General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang Dragon's Fire & Flame Fist General Discussion

[Tweedy]

None of them reach Alien's halfscreen away I'm sorry. He loses to Alien

No one who has even tried Alien will say that. You're just speaking from an outside, biased point of view. It's a very hard match for the Lord.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

I mean you broke it vs me when we played and i'm doing it rn in practice mode. Not sure what else to say, Lord Murk.

Sure, it's only like a 8 or 9 out of 10 break, rather than a 10/10, but it's still heavily in your favor. You're spending no meter and safely breaking my armor. I'm spending meter and getting rekt m8.

And idk what to say about Liu having one of the worst neutrals at mid range. A lot of characters would give up decent mids for his walk speed.

Edit: After further testing, this is honestly a 10/10 break with B1 unless you fuck up, but you could fuck up on any wake up.

Im talking about during non mb fbrc pressure. Examples...

B34 fbrc b1 does not work
F44 fbrc b1 does not work
44 fbrc b1 does not work

But as i said earlier, mb fbrcs could break the majority of armor in the game but even that is situational against some characters.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

No one who has even tried Alien will say that. You're just speaking from an outside, biased point of view. It's a very hard match for the Lord.

You logic is always "if this character punishes Alien's OH flip then he beats Alien". Can you give more explanation to support your number?

 

[Alakai]

Why does Tarkatan beat Dragon's Fire?

As long as you punish regular flip with F1, you can punish all of Alien's stuff. You can option select rekkas with EX flying kick, or stiff out a gapless finish or stagger with F1. Low fireball also helps Liu out in the neutral, it makes Tarkatan come to him, since Tarkatan has no fullscreen presence. He can also trip guard and anti air Alien. One of Alien's biggest strengths is that some characters just cannot anti air him in a lot of cases. Liu always can.

If your punishes are on point, the risk/reward for anything that Alien does is in Liu's favor. If I do flip or snag, that's just 7% and if you're right you get a full combo. If I do EX flip or enhance a rekka, you either punish me with no bar required or have to use a bar for a guaranteed punish. You also break my armor, do well in the neutral(walk speed, anti airs, low fireball), and have safe armor, in this specific match up. To me, Liu, whether it be DF or FF, is one of Alien's hardest match ups, and without a doubt, 5-5 or 6-4 in Liu's favor.

You logic is always "if this character punishes Alien's OH flip then he beats Alien". Can you give more explanation to support your number?

Literally went back one page to find this. For the record I also think ff at least goes even with tark for pretty much the same reasons stated.

 

[RM AtK!]

Liu Kang has no damn one of the worst neutral in the game at mid range.

His neutral at mid range is not great but it's no terrible:

- B2 is a 14 frames overhead that has very good range, safe against most characters in the game, knockdown and +20 on hit (it's a free forward dash);

- B4 is a 14 frames low that has good range, safe, hard knockdown and +7 on hit;

- D3 is 12 frames low poke that low profile a lot of things, +1 on block and +22 on hit;

He has more things to control the neutral at mid range but i'm tired to type more about it

its very subpar fam.. every single normal or string has a pretty laughable recovery on wiff and no distance covered almost.. spacing on Liu is CRUCIAL in the midrange. that's why he doesn't play mid range at all he has to be full screen or in your culo period. go wiff a b2 b4 midrange vs someone lol. lmk how that works out for ya.

isn't saying hes bad at all but his midrange game is very very weak. that's usually the chars he loses too imo (ppl who have a strong midrange presence)

 

[Tweedy]

What is Flamefist's worst match up in the game.

@EMPR_MURK

Flamefist destroys Alien so badly and i'm tired of people saying that he doesn't. It's not even that Alien is not good, he's obviously the best, but how can I play when I can't get a jump and punish on the links? I can't armor them or poke, i'll get blasted through. I just have to hold them. It sucks.

My salt levels are over 9000 and I will destroy every FF, in due time.

 

[Cashual]

How'd I know I'd find Tweedy over here? hahaha. For real though, you're the people's champ bruh. That MU looks awful. Are you supposed to f1 out of the pressure at some point and you just didn't know when? looked hard.

 

[Tweedy]

How'd I know I'd find Tweedy over here? hahaha. For real though, you're the people's champ bruh. That MU looks awful. Are you supposed to f1 out of the pressure at some point and you just didn't know when? looked hard.

I can't do anything.

All I can do, is hope that he does something other than pump up into link. Because of Alien's weird hitbox, the match seriously might be 8-2 or 9-1.

Alien can't play once hit. It's not a matter of "lol it's Alien bro", Alien is obviously good, but his buggy hitbox fucks him here.

Edit: If he does the pump up into link, he'll just continue to build meter, so he can do it again, and I can't jump out or anything. My only chance is that I hit him and kill him before I get hit once.

 

[Tweedy]

Man, people kept telling me that Alien could play and I just didn't know the match.

Just no lol. People need to play this match for themselves. The first time I played Shaolin on stream I knew the match. There's nothing more that I could know. Alien can't play it properly.

The realms will be mine.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

What is Flamefist's worst match up in the game.

@EMPR_MURK

Flamefist destroys Alien so badly and i'm tired of people saying that he doesn't. It's not even that Alien is not good, he's obviously the best, but how can I play when I can't get a jump and punish on the links? I can't armor them or poke, i'll get blasted through. I just have to hold them. It sucks.

My salt levels are over 9000 and I will destroy every FF, in due time.

I can't do anything.

All I can do, is hope that he does something other than pump up into link. Because of Alien's weird hitbox, the match seriously might be 8-2 or 9-1.

Alien can't play once hit. It's not a matter of "lol it's Alien bro", Alien is obviously good, but his buggy hitbox fucks him here.

Edit: If he does the pump up into link, he'll just continue to build meter, so he can do it again, and I can't jump out or anything. My only chance is that I hit him and kill him before I get hit once.

Man, people kept telling me that Alien could play and I just didn't know the match.

Just no lol. People need to play this match for themselves. The first time I played Shaolin on stream I knew the match. There's nothing more that I could know. Alien can't play it properly.

The realms will be mine.

lol man, chill out

You just got destroyed by a Flame Fist? Link?

And the worst Flame Fist's match up is Piercing (3-7) - Kang can't zone her, and she stops all Flame Fist's options in a close range.

 

[Tweedy]

lol man, chill out

You just got destroyed by a Flame Fist? Link?

And the worst Flame Fist's match up is Piercing (3-7) - Kang can't zone her, and she stops all Flame Fist's options in a close range.

I don't think it's possible for an Alien to not get destroyed by a Flamefist.

This is the biggest example of a bug that will not get fixed because of how good a character is. The match is easily 2-8. It would be 5-5 if they fixed it. It's not Alien downplay, it's fucking bullshit. It's not as bad as not being able to block low in a match, but it's close to that.

 

[Cossner]

@Tweedy

Stop posting.

 

[Tweedy]

@Tweedy

Stop posting.

I'm not wrong man.

I gave this MU two months after I realized how totally fucked Alien is due to his weird hitbox. Play it.

I've gotten every solution from whoever I could talk to. It's like 2-8.

 

[Cossner]

I'm not wrong man.

I gave this MU two months after I realized how totally fucked Alien is due to his weird hitbox. Play it.

I've gotten every solution from whoever I could talk to. It's like 2-8.

You're VERY, VERY wrong.

 

[Orangutan]

I'm not wrong man.

I gave this MU two months after I realized how totally fucked Alien is due to his weird hitbox. Play it.

I've gotten every solution from whoever I could talk to. It's like 2-8.

nah ssh. 5-5, get gud

 

[LaidbackOne]

Wasn't this guy supposed to go away for some time? Go away.

 

[NaCl man]

Alien scrub lol

 

[Gustavness]

Tweedy is correct. Flame fist does body every single variation of alien, and its not even close.

 

[Tweedy]

Remember when Lao's 112124 had a buggy gap that didn't get fixed because "lol Lao is the best bro he doesn't need fixes".

This is that times 10.

I'm not saying Alien is bad or isn't #1. He's just not allowed to play the post WP guessing game like every other character can.

It might not be 2-8, I might have overreacted, but it's probably 3-7.

 

[STRYKIE]

Remember when Lao's 112124 had a buggy gap that didn't get fixed because "lol Lao is the best bro he doesn't need fixes".

This is that times 10.

I'm not saying Alien is bad or isn't #1. He's just not allowed to play the post WP guessing game like every other character can.

It might not be 2-8, I might have overreacted, but it's probably 3-7.

Well the problem is as far as I can see is that you haven't actually specified what Flame Fist does to abuse Alien's "buggy" hitbox.

On a meterless blocked WP, isn't reversal EX blade spin fast enough to stuff a cancel into Shaolin Flame before it even activates, meaning Liu can't counter armor with EX WP?

That being said, I guess Liu has enough in the tank that he wouldn't lose to Alien either way.

 

[Tweedy]

Well the problem is as far as I can see is that you haven't actually specified what Flame Fist does to abuse Alien's "buggy" hitbox.

On a meterless blocked WP, isn't reversal EX blade spin fast enough to stuff a cancel into Shaolin Flame before it even activates, meaning Liu can't counter armor with EX WP?

That being said, I guess Liu has enough in the tank that he wouldn't lose to Alien either way.

Alien has a lower hitbox, so he can't jump out.

Jumping out blows up parry, any dd1 cancel, and sometimes db2, for a lot of characters.

It's not as bad as playing a 50/50 character and not being able to block overhead. It's like a few steps away from that, though. I know all the options. I know it's possible to just frame a poke punish if he does EX buff, I know I can punish low fireball and do this and that. It's still horrible.

You could never get hit in the match, or get lucky, get out, and not get hit again. But I mean, Liu already does all right vs Alien anyways, ya know? Punishes everything, breaks armor. Tarkatan is probably better because of EX spin and standing 2 but he has to go after Liu. It sucks.

I'd like to see Sonic play Ejara with Alien on RHS or something. Obviously people aren't going to listen to me, but I know what i'm talking about. It's been 2 months since I realized how fucked Alien is in this match. I'm at the breaking point. I'm tired of people telling me that Alien does fine.

Ejara is the guy that won West Coast Warzone btw. I'm not sure what name he went under then, it was something different, though. I don't think it's possible for an Alien to beat him.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

@SylverRye would be in shambles if he was reading these posts right now.

 

[Tweedy]

@SylverRye would be in shambles if he was reading these posts right now.

We've been talking about it all day.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

We've been talking about it all day.

And he thinks FF Liu beats Alien 7-3?

 

[Folux182]

Alien has a lower hitbox, so he can't jump out.

Jumping out blows up parry, any dd1 cancel, and sometimes db2, for a lot of characters.

It's not as bad as playing a 50/50 character and not being able to block overhead. It's like a few steps away from that, though. I know all the options. I know it's possible to just frame a poke punish if he does EX buff, I know I can punish low fireball and do this and that. It's still horrible.

You could never get hit in the match, or get lucky, get out, and not get hit again. But I mean, Liu already does all right vs Alien anyways, ya know? Punishes everything, breaks armor. Tarkatan is probably better because of EX spin and standing 2 but he has to go after Liu. It sucks.

I'd like to see Sonic play Ejara with Alien on RHS or something. Obviously people aren't going to listen to me, but I know what i'm talking about. It's been 2 months since I realized how fucked Alien is in this match. I'm at the breaking point. I'm tired of people telling me that Alien does fine.

Ejara is the guy that won West Coast Warzone btw. I'm not sure what name he went under then, it was something different, though. I don't think it's possible for an Alien to beat him.

He went by Shinobi Shaolin as he still does. He's one of my training partners and, to his credit, plays a meaaaaan flame fist. He's a really smart player, it pisses me off haha I don't find any real success using alien against him. Its pretty brutal. Once he's in, I'm dead.