with Jason's command grabs at all. I did used to play Jason as a main way before the buffs and I used to get armour broken significantly using this move and the faster 'back breaker' or whatever it's called, plain whiffs 99% of the time. Jason's 'tight squeeze' can also be low profiled really easy.

Jason & Commando Kano are the only two characters in the game (I think, please correct me if i'm mistaken) that have two command grabs, so from my perspective and maybe some others, that NRS designed them to be grapplers. It's understandable why Jason has so many tick throws for that sole reason. I agree the recovery on the grabs are good for the Jason player, but I believe this is the least of the annoying things that Jason has in his toolset.

If you took away this recovery, his pressure would take a big hit.
 

jackempty0

Born on a Monday
The only thing wrong is your post smh. Unstoppable only needs the current top tiers to be nerfed to be a considered a definite top 3-5 character.
that is my point whats wrong with that?

the game can be evened out but there will always be top tiers that are just slightly better than the rest
 

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
I just hate it when people read one thing in the OP that triggers them and don't even read that I said this was not a complaint/Jason is top 1 thread. If this patch does what it should and Jason is unchanged, unstoppable will be top 5-7, no question.

He has no mixup? His command grab is his mixup. Also he has a low that comboes, a plus overhead boot and his b3 shenanigans.

If you say don't nerf his vital pressure tool, then why is sun god in this game the way he is? He has no mixup, even less than Jason and his command grab does about the same damage. Yet it's not dumb in recovery and full combo punishable. Your argument is invalid.

I said i didn't want this thread to be Nerf Jason defend Jason shit, but I put too much faith in TYM lol
Shhhh...stop telling everyone about the dirt. ;)