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Zangief General Discussion Thread

countrypistol

countrypistol

Kombatant
ChoseDeath said:
Don't even worry about F.A.N.G. buddy, it's not nearly that bad. It's just annoying. You can jump in, his little fireball trap to EX slide-escape-thing doesn't work because of reversal SPD, and he has to hit us 100 times to win. Of course he can keep us out and has way better frame advantage, but he can't keep pressure going ad infinitum like some people around here...

5-5 once you learn it I say!

So we only get 7-3'd four times? Damn we're awesome!!!.......... :(
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I know, right! Time and time again I have to remind myself that I am playing the character with the toughest match ups, and one that requires a lot of mental effort. There's no easy win with Gief, you either outplay your opponent or you don't. I can usually start an evening off playing quite well, but as I get tired and tunnel vision sets in, those 7:3's and 6:4's become demoralising pretty quickly.

I've just started playing ranked properly for the first time since release. I hate ranked, but battle lounge is a mess, casual too barren, and my offline scene harder to get to now things have changed at home. Playing Gief against laggy opponents, not being able to block or punish optimally or v skill through 1-2 frame gaps, seriously restricts him. Those doable 6:4's become 7:3's pretty damn quickly when I can't play my reactive game, or punish optimally

And once again, fuck Juri. Played a gold player in battle lounge, and even though each match came down to the wire, and close to a time out, it was obvious who had the advantage and who was being made to work for it.
 
Sutter Pain

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
I have played vs a decent amount of matches vs juri with @Johnny San and I don't know what to think about it yet. Whoever got the life lead first just ran away almost every round went to time out lol. Whenever juri stored a charge though I whiffed a spd to build meter and that seemed to help quite a bit.

Edit: I never knew this thread existed gonna go back a read up on it. Looks like there is a bit of matchup tips I for sure could use.
 
countrypistol

countrypistol

Kombatant
The issue is more that she her zoning beats pretty much all of Gief's anti zoning tools, and her block strings are long, multi hitting affairs that contain mix ups in and off themselves, and will break armour if you guess wrong. If she spaces her pokes well, you won't be able to absorb and grab, and a good player will not let Gief jump in. I also got hit with a lot of low fireball-jump in/ambiguous cross up mix ups, that seemed to go into confirms that pushed Gief out of range to punish.

I've seen Juri players saying Gief beats her, but from what I can tell he only beats her if they go ham and just throw stuff out to get damage. Not many people play Gief, so not many people know how to play against him, and make a lot of mistakes that would otherwise work against the other command grab characters.

Of course, I could be wrong. I haven't got Juri's frame data, so I don't know what can be punished with what. Maybe her pressure is fake and full of holes. If it is, then bring it. If it isn't, then maybe I'll start a Dhalsim sub forum...
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
countrypistol said:
The issue is more that she her zoning beats pretty much all of Gief's anti zoning tools, and her block strings are long, multi hitting affairs that contain mix ups in and off themselves, and will break armour if you guess wrong. If she spaces her pokes well, you won't be able to absorb and grab, and a good player will not let Gief jump in. I also got hit with a lot of low fireball-jump in/ambiguous cross up mix ups, that seemed to go into confirms that pushed Gief out of range to punish.

I've seen Juri players saying Gief beats her, but from what I can tell he only beats her if they go ham and just throw stuff out to get damage. Not many people play Gief, so not many people know how to play against him, and make a lot of mistakes that would otherwise work against the other command grab characters.

Of course, I could be wrong. I haven't got Juri's frame data, so I don't know what can be punished with what. Maybe her pressure is fake and full of holes. If it is, then bring it. If it isn't, then maybe I'll start a Dhalsim sub forum...
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I know her little flip kick is punishable, and the EX launcher one can be beaten by mashing cr Jab. LK Senpusha seems to be safe. Every time she does her charged MK attack, SPD that bitch on block. That's all so far. I've beaten every Juri I've played, but they keep doing dumb shit. Then I'll get locked in block stun for half an hour, and my friend hit me with some two meter combo that I swear to god took 400 health. So once they get this shit figured out we're in trouble.
 
countrypistol

countrypistol

Kombatant
ChoseDeath said:
I know her little flip kick is punishable, and the EX launcher one can be beaten by mashing cr Jab. LK Senpusha seems to be safe. Every time she does her charged MK attack, SPD that bitch on block. That's all so far. I've beaten every Juri I've played, but they keep doing dumb shit. Then I'll get locked in block stun for half an hour, and my friend hit me with some two meter combo that I swear to god took 400 health. So once they get this shit figured out we're in trouble.
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Have you found the flip kick to have a weird amount of block stun? You can SPD punish, but it's really easy to do it too early and have nothing come out. You can churn butter I suppose, but I don't like doing that.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
countrypistol said:
Have you found the flip kick to have a weird amount of block stun? You can SPD punish, but it's really easy to do it too early and have nothing come out. You can churn butter I suppose, but I don't like doing that.
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It's the same as MKX, a move will say "-9" on block but that -9 starts 6 frames after you think you can move.

Yeah, I think it's weird too. And the hell with it, I'll churn butter like its the year 1748 in this bitch if I know a move is punishable! I have zero problems churning or mashing.

But if you don't want to go that and keep going too early, do 1.5 rotations (540°). As soon as you block, just a smooth rotation and you should nail it.
 
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JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
countrypistol said:
Have you found the flip kick to have a weird amount of block stun? You can SPD punish, but it's really easy to do it too early and have nothing come out. You can churn butter I suppose, but I don't like doing that.
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I was just about to ask about this, I find it odd to try and punish due to the stun.

Also I think Juri only loses if the player is stupid, she is too fast or safe to lock down or sometimes punish especially if she has the stores.
The Vskill, while punishable on block is an easy escape (Just smash her with an EX SPD, M or H will not reach from what I have tested)
 
countrypistol

countrypistol

Kombatant
JJvercetti said:
I was just about to ask about this, I find it odd to try and punish due to the stun.

Also I think Juri only loses if the player is stupid, she is too fast or safe to lock down or sometimes punish especially if she has the stores.
The Vskill, while punishable on block is an easy escape (Just smash her with an EX SPD, M or H will not reach from what I have tested)
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Yeah, I agree. Played them in ranked, they lost out of stupidity. Just because you can go ham, doesn't mean you should. But the player I played in battle lounge knew his shit, had a real solid ground game, and just pressured me with zoning and block strings that always put him out of range. I was able to slowly do damage, but the matches ended up close to time outs, or ended almost as quickly as they began if I guessed wrong or got impatient.

That said, I'm looking forward to figuring it out. Can't wait to upset a bunch a Juri players who see Gief at the loading screen and think 'oh, this'll be easy'.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
countrypistol said:
Yeah, I agree. Played them in ranked, they lost out of stupidity. Just because you can go ham, doesn't mean you should. But the player I played in battle lounge knew his shit, had a real solid ground game, and just pressured me with zoning and block strings that always put him out of range. I was able to slowly do damage, but the matches ended up close to time outs, or ended almost as quickly as they began if I guessed wrong or got impatient.

That said, I'm looking forward to figuring it out. Can't wait to upset a bunch a Juri players who see Gief at the loading screen and think 'oh, this'll be easy'.
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@JJvercetti
Know what's really frustrating? I just got out of the lab and you can punish damn near every poke she has on block with an EX shoryuken (of course) so they must all be -3 or worse. Damned Dragon Punch.

So after some testing, any regular flip kick can be reversal SPD punished, EX cannot. Cr Fierce can be SPD punished, but you can special cancel it, so we're stuck with jab again unless you have a hard read. Stored roundhouse kick can be SPD punished, stored forward can as well. Fuck that fireball in the ear, it's really hard to deal with. Any of her kicks (the version to store) are safe but have no range. I think standing forward being two hits will poke us to absolute oblivion.

That's it so far!
 
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FL Rushdown

FL Rushdown

Champion
ChoseDeath said:
@JJvercetti
Know what's really frustrating? I just got out of the lab and you can punish damn near every poke she has on block with an EX shoryuken (of course) so they must all be -4 or worse. Damned Dragon Punch.

So after some testing, any regular flip kick can be reversal SPD punished, EX cannot. Cr Fierce can be SPD punished, but you can special cancel it, so we're stuck with jab again unless you have a hard read. Stored roundhouse kick can be SPD punished, stored forward cannot. Fuck that fireball in the ear, it's really hard to deal with. Any of her kicks (the version to store) are safe but have no range. I think standing forward being two hits will poke us to absolute oblivion.

That's it so far!
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ex dp punishing doesn't mean they're -4. Ex dp is 3 frame startup so they could be minus 3, otherwise Ryu would be punishing with st lk x whatever.
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
While playing against Juri this morning, I caught her flip kick on its landing frames. I dont know if it was due to rollback or something but it looks weird. I'll trim and post the vid as soon as I get on PS4
 
countrypistol

countrypistol

Kombatant
Has anybody else had that move break charged heavy punches armour as though it hits low? Chun's similar looking overhead has appeared to have done it a few times too.
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
countrypistol said:
Has anybody else had that move break charged heavy punches armour as though it hits low? Chun's similar looking overhead has appeared to have done it a few times too.
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I dont think that has happened to me. BTW Mika dropkick can still break Giefs V-Skill sometimes,
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I've been playing Zangief since beta 1 and I think he's LP normals are too strong and do with a slight nerf. Tone down his speed and health a bit too.
 
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