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General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang Dragon's Fire & Flame Fist General Discussion

Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
also how is this MU easy for kitana?


and when LK does the shaolin flame, can certain characters with a fast backdash backdash the follow up?
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Invincible Salads said:
also how is this MU easy for kitana?


and when LK does the shaolin flame, can certain characters with a fast backdash backdash the follow up?
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It's not easy for Kitana lol.


And no, all special moves besides parry will catch back dash. You can even cancel windmill punches into ex Shaolin flame which has quick recovery, run forward and full combo but that's on a really hard read.
 
Bruno-NeoSpace

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Amplified$hotz said:
Anyone else feel like Liu Kang has very few losing matchups right now?
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Yes, Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist together has only 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 bad matchups :p

Swarm Queen (4-6), Cutthroat (4-6), Mournful (4-6 or maybe 5-5), Shaolin (4-6 or maybe 5-5), Piercing (3-7), Demolition (4-6), Tempest (4-6 or maybe 5-5).
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
EMPR_MURK said:
I feel like liu is one of thr few characters with little to no 3-7s, but imo his losing mus are...

(Note this is combination of all his variations so some might not lose to the other so if u want me to break down specific ones, just let me know)

Sonya
Ermac
Kano
Alien
Shinnok
Sub
Kung jin
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I think sub has an advantage but not that huge. Why Sonya?
And characters that just out footsie him badly give him a hard time. But they're all very winnable matchups.
 
Bruno-NeoSpace

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Amplified$hotz said:
why do you think piercing is 3-7
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She has amazing zoning and anti-zoning, she can react to Kang's fireballs and do her teleport... so, at long range, she will destroy Kang. She has amazing footsies to out-footsie Kang, and she amazing pokes - 6 frames d1 and 8f d3 that low profile. It does not matter where Kang is in the screen, she will always have advantage.
 
NaCl man

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Invincible Salads said:
so about where is the window to do it would u say? the WP from regular shaolin flame? and so i need to play the MU quite a bit to understand how to deal with all his options then huh?
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you have to input the fbf4 during the animation of shaolin flame. Easiest way is to buffer sf during the 1st wp. Wpxxsfxxwp is the hardest sf cancel but sf can be canceled into any special.
 
E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
Amplified$hotz said:
I think sub has an advantage but not that huge. Why Sonya?
And characters that just out footsie him badly give him a hard time. But they're all very winnable matchups.
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Imo sonya beats flame fist and dragons fire. Dualist could possibly do the best against her type of meta because of her "terrible" wake up game due to orbs and light stance fireballs provide a better zoning game against sonya imo but idk much about the Dualist mu against her but...

Flame fist could possibly go even but then u have to think about all of her variations and the fact that each of them has some type of answer to what liu wants to do.

Going back to flame fist, on the defensive, liu does pretty well from the fireballs, the parry, and better flying kick for armoring thru her long range shenanigans but then liu has to worry about a reactive dive kick so its limited. Demo sonya is probably the variation that flame fist does best against...ill finish more on it later. Going back to work
 
E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
Tweedy said:
Alien does not beat Liu. I'm triggered.

Tarkatan might even lose to FF.
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If u break it down by variations, tarkatan beats Dragons Fire...imo all of alien beats dragons fire due to the fact alien nullifies the majority of his offense...it might be even but thats as close as it gets.

But i do agree that flame fist beats alien so far
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
EMPR_MURK said:
If u break it down by variations, tarkatan beats Dragons Fire...imo all of alien beats dragons fire due to the fact alien nullifies the majority of his offense...it might be even but thats as close as it gets.

But i do agree that flame fist beats alien so far
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Why does Tarkatan beat Dragon's Fire?

As long as you punish regular flip with F1, you can punish all of Alien's stuff. You can option select rekkas with EX flying kick, or stiff out a gapless finish or stagger with F1. Low fireball also helps Liu out in the neutral, it makes Tarkatan come to him, since Tarkatan has no fullscreen presence. He can also trip guard and anti air Alien. One of Alien's biggest strengths is that some characters just cannot anti air him in a lot of cases. Liu always can.

If your punishes are on point, the risk/reward for anything that Alien does is in Liu's favor. If I do flip or snag, that's just 7% and if you're right you get a full combo. If I do EX flip or enhance a rekka, you either punish me with no bar required or have to use a bar for a guaranteed punish. You also break my armor, do well in the neutral(walk speed, anti airs, low fireball), and have safe armor, in this specific match up. To me, Liu, whether it be DF or FF, is one of Alien's hardest match ups, and without a doubt, 5-5 or 6-4 in Liu's favor.
 
E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
Tweedy said:
Why does Tarkatan beat Dragon's Fire?

As long as you punish regular flip with F1, you can punish all of Alien's stuff. You can option select rekkas with EX flying kick, or stiff out a gapless finish or stagger with F1. Low fireball also helps Liu out in the neutral, it makes Tarkatan come to him, since Tarkatan has no fullscreen presence. He can also trip guard and anti air Alien. One of Alien's biggest strengths is that some characters just cannot anti air him in a lot of cases. Liu always can.

If your punishes are on point, the risk/reward for anything that Alien does is in Liu's favor. If I do flip or snag, that's just 7% and if you're right you get a full combo. If I do EX flip or enhance a rekka, you either punish me with no bar required or have to use a bar for a guaranteed punish. You also break my armor, do well in the neutral(walk speed, anti airs, low fireball), and have safe armor, in this specific match up. To me, Liu, whether it be DF or FF, is one of Alien's hardest match ups, and without a doubt, 5-5 or 6-4 in Liu's favor.
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You're talking neutral from a perspective of an alien that isn't taking advantage of his superior range in the mu. Alien can punish liu from the distance that liu shines at the most...mid range. Also liu can't break all of his armor which also plays a role in the mu for how Dragons fire is designed.

Any unsafe thing liu does from a certain range is an easy punish for alien. Tarkatan/DF could be an arguable 5-5 but then there's acidic/dragons fire in which i feel could be in aliens favor.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
EMPR_MURK said:
You're talking neutral from a perspective of an alien that isn't taking advantage of his superior range in the mu. Alien can punish liu from the distance that liu shines at the most...mid range. Also liu can't break all of his armor which also plays a role in the mu for how Dragons fire is designed.

Any unsafe thing liu does from a certain range is an easy punish for alien. Tarkatan/DF could be an arguable 5-5 but then there's acidic/dragons fire in which i feel could be in aliens favor.
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Alien's B3 and snag aren't nearly as effective vs low projectiles, as they are vs highs. I can't duck and get large amounts of frames on you, and then B3, like I could on Jacqui or even Kitana. Liu does break all of his armors, even EX DB2.

Besides fireballs, what exactly am I supposed to be punishing from a range that i'd use B3? I'm not gonna use B3 in footsie range, since you have great foot speed and F4. I'll just get hit for trying that, more often than not.

Acidic might beat DF.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
woah iono if he beats alien lmao.. Liu has one of the worst neutral in the game at mid range. and thats where alien dominates
 
E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
Tweedy said:
Alien's B3 and snag aren't nearly as effective vs low projectiles, as they are vs highs. I can't duck and get large amounts of frames on you, and then B3, like I could on Jacqui or even Kitana. Liu does break all of his armors, even EX DB2.

Besides fireballs, what exactly am I supposed to be punishing from a range that i'd use B3? I'm not gonna use B3 in footsie range, since you have great foot speed and F4. I'll just get hit for trying that, more often than not.

Acidic might beat DF.
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Liu(Dragons fire) does not break alien's spinner move...without the use of meter doing a mb fbrc(9fr reversal that also changes up aliens hitbox).
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
EMPR_MURK said:
Liu(Dragons fire) does not break alien's spinner move...without the use of meter doing a mb fbrc(9fr reversal that also changes up aliens hitbox).
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I mean you broke it vs me when we played and i'm doing it rn in practice mode. Not sure what else to say, Lord Murk.

Sure, it's only like a 8 or 9 out of 10 break, rather than a 10/10, but it's still heavily in your favor. You're spending no meter and safely breaking my armor. I'm spending meter and getting rekt m8.

And idk what to say about Liu having one of the worst neutrals at mid range. A lot of characters would give up decent mids for his walk speed.

Edit: After further testing, this is honestly a 10/10 break with B1 unless you fuck up, but you could fuck up on any wake up.
 
Bruno-NeoSpace

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
RM AtK! said:
Liu has one of the worst neutral in the game at mid range.
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Liu Kang has no damn one of the worst neutral in the game at mid range. :rolleyes: :confused:

His neutral at mid range is not great but it's no terrible:

- B2 is a 14 frames overhead that has very good range, safe against most characters in the game, knockdown and +20 on hit (it's a free forward dash);

- B4 is a 14 frames low that has good range, safe, hard knockdown and +7 on hit;

- D3 is 12 frames low poke that low profile a lot of things, +1 on block and +22 on hit;

He has more things to control the neutral at mid range but i'm tired to type more about it :p
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Bruno-NeoSpace said:
Liu Kang has no damn one of the worst neutral in the game at mid range. :rolleyes: :confused:

His neutral at mid range is not great but it's no terrible:

- B2 is a 14 frames overhead that has very good range, safe against most characters in the game, knockdown and +20 on hit (it's a free forward dash);

- B4 is a 14 frames low that has good range, safe, hard knockdown and +7 on hit;

- D3 is 12 frames low poke that low profile a lot of things, +1 on block and +22 on hit;

He has more things to control the neutral at mid range but i'm tired to type more about it :p
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None of them reach Alien's halfscreen away I'm sorry. He loses to Alien
 
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