Discussion MY MKXL PATCH LIST FOR KP3 (Post Yours)

[Eddy Wang]

It gave the impression that REO thinks that Disjointed Hitboxes are bad for the game, damn you AAAQUAMAAAN!

My suggestion would be

The juggle difference really needs to go at once, standing or crouching the height should be the same.
No d1 can low profile standing highs anymore
better recover and distance coverage to many of the bad backdashes.
All jump attacks are now -3 when blocked, can still be canceled into strings, but its not guaranteed anymore
Every single projectile or special move disappears when a character gets hit.


Bo' Rai Cho
Slightly better run speed

Drunken Master
Drinking now stacks, instead of 10 seconds with each drink, it now adds 10 seconds to the additional remaining time.
Able to Drink while in meditate stance
New command Drink and sleep: d,d1hold down (bo' Rai Cho takes a sip on his drink, and goes into meditate stance)
DB2 can now be canceled into drinking
able to drink cancel F3,1+3 even after lvl1 of drunkness is activated, making him go into meditate stance if down is held after the throw.
F2 now hits mid.

Kung Lao
Slightly Better walkback speed.
better hitbox on 11212 to prevent whiffing when blocked.
better hitbox on 112124 to prevent whiffing
(Hatless) DU2 has less air stall after it hits for easy conversion
Less air restriction to land ud3 has a combo starter.
ex DU can now be consistently activacted when canceled off of a jump attack on hit
ex DU when delayed now can be held back to emerge away from the opponent, or held Forward to emerge close if he moves, if stand still, emerges from the opposite side.

Buzzsaw
Ex BF2 now launches opponents when it hits them on the ground
DF2 and BF2 now stalls the opponents longer if the hat hits them in the air to guarantee conversions followups.

Hat Trick (Sorry, but this var needs a lot of work)
New command dd2F (allows to place the above trap in front of Kung Lao)
New command dd2B (allows to place the above trap Behind Kung Lao)
Call Back is now -5 on block down from -7 (come on, KL can reversal punish it)
Better hitbox on hat to hit breathing and crouching hurtboxes when HCB is activated.
(Hatless) 11212~HCB(away/above/ In front but no guaranteed hit) now allows to connect 44, F32, and run cancel 11212 on hit.

Jacqui
better height on some of her juggles

Liu Kang
Dualist
stance button now detonates the dark balls from the level 1 to level 3 when on screen.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

My main character is Liu Kang, so I'll comment about the changes that you've proposed for him.

Liu Kang:
- Hurtbox on D+3 slighty increased.

Agreed. It low profiles everything... I love to use it, but I have to admit that it's stupid.

- U+4 is now a high.
- U+4 start up now changed to 10 frames.
- U+4 now has a slightly increased upward hitbox.

Agreed. This way Kang's U4 would be a good anti-air

- The last hit of Snapping Dragon (1,1,2) now has less pushback on hit.

Nice... it would benefit a lot the Dualist variation because he could do 1,1,2 into stance switch into stading 1 without the needing to do a run to combo!

Dualist:
- All Solar Flare projectiles drain one bar of energy from the opponent on hit. (energy = stamina for running)
- All Solar Flare projectile types drain half of a bar of energy from the opponent on block.

Very nice idea! This way, Dualist's zoning would be very good

- Yin (D,B+3) now also replenishes Liu Kang's stamina bar to full after the ending animation.

Cool. But it needs to heal faster. I suggest 1% while Liu Kang helds the healing and 3% when he ends the healing. High risk/high reward.

- EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with.
- All Soul Spheres now absorb 1 projectile that they collide with only when Yang (D,B+3) buff is active.
- EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) no longer counts as a projectile and cannot be negated or absorbed by any other projectile based attack.

Yeah! That's sick

- All Soul Spheres now have a slightly increased hitbox on the explosion.

Yes! The biggest problems of the orbs is their hitbox on the explosion that at this moment is very small...
AND when Liu Kang puts and stop them instantly on the screen, they stay too far from Liu Kang and that's a huge issue
Look:

Dragon Fire:
- Dragon Fire now has 3 frames of added delay before you can cancel out of it on block. (this does not affect any current dash cancel combos and there is no delay on Hit)

Agreed, because Dragon's Fire is still too strong .

- Flying Kick~MB (B,F+2~Meter Burn) hitbox adjusted so it no longer whiffs or switches sides against certain characters crouch blocking.

Yeah! I hate when that happens

- Instant air Soul Spheres have recovery reduced.

Yeah! Because at this moment the air Soul Spheres are USELESS

Another thing that needs to be fixed in Liu Kang is his fireballs in the Flame Fist variation because their hitbox are very small.

Look:

 

[Darkling]

Agree with 95%, but Shinnok not able to throw after Mimicry may be an over-nerf, just remove guaranteed Ferra/Torr throw. And please buff Necromancer
I doubt NRS will make all weapon (Bo's stick, Dvorah limb, Takeda sabers and whips,...) to have hurtbox, first that may be really complicated for programmer to change the whole thing, secondly I think NRS intended to have that in the first place

 

[RM AtK!]

Weapons shouldn't have hit boxes. If Takeda whip had a hurt box wouldn't that be weird looking? You punish from half screen by touching the whip??

The hurtbox this is a huge "NO" form me. I like how there are characters in this game like D'Vorah and Alien that have these safe pokes and stuff. We do not need to make everything have hurtboxes and using her pole on one side of the stage and having someone neutral JP it or something will not only suck it would look stoooopid as hell. This idea is just terrible.

Apart from that the rest of these look ok to me. I think this variation is actually still pretty awesome, just under used. It made it to top 8 I think in Viennality vs some stiff competition but as far as I know there is only a few even using it, even before she was nurffed.

Tayna was hit and hit HARD by the nurff bat and I really hope she is given a little something especially in this variation that is so fun and spectacular to watch.

I have more to say but wife just called for me to go pick up the kids... bbl to post more (after i wade though all the hate! Gotta love TYM!)

MKX first fighter confirmed.. bruh thats called footsies my friend

 

[21122]

MKX first fighter confirmed.. bruh thats called footsies my friend

Actually MK9 was my first fighter and DOA5 my first real fighter that I got heavily into.

 

[jmt]

Your demo nerfs are pretty brutal. Definitely not on board with that.

 

[RM AtK!]

I



The hurtbox this is a huge "NO" form me. I like how there are characters in this game like D'Vorah and Alien that have these safe pokes and stuff. We do not need to make everything have hurtboxes and using her pole on one side of the stage and having someone neutral JP it or something will not only suck it would look stoooopid as hell. This idea is just terrible.

Apart from that the rest of these look ok to me. I think this variation is actually still pretty awesome, just under used. It made it to top 8 I think in Viennality vs some stiff competition but as far as I know there is only a few even using it, even before she was nurffed.

Tayna was hit and hit HARD by the nurff bat and I really hope she is given a little something especially in this variation that is so fun and spectacular to watch.

I have more to say but wife just called for me to go pick up the kids... bbl to post more (after i wade though all the hate! Gotta love TYM!)

Actually MK9 was my first fighter and DOA5 my first real fighter that I got heavily into.

weird cuz mk9 half screen normals without hurtboxes weren't in the game.. that's a terrible mechanic for competitive fighters.


wiff punishing is a terrible idea

 

[the.hamburglar]

My main character is Liu Kang, so I'll comment about the changes that you've proposed for him.



Agreed. It low profiles everything... I love to use it, but I have to admit that it's stupid.



Agreed. This way Kang's U4 would be a good anti-air



Nice... it would benefit a lot the Dualist variation because he could do 1,1,2 into stance switch into stading 1 without the needing to do a run to combo!



Very nice idea! This way, Dualist's zoning would be very good



Cool. But it needs to heal faster. I suggest 1% while Liu Kang helds the healing and 3% when he ends the healing.



Yeah! That's sick



Yes! The biggest problems of the orbs is their hitbox on the explosion that at this moment is very small...
AND when Liu Kang puts and stop them instantly on the screen, they stay too far from Liu Kang and that's a huge issue
Look:

Agreed, because Dragon's Fire is still too strong .



Yeah! I hate when that happens



Yeah! Because at this moment the air Soul Spheres are USELESS

Another thing that needs to be fixed in Liu Kang is his fireballs in the Flame Fist variation because their hitbox are very small.

Look:

I cannot agree with the dragons fire is too strong. Ive mained him for a while and been through a good amount of changes and when Kharacters like D'Vorah and Cage exist, I don't think its fair to nerf his cancels because theirs will still be more plus than his. If they're say plus 22 ( not sure the exact numbers) and kang is 14, it would still make theirs alot more plus than Kangs. Not sure if I make sense

 

[DDutchguy]

I think most of these changes are good, but you really have to be careful about certain attacks no longer building meter for the opponent on block REO. Taking Blood God as an example, he would get some massive matchup shifts as meter-reliant characters such as Thunder God Raiden are now screwed vs Blood God because Blood God's entire gameplan is to always have a totem on the screen, thus denying the opponent of his major source of meter building (hitting the opponent on block). Characters that don't need meter per se however get off scot free.

Besides this change for Blood God and Unbreakable, I agree with most of the list. This no-meter-building however is something we have to be very careful about.

 

[Blewdew]

Damn, you put some work into this.

I vote 6. More chances for Kabal.

I think your F/T changes are all reasonable. The character doesn't need huge changes. Personally I would remove the ex Ferra Toss and ex Bowl Girl from Ruthless and maybe give them back double F2 combos like pre-XL. This would create more variety between Ruthless & Vicious.


Also, both these ^ plz NRS.

Uhm double f2 combos in ruthless and vicious? They're only possible in the corner and there is no reason going for it when you got the multiple d1 combos down. It always was more of a swag factor then actually being super useful. But it would be neat if lackey gets them back. Even though roll combos are cool and stuff I really miss doing the f2f2 combos

 

[Syzoth]

Reptile:
- J+4 slightly normalized.

Noxious:
- Acid Spit now has a little bit of ticks that damage the opponent over time on block or hit.
- EX Acid Puddle area of effect is now doubled.
- Reptile can now perform D,D+3 while EX D,D+3+BLK is active.
- Reptile can now perform EX D,D+3+BLK while D,D+3 is active.
- Poison Gas (D,D+3) and Toxic Fumes (EN D,D+3+BLK) now stack with each other.

In a rush didn't get to read all of this but you got Reptile 95% correct in my opinion. The only other thing I would LIKE but certainly isn't absolutely necessary is for stopped forceballs to remain for 2-3 real life seconds longer.
Oh and homie there's still a bug with a forceball vanishing instantly onscreen.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

I cannot agree with the dragons fire is too strong. Ive mained him for a while and been through a good amount of changes and when Kharacters like D'Vorah and Cage exist, I don't think its fair to nerf his cancels because theirs will still be more plus than his. If they're say plus 22 ( not sure the exact numbers) and kang is 14, it would still make theirs alot more plus than Kangs. Not sure if I make sense

The best run cancel of D'Vorah is +12 (f1,2,2 into run cancel)... and about Johnny Cage: yeah, he's got +20 cancels. lol. But just because Johnny Cage is more plus, it does not mean that Dragon's Fire is fair.

Dragon's Fire has a very good zoning, and in a close range he is extremely good - low combo starter that is hit confirmable into 32% damage in midscreen and 35% damage in corner; he can hit confirm everything and on block he is super plus... the main problem is in his F2,1,3 FBRC which is +13, so he can jail it into another F2...

 

[thlityoursloat]

Weapons having hurtboxes is going to plunge Grandmaster into top 5....

 

[Darkling]

I cannot agree with the dragons fire is too strong. Ive mained him for a while and been through a good amount of changes and when Kharacters like D'Vorah and Cage exist, I don't think its fair to nerf his cancels because theirs will still be more plus than his. If they're say plus 22 ( not sure the exact numbers) and kang is 14, it would still make theirs alot more plus than Kangs. Not sure if I make sense

Please stop comparing a single tool in some character. Cage has more plus frame because he does not have good zoning, walk speed, damage as Liu Kang, and he does not have range, puddle of Dvorah. It is like you ask why Takeda pokes are slower than Quan chi pokes (just an example, don't go into details plz), they are pokes right? Or why Shinnok projectile is different than Jax projectile or Takeda projectile, they are all projectiles right? Because each character is different, so their tools must be different.
But I still agree that JC cancel must be toned down a bit (especially cancel on whiff)

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Ferra / Torr:
- All forms of EX Ferra Overhead Toss (D,B+2+BLK)are now -25 on block and have increased whiff recovery.
- EX B,F+2+BLK (Little One Slide) is now -20 on block and has increased whiff recovery.
- Close Overhead Ferra Toss block stun advantage slightly reduced by 3 frames overall.

Lackey:
- The first hit of Torr Smash (D,B+2+BLK) now has increased push back to prevent the second hit from whiffing against certain characters crouch blocking.

Ruthless:
- Pain N' Gain self inflicted damage now increased to 6%.

Was happy to not see "Ferra normals now have hurtboxes" Ferra being a seperate (and powerful) entity from Torr is a defining part of the character. Whiff recovery on Ferra tosses is pretty bad already, and the EX versions are already pretty minus IIRC, but I could see it being increased a bit to make punishes easier, we're way too safe (in R/V). Honestly I feel like just removing them from Ruthless is enough of a nerf. I always feel like a dick doing a buffed combo with a fullscreen bowl girl starter. Vicious needs it while Ruthless just abuses the shit out of it. OH plus frames were already addressed in the last patch by changing the hitbox and increasing the time for Ferra to return, so nerfing that is going to far IMO.

One buff I would like to add to lackey is increase opponents recovery frames if we eat a projectile (not armour through), or even just slightly increase Torr's run speed. at full screen bf3 is just about our only option to close the gap meterlessly. The first 4 frames of it are projectile immune, and god damnit have I put a lot of work into getting that timing down, its hard to do when you think about all the different speeds that projectiles travel. Its disheartening to know you got that frame perfect start only to have your opponent recover and jump out/throw another projectile and ruin your approach. I don't want a guaranteed hit from full screen, but just enough that another projectile or normal can't be thrown out. It's -10 on block so its not like we get a free run and start pressuring. OR does the fact that EX bf3 has super armour mean buffing bf3 is out of the question??

 

[ILuvFightGames]

After reading through the character specific stuff I agree with like 90% it, that would be really awesome if this was the actual patch.

The only stuff I wouldnt agree with is some characters that aren't top tier received nerfs, Ive always been a believer that only top tiers deserve to be nerfed. If they're mid tier or low tier, why any nerfs at all lol

I completely agree with this, the list is good but I saw nerfs on characters that can barely survive as it is.

 

[SM StarGazer]

Seeing as Kitana has no TRUE mixups outside of x-ray and idiots getting hit by raw ExAirGlaive, I wouldn't mind Mournful becoming a Fireballrun-cancel character.

And a gaddamn Staff Grab brutality. I been pressing like...ALL the buttons.

 

[Renzokuken]

I'd like to know what Kung Jin did to REO to warrant this kind of punishment.

 

[myri]

Bo Rai' Cho:

Drunken Master:
- Each Drink now causes Bo Rai' Cho to take 5% reduced damage. Maximum of three stacks and 15% total damage reduction.

REO you absolute madman.

I mean, I play Bo a lot so I'll take that buff if it comes along but y'know.

 

[Blewdew]

Was happy to not see "Ferra normals now have hurtboxes" Ferra being a seperate (and powerful) entity from Torr is a defining part of the character. Whiff recovery on Ferra tosses is pretty bad already, and the EX versions are already pretty minus IIRC, but I could see it being increased a bit to make punishes easier, we're way too safe (in R/V). Honestly I feel like just removing them from Ruthless is enough of a nerf. I always feel like a dick doing a buffed combo with a fullscreen bowl girl starter. Vicious needs it while Ruthless just abuses the shit out of it. OH plus frames were already addressed in the last patch by changing the hitbox and increasing the time for Ferra to return, so nerfing that is going to far IMO.

One buff I would like to add to lackey is increase opponents recovery frames if we eat a projectile (not armour through), or even just slightly increase Torr's run speed. at full screen bf3 is just about our only option to close the gap meterlessly. The first 4 frames of it are projectile immune, and god damnit have I put a lot of work into getting that timing down, its hard to do when you think about all the different speeds that projectiles travel. Its disheartening to know you got that frame perfect start only to have your opponent recover and jump out/throw another projectile and ruin your approach. I don't want a guaranteed hit from full screen, but just enough that another projectile or normal can't be thrown out. It's -10 on block so its not like we get a free run and start pressuring. OR does the fact that EX bf3 has super armour mean buffing bf3 is out of the question??

The ex Versions Are -19 atm but super hard to punish. When Blocked Low and then high the oh is even safe (haven't tested it on reptile yet though)

 

[the.hamburglar]

Please stop comparing a single tool in some character. Cage has more plus frame because he does not have good zoning, walk speed, damage as Liu Kang, and he does not have range, puddle of Dvorah. It is like you ask why Takeda pokes are slower than Quan chi pokes (just an example, don't go into details plz), they are pokes right? Or why Shinnok projectile is different than Jax projectile or Takeda projectile, they are all projectiles right? Because each character is different, so their tools must be different.
But I still agree that JC cancel must be toned down a bit (especially cancel on whiff)

I can agree but to lower his plus frames dont make any sense when they can keep theirs at a good rate. While he may not have decent walk speed, he still remains to be one of the top 5 characters and he does have decent zoning too( besides the whiffing mid) but overall I just hope they dont nerf Kang anymore than they need to

The best run cancel of D'Vorah is +12 (f1,2,2 into run cancel)... and about Johnny Cage: yeah, he's got +20 cancels. lol. But just because Johnny Cage is more plus, it does not mean that Dragon's Fire is fair.

Dragon's Fire has a very good zoning, and in a close range he is extremely good - low combo starter that is hit confirmable into 32% damage in midscreen and 35% damage in corner; he can hit confirm everything and on block he is super plus... the main problem is in his F2,1,3 FBRC which is +13, so he can jail it into another F2...

good ol times when dragon kick MB was plus 2

 

[XxSYNDROISxX]

Goro:
- EX Punch Walk is now -6 on block.
- EX B,F+1+BLK now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with. (Kuatan Warrior and Dragon Fangs only)

Kuatan Warrior:
- EX Ground Pound is now +2 on hit.
- You can now choose the side of where you want to throw your opponent after EX B,F+2+BLK (Chest Charge) on hit.

Tigrar Fury:
- Block advantage on Dragon Breath reduced by 2 frames.
- The first hit of EX Dragon Torch no longer pushes the opponent back on block.
- The second hit of EX Dragon Torch no longer pushes the opponent back on block.
- The second hit animation of EX Dragon Torch is now replaced with the first hit animation of EX Dragon Torch.
- The last hit of Flame Chain (EX B,F+1+BLK) is now a mid.

Hell no

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Crystalline low shatter being -15 I don't necessarily agree.

Tremor would also benefit more from d1 being 7 frames instead of 8. He could contend in the poke game against more of the cast. That OR make b1 a 12-14 frame mid instead of 19.

I don't see the equality in further nerfing the shatters without looking at the rest of the character/variation

After Shock dd1 not going away if he were to block something for instance. Or reducing recovery on db3 for instance.

As far as Ermac goes, I'm not surprised to see Mystic's ex Push being thrown under the bus again. Personally I think Ermac is fine the way he is but I may be in the minority there.

Overall I agree more with the universal gameplay mechanics

 

[SmokingWarrior]

For Johnny Cage i would like two things :

Fix his hitboxe issues and remove the possibility to poke between Stunt double's EX force balls

 

[Invincible Salads]

i don't like a lot of what im seeing in this list tbh, all the making whips and swords have hurt boxes is dumb imho and shouldnt happen. A-list basically losing all his jailing pressure would kinda suck. in fact any of the cancel nerfs up there im not too fond of.

dvorah puddle im ok with being only +10 so long as the ex version gets to keep its +21 advantage, it has a slightly longer startup anyways.

i can't help but feel the whole hurtbox issue stems from ice klone and people who basically want the clone to be this impassable wall of ice. I don't think that it should be and characters like subzero could recieve buffs in other areas that could help him deal with disjointed hitboxes a bit better, rather than simply removing them all.

also, the shinnok hellsparks nerf? not being able to meterburn the last hit, even when theres already a gap? nthx.