General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang Dragon's Fire & Flame Fist General Discussion

[Tweedy]

And he thinks FF Liu beats Alien 7-3?

Nah he hasn't said anything about the MU number.

But I've said all of the crazy 1-9 and 2-8 stuff to him lol.

 

[SylverRye]

also how is this MU easy for kitana?


and when LK does the shaolin flame, can certain characters with a fast backdash backdash the follow up?

If he does shao

@SylverRye would be in shambles if he was reading these posts right now.

I personally think its 6 4 lius favor in flame fist lol

 

[SylverRye]

Sorry about that post thing. Dont really get on here so dont know when i half type stuff. But i think ff beats tarkatan. Df does not though

 

[Amplified$hotz]

If he does shao

I personally think its 6 4 lius favor in flame fist lol

Yeah but not 7-3

 

[Big D]

I demand that @Tweedy pays for my chemotherapy after the cancer he just gave me from this post.

 

[Tweedy]

Yeah but not 7-3

It might be 8-2.

I'll respect your guy's opinions, but I mean.......

I'll say it's 7-3 for now and meet you guys in the middle. Match is still fucked up though. It's not even a matter of Liu Kang being this omg beast basedgod boss. It's just that he fights Alien well and has some obscure dirt on him that really throws the risk/reward out of wack.

DF is a 5-5, yeah.

 

[TheGoldenJew]

plz request a self ban

 

[SylverRye]

Yeah but not 7-3

Yeah i don't think 7-3 at all but that's just my opinion. I do think its 5 5 dragons fire though. But 7 3 seems a bit high for me

 

[Youphemism]

I personally think Dragon's Fire goes 5-5 with Tarkatan but beats Acidic 6-4. If anyone thinks Acidic doesn't lose to Dragon's Fire then I'm all ears because I want to make sure I'm understanding all aspects of that matchup from the DF mains themselves.

 

[Invincible Salads]

If he does shao

I personally think its 6 4 lius favor in flame fist lol

alright, im really trying to fully understand flame fist. I think its harder to learn the mu for than df is. can we pleease play some matches sylver?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I have been in the lab for 5 minutes and this is what I found so far...tell me if I'm an idiot or if this is viable for the alien vs FF mu

Df3 beats the following options on block:
wp parry
Wp db2
Wp dd1 (punish) ex wp
Wp ex dd1(punish) wp
Wp ex dd1 (punish) ex wp

Ex DF 3 beats all the above options plus the following:
Wp bf3

I can post more but it seems the only viable options FF has is to cancel wp into low fireball or flying kick...both of which are unsafe. And dd1 cancels ex or not are 100% punishable by alien.

 

[Tweedy]

I have been in the lab for 5 minutes and this is what I found so far...tell me if I'm an idiot or if this is viable for the alien vs FF mu

Df3 beats the following options on block:
wp parry
Wp db2
Wp dd1 (punish) ex wp
Wp ex dd1(punish) wp
Wp ex dd1 (punish) ex wp

Ex DF 3 beats all the above options plus the following:
Wp bf3

I can post more but it seems the only viable options FF has is to cancel wp into low fireball or flying kick...both of which are unsafe. And dd1 cancels ex or not are 100% punishable by alien.

It's not a bad option.

I've settled with a standing 2 punish to beat buff or db2, or just block to beat low fireball or parry, or EX db2.

There are also some bugs with pounce, like EX pounce will fly over DB2. I just prefer going for a full combo, rather than df3. Standing 2 or block isn't nearly as good as jump or block but it is what it is.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

It's not a bad option.

I've settled with a standing 2 punish to beat buff or db2, or just block to beat low fireball or parry, or EX db2.

There are also some bugs with pounce, like EX pounce will fly over DB2. I just prefer going for a full combo, rather than df3. Standing 2 or block isn't nearly as good as jump or block but it is what it is.

You have a guaranteed 100% punish. Use it and the mu becomes 5-5 cause alien still controls the neutral. Having to guess after wp is pretty consistent across the cast.

 

[Tweedy]

You have a guaranteed 100% punish. Use it and the mu becomes 5-5 cause alien still controls the neutral. Having to guess after wp is pretty consistent across the cast.

It's not guaranteed.

And either way, it's not meant to be in Liu's favor at all after wp. A df3 that isn't even guaranteed does not sway the match that much at all. It's better to go for a full combo. Instead of using 5 minutes actually play the match.

Alien doesn't control the neutral vs Liu lol.

Almost every other character can jump out or block and full combo punish everything. It's not meant to be in Liu's favor at all, you're already blocking him and he's building meter. The fact that all Alien can get is a POSSIBLE df3 and a full combo that isn't in his favor, is trash.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

It's not guaranteed.

And either way, it's not meant to be in Liu's favor at all after wp. A df3 that isn't even guaranteed does not sway the match that much at all. It's better to go for a full combo. Instead of using 5 minutes actually play the match.

Alien doesn't control the neutral vs Liu lol.

Almost every other character can jump out or block and full combo punish everything. It's not meant to be in Liu's favor at all, you're already blocking him and he's building meter. The fact that all Alien can get is a POSSIBLE df3 and a full combo that isn't in his favor, is trash.

It is guaranteed unless they do fireball or FK.

 

[Tweedy]

Just pounce and control the neutral bro. Freefist aint sheet.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

And why is it always better to go for a full combo?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Just pounce and control the neutral bro. Freefist aint sheet.

As a reversal FF has to commit to fireball but that is a risk.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

You make no sense

 

[Tweedy]

But for real I appreciate your input @AK L0rdoftheFLY

I just think this will devolve into a "lol Alien doesn't get contested in the neutral by anyone lol he's alien bro", kind of deal. Maybe that's the case but I feel like Liu does fine, regardless of WP mind games. Otherwise DF wouldn't go 5-5 with Tarkatan or arguably beat Acidic.

Combine that with him having even risk/reward after you already block whatever into WP, the match is very very hard.

Much love.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

the match is very very hard.

Much love.

A true 5-5 should feel hard. You only win 50% and that's if you play the mu 100% correct.

Happy to help though

 

[Tweedy]

A true 5-5 should feel hard. You only win 50% and that's if you play the mu 100% correct.

Happy to help though

Not really. I can play a 5-5 versus my mom and she'd lose 100% of the time. It really comes down to player vs player, especially in an even match.

I mean it's not like i'm saying Liu Kang overall wins. I have Kang as a 5-5 in Dragon's Fire and some people even think Alien loses. It's not like i'm confusing an even match as a losing match. What am I, a Takeda player?

FF wins man. I still stand by the whole "no Alien can beat Ejara", challenge.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not really. I can play a 5-5 versus my mom and she'd lose 100% of the time. It really comes down to player vs player, especially in an even match.

I mean it's not like i'm saying Liu Kang overall wins. I have Kang as a 5-5 in Dragon's Fire and some people even think Alien loses. It's not like i'm confusing an even match as a losing match. What am I, a Takeda player?

FF wins man. I still stand by the whole "no Alien can beat Ejara", challenge.

ok whatever you say

 

[Invincible Salads]

It is guaranteed unless they do fireball or FK.

so couldnt you just os Ex pounce? low fireball and flying kick jail after wp right?

 

[Gustavness]

I think its interesting that this is being talked about. I've always felt flame fist was very underrated

Vs Acidic, this is an easy win. Acidic cannot compete in zoning from anywhere, alien has to go in. his only hope is to corner you and mix you

Vs Tarkatan, as long as you can option select EX WP after 2nd rekka you're fine. Being able to punish flip and any option after the rekkas which is not delayed for full combos into pressure is what wins here. i feel like this is 6.5 - 4.5 in favor of Flame Fist

Alien really only wins at about 3/4 screen and in the air. his range is absurd, please nerf this retarded Xenomorph. stay grounded and d2 the shit out of him every time he jumps. Also, if you get 50/50'd into oblivion obviously.

Even though Alien is the best character in the game, its good to know he has at least one bad matchup.