DLC plans + pay to unlock

[RoboCop]

I keep hearing "the gear isn't for competitive play". Where was it confirmed this was said?

Boon basically confirmed it. I'm on my phone so I'm not searching for the clip, but it's out there.

It would be such a monumentally stupid idea to allow gear to affect competitive play that even after the way WB screwed over PC players, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt here. No one could be that greedy and batshit insane.

 

[buyacushun]

Boon basically confirmed it. I'm on my phone so I'm not searching for the clip, but it's out there.

It would be such a monumentally stupid idea to allow gear to affect competitive play that even after the way WB screwed over PC players, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt here. No one could be that greedy and batshit insane.

Yeah but then SFxT happened. I miss that game so much. Hopefully NRS learned from Capcom's mistake but I've seen some of their other design decisions where I'm not too sure they pay attention to anything outside of when a game releases and how well it did.

How is it fun to just have everything unlocked from the start? Fuck that. I feel like the replay value is increased tenfold when you can unlock different pieces of gear after each fight. Shit, I play characters I don't even like in MKX just to unlock their icons, backgrounds and borders.

I'm sure there will be some really good legendary level gear to unlock. I'll be pumped when I finally unlock a beard for Aquaman (there damn well better be a beard for Aquaman, btw. And long hair. And a hook hand).

I feel the opposite when it comes to gameplay related items. It's very difficult to piecemeal game changing things without it feeling like a grind to actually play the game. It's one of the things I dislike about CoD and it's gotten to absurd levels in that game imo. I get why people like unlocks, just not when it's things like perks or in this case possibly moves. That is, if any of the gear actually changes moves like SSB4. If it changes things and makes matches like test your luck then it's whatever to me when I get a certain gear and effect.

I meant to quote you way before but I read the rest of the thread and had my rant and completely forgot lol.

For anyone taking the game seriously, it's just a bonus way to make your character look cool. And guess what, I'm fucking glad they gave a pay-to-unlock option; I'm a grown-ass man who already shouldn't be playing so many video games, and I certainly don't have the time or patience to grind that shit out.

Are you saying you'd pay to unlock gear even if it had no relevance in the main "tournament standard" game?

 

[RoboCop]

Are you saying you'd pay to unlock gear even if it had no relevance in the main "tournament standard" game?

Absolutely. I'm a big fan of visual customization.

 

[buyacushun]

Absolutely. I'm a big fan of visual customization.

Yeah get that. Some people really like their costumes. Can't say I've never been jealous of some cool costumes for characters I play and don't play. If there isn't a way to play with the gear having just a visual effect (basicay you have to play with gear effects on for it to show) would you not buy it?

I doubt they'd do that but no one knows much at this point.

 

[RonnyRAGE]

I think we will be given say 500 points and we can spread them a crossed offense, Defense, Specials etc. so everyone is on a neutral playing field. We just get to customize how we want to spend them. Games are made to make money NRS knows there customers.

 

[Law Hero]

So long as there isn't any gear that's DLC exclusive, I don't really care.

If the game is fun, then I'll play it enough to unlock everything I want. Just like with the Krypt unlock, I don't mind that people can pay to unlock it all, but for me, that ruins all the fun, and I enjoyed the game enough to want to unlock it all myself the right way. I really don't even care if it gives some people an early advantage since there'll be an "even playing field" mode anyway while you unlock all the stuff you want.

To me, the only unforgivable offense would be locking certain gears (particularly any especially strong ones) behind a paywall. I don't mind buying costumes if they're aesthetic, but it infuriates me to be at a tactical disadvantage--one that I can never overcome by playing the game properly--simply because I refused to shell out additional money.

 

[RexxyC]

Have you people never played a Soul Calibur game? This gear system has already been done. Guess what? The gear boosts will only affect casual players. If the idea of some 12 year old with his mom's credit card beating you online is really giving you night sweats, I really don't know what to tell you, other than you will absolutely be able to enjoy the game and never have to experience the boost system. Consider gear boosts in I2 the equivalent of that MKX mode no one ever played, where you can get hit by random effects and Cyrax bombs and shit. You will never have to experience it if you don't want to.

For anyone taking the game seriously, it's just a bonus way to make your character look cool. And guess what, I'm fucking glad they gave a pay-to-unlock option; I'm a grown-ass man who already shouldn't be playing so many video games, and I certainly don't have the time or patience to grind that shit out.

So cool your jets, take a deep breath, and know that everything will be ok.

Careful there, you don't wanna be too reasonable, you might get in an argument with some of the man-children on this website who don't understand the concept of having a life past video games.

 

[Vithar]

The gear won't be used for competitive play but ... milking the poor people gets more disgusting with every day.

 

[RexxyC]

The gear won't be used for competitive play but ... milking the poor people gets more disgusting with every day.

In which way is this "milking the poor people"?

 

[Rathalos]

I keep hearing "the gear isn't for competitive play". Where was it confirmed this was said? Seems to me there are strong implications that gear is in tourney mode, but in a "balanced" way.

As far as I know there is supposed to be a mode that caters to tournament players, with no specifics how the gear involved plays out. I haven't heard anything about "tournament mode is gearless" or anything, so likely it's gonna be some managed version of "balanced gear options" or such. If gear was statistically uninvolved in tourney mode they would have said it.

While that may cause issues in itself, any option that involves paying for gear in competitive play will permanently kill the game for me, so hopefully that isn't the route. If it was "all these gear give you a +5 in a different stat in tourney mode, pick one", then yea it would work. If it's "buy a gear to reach the tourney mode max, but casuals can go even higher in other modes" then it will turn a lot of people off.

Time will tell.

As Karaoke said, Boon and several others kinda basically said the tournament mode will just use base characters.

Tournament mode has to be baseline characters, leveling out gear simply isn't good enough.
As shown by SFxT, any system that lets you select stuff like this is a logistical nightmare for tournaments.

Even if there is some kind of mode that try's to make gear viable for tournaments, TO's will just ban it because it takes up too much time between matches.
Combined with NRS button checks, and the PS4 constantly shitting itself, it would takes days to run a 20 man tournament.

People always suggest stuff like having a USB drive with their characters data on it, but that would never work, half of these yahoos can barely get their controllers to work.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

1. Paying for GEAR is a non issue for anyone looking to play this game competitively. Even if GEAR is used in tournament standard, we'll make our own regulations to prevent BS.

2. If you're someone looking to dabble in a bit of competitive play and a bit of online fuckery with GEAR then it's still likely a non-issue. You're on TYM, you're networking with other players. Find someone to play games with (like you already do) and be reasonable with GEAR choices (if they actually release 'broken' GEAR).

3. If you're just looking to smash online ranked with your buffed characters then maybe paying for certain gear options is a shit concept. We have no idea the extent of what the GEAR will do, so even arguing that it could be "pay to win" is impossible right now. I'd wager that if their drop system is similar to Diablo you won't be able to buy specific pieces of gear, maybe you can buy "booster packs" or something with odds to roll an item of a particular rarity. Or maybe there's Unique pieces of GEAR that you can get, but may have slightly randomised stats within some attribute pool (similar to Uniques in Path of Exile). Either way we know none of this information at this point.

4. I understand it's bad design to force mindless grinding as the means to obtain good items (and I don't support it), but part of me is excited by the prospect of trying to beat people with severely underlevelled/underGEARed characters. I do think that this strategy of unlocks and grind/paywalls is a free to play model, and hope that if NRS do take this approach that it's done appropriately.

5. Businesses need to make money, and NRS have done a fantastic job of putting money back into the community with their ESL tournaments (3 seasons in one year! And no I don't care that Fox has most of the money, point is we still got something awesome out of it.) How much money are businesses/their staff allowed to make before they meet our moral standards?

I'm sure there's more that I forgot to address but I think the key things to take home are that we really don't know enough about the GEAR system to judge the way the implement it (fuck, even NRS probably doesn't know that much about the system), and that as players who take NRS games even slightly more serious than casual players, we'll still end up with a game we enjoy.

All of this is coming from the perspective of someone who is excited by the prospect of GEAR improving player retention, increasing the odds of casual players being interested in the competitive scene and consequently wanting to be involved in our offline communities. I think there's room for sooooo much potential growth here. If giving people options to pay for things increases their odds of sticking around, do it. I'm not going to give a shit since we, the community, will dictate the rules by which we play the game.

Peace.

 

[God Confirm]

Have you people never played a Soul Calibur game? This gear system has already been done. Guess what? The gear boosts will only affect casual players. If the idea of some 12 year old with his mom's credit card beating you online is really giving you night sweats, I really don't know what to tell you, other than you will absolutely be able to enjoy the game and never have to experience the boost system. Consider gear boosts in I2 the equivalent of that MKX mode no one ever played, where you can get hit by random effects and Cyrax bombs and shit. You will never have to experience it if you don't want to.

For anyone taking the game seriously, it's just a bonus way to make your character look cool. And guess what, I'm fucking glad they gave a pay-to-unlock option; I'm a grown-ass man who already shouldn't be playing so many video games, and I certainly don't have the time or patience to grind that shit out.

So cool your jets, take a deep breath, and know that everything will be ok.

The thing is tho, as you clarified in your second post, this is all based off the assumption that gear is purely cosmetic and has no affect on gameplay (at least no more than NRS's usual costume problems ). You said in your other post that if they did have balance affecting gameplay items locked behind a random loot drop/grind and P2W mechanic, that you think it would be monumentally stupid. Sounds like exactly what we saying, nobody gives a shit if they make costumes unlock able like that, in fact I think it would be awesome and the more like that the better. I just think not everyone has the same faith that it's purely cosmetic as you do, I thought I saw him say stats and special moves were literally attached to these items. If anything it sounds like you are even more anti that shit than I am, I just been sayibg that what they considering here IS definitely pay2win if gear affects gameplay, and it will turn I2 into the joke of the FGC if it is

 

[Vithar]

In which way is this "milking the poor people"?

Cutting the games forcing / provoking the people to buy DLC parts that ~99% of them are ready even before the game is released.

 

[RexxyC]

Cutting the games forcing / provoking the people to buy DLC parts that ~99% of them are ready even before the game is released.

how is this that situation in any way?

 

[God Confirm]

3. If you're just looking to smash online ranked with your buffed characters then maybe paying for certain gear options is a shit concept. We have no idea the extent of what the GEAR will do, so even arguing that it could be "pay to win" is impossible right now. I'd wager that if their drop system is similar to Diablo you won't be able to buy specific pieces of gear, maybe you can buy "booster packs" or something with odds to roll an item of a particular rarity. Or maybe there's Unique pieces of GEAR that you can get, but may have slightly randomised stats within some attribute pool (similar to Uniques in Path of Exile). Either way we know none of this information at this point.

Obviously nothing's for sure it's a year before release, but as we know that gear does affect gameplay, what Boon just described is the definition of a pay to win model. Whether that changes to what you are speculating is to be seen, but I'm not talking about how the game is going to play because that'd be crazy, to early for any of that. What I'm talking bout is what he just told us he is considering putting in, and that is a P2W mechanic for anyone who wants to skip the grind

Businesses need to make money, and NRS have done a fantastic job of putting money back into the community with their ESL tournaments (3 seasons in one year! And no I don't care that Fox has most of the money, point is we still got something awesome out of it.) How much money are businesses/their staff allowed to make before they meet our moral standards?

Well, on the flip side of that coin there is things like screwing over the entire PC base. It's great when they do good things and they get props forthatt, by the same coin when they do bad things they should get honest feedback there too. Not to get ahead of myself because I'm not willing to say they've done a bad thing yet, but nobody knows how it's gunna look yet, as you said probably not even them, but this thread exists for the sole reasn of looking forward right, so if they DO implement a p2w ONLY online multiplayer for a triple A game to try milk the cash out of this intensive customisation feature they've developed, it's probably fair to say that they've made enough money, and our moral standards can expect a little higher than that.


I don't disagree with your post as a whole however you just made a lot of points that's 2 I disagree with , the rest I fully agree with. Especially the part about organising matches and self regulation and the like, I hadn't even considered that but you right, if we got to that point self regulation for online play is definitely no problem. oh all but the part about wanting to take on high level bears with an underleveled guppy, we aren't all that masochistic

 

[big j gleez]

Ed Boon also stated that they're considering a separate ranked ladder using the tournament ruleset.

There shouldn't be a split within the tournament community because there's going to be a level playing field, gear-less "tournament mode" for us.

No one in the FGC cares for RPG elements in their fighting games.

I understand that there will be a gearless mode. That is what will split the community. Gearless and geared players. A split like that is not good for growth and longevity.

 

[God Confirm]

I can see both sides. It's not like Tagteam mode split the MK9 community right. It's all the same base game anyway, and I'd much rather have an online that has both regular mode, and has a P2W pimp my ride option, rather than just a regular. Both is good and as long as the P2W doesn't intrude, than I'm cool. Will be a little disappointed because it's no secret how crazy hyped I was for the custom mode, but I'll be ok with it.

 

[MKF30]

Just want to point out that the gear system in SC wasn't the same as it will in Injustice, that was mostly aesthetic and weapons, this game will be not just aesthetic but more of armor for offensive and defensive options, not so much weapons like swords, axes etc like SC did. So it is a bit different. That game also had a create a character option too if I'm not mistaken similar to MKA's KAK. Injustice 2 will not(unless they add that which I doubt)

1. Paying for GEAR is a non issue for anyone looking to play this game competitively. Even if GEAR is used in tournament standard, we'll make our own regulations to prevent BS.

2. If you're someone looking to dabble in a bit of competitive play and a bit of online fuckery with GEAR then it's still likely a non-issue. You're on TYM, you're networking with other players. Find someone to play games with (like you already do) and be reasonable with GEAR choices (if they actually release 'broken' GEAR).

3. If you're just looking to smash online ranked with your buffed characters then maybe paying for certain gear options is a shit concept. We have no idea the extent of what the GEAR will do, so even arguing that it could be "pay to win" is impossible right now. I'd wager that if their drop system is similar to Diablo you won't be able to buy specific pieces of gear, maybe you can buy "booster packs" or something with odds to roll an item of a particular rarity. Or maybe there's Unique pieces of GEAR that you can get, but may have slightly randomised stats within some attribute pool (similar to Uniques in Path of Exile). Either way we know none of this information at this point.

4. I understand it's bad design to force mindless grinding as the means to obtain good items (and I don't support it), but part of me is excited by the prospect of trying to beat people with severely underlevelled/underGEARed characters. I do think that this strategy of unlocks and grind/paywalls is a free to play model, and hope that if NRS do take this approach that it's done appropriately.

5. Businesses need to make money, and NRS have done a fantastic job of putting money back into the community with their ESL tournaments (3 seasons in one year! And no I don't care that Fox has most of the money, point is we still got something awesome out of it.) How much money are businesses/their staff allowed to make before they meet our moral standards?

I'm sure there's more that I forgot to address but I think the key things to take home are that we really don't know enough about the GEAR system to judge the way the implement it (fuck, even NRS probably doesn't know that much about the system), and that as players who take NRS games even slightly more serious than casual players, we'll still end up with a game we enjoy.

All of this is coming from the perspective of someone who is excited by the prospect of GEAR improving player retention, increasing the odds of casual players being interested in the competitive scene and consequently wanting to be involved in our offline communities. I think there's room for sooooo much potential growth here. If giving people options to pay for things increases their odds of sticking around, do it. I'm not going to give a shit since we, the community, will dictate the rules by which we play the game.

Peace.

Well said dude, totally agree a lot of that tends to get overlooked sadly but I too am looking forward to it and seeing how fleshed out the gear system will be. I'm sure in future kasts NRS will explain more no doubt.

 

[big j gleez]

It will be okay at first, until a large majority of players are geared players. Then the support and major corporate tournaments (ESL) shift to the masses in a game mode that makes thousands-millions more dollars for the company. Then we are all forced to shift over to being geared players.... scrambling for gear at the last minute as they surprise us with the fact that the tournament will be geared. This is all too familiar to me. I just hope NRS doesn't go this route

 

[d3v]

I understand that there will be a gearless mode. That is what will split the community. Gearless and geared players. A split like that is not good for growth and longevity.

Well nobody interested in competing is going to play with gear. It's not like people are going to be arguing over gear tournaments (and any legitimate TO is gonna shut that shit down anyway in much the same way gems were banned in SFxT).

 

[aldazo]

I think we will be given say 500 points and we can spread them a crossed offense, Defense, Specials etc. so everyone is on a neutral playing field. We just get to customize how we want to spend them. Games are made to make money NRS knows there customers.

Great idea. This would be the best way because it benefits both NRS and the FGC. NRS will see the Gear system used by competent players and thus influencing the casual crowd to buy it; and the FGC benefits from it because now they have more tools to use during competition, like variations in MKX. I hope NRS listen to you. (*_*)b

 

[big j gleez]

Well nobody interested in competing is going to play with gear. It's not like people are going to be arguing over gear tournaments (and any legitimate TO is gonna shut that shit down anyway in much the same way gems were banned in SFxT).

I'm not saying that us as tournament players will be clamoring to use gear. What I am saying is that since the money and majority are both linked to this mode, chances are the corporate tournaments will eventually shift there. It only makes sense from a corporate stand point to promote the mode that brings in extra revenue and is what the majority of people play.

You really think they want to have ESL and talk about how gear mode is for casuals and the best players play with no gear? How is that going to do for their DLC?

I am just looking at it from a corporate level and the fact that the very same thing has happened in the Madden community. I am just saying don't be surprised if this is what happens. But like you and basically everyone else here, I hope it does not.

 

[RoboCop]

You said in your other post that if they did have balance affecting gameplay items locked behind a random loot drop/grind and P2W mechanic, that you think it would be monumentally stupid.

When did I ever say that? I have used literally none of those words. The only topic I've commented on is how gear stats aren't going to affect competitive play. And that has nothing to do with payment; if gear affects competitive play, then any monetary issues are moot, as it's already a broken system. Anything else about p2w or pay walls or any other nonsense isn't worth discussing because it's literally all speculation at this point. Even NRS doesn't know how it's going to work yet. A lot of people have just decided that NRS is screwing everyone over and that it's the worst thing ever, but it's based 100% on speculation.

 

[d3v]

I'm not saying that us as tournament players will be clamoring to use gear. What I am saying is that since the money and majority are both linked to this mode, chances are the corporate tournaments will eventually shift there. It only makes sense from a corporate stand point to promote the mode that brings in extra revenue and is what the majority of people play.

You really think they want to have ESL and talk about how gear mode is for casuals and the best players play with no gear? How is that going to do for their DLC?

I am just looking at it from a corporate level and the fact that the very same thing has happened in the Madden community. I am just saying don't be surprised if this is what happens. But like you and basically everyone else here, I hope it does not.

Except Ed Boon already stated that there will be a separate mode that doesn't involve leveling and gear for tournaments.

We already know what happened the last time corporate interests tried to push something similar - SF x Tekken crashed and burned real hard in the competitive scene. If they ever try to force gear in tournaments, then Injustice 2 gets laughed out of the FGC.

At the same time, anyone in the ESL is smart enough to know that any sort of situation that creates a pay to win image isn't any good for legitimizing eSports. In any case, if you look at the major eSports games, majority avoid this sort of level based progression system.

 

[Euphoric]

Why is there a 6 page thread on this, Lol.

And why is competitive keep being mentioned.

Ed Boon said there's going to be an even playing field for comp, so there it doesn't matter.

Pay to play is optional and a quicker way to get things. You can always get it other ways.

I feel like a majority of the people who bitch about DLC and microstransactions are people who don't work or have spending money.

If that's the case, don't play the game and figure out your financials. Because it's nothing more than a cup of coffee usually. And most people spend money on random BS all the time but when it comes to developers, they are greedy GTFO.

Technology now days requires more people and a large amount of money, in the 1000 of employees. So why the fuck do people keep comparing it to old GTA unlocks? Rockstar has tons of employees for one game. Idk if NRS games are considered AAA but they sell a lot and I can assume it has a large workforce.

So you want them not make DLC? After a game launches, and just stop supporting it? Sure. I'll work for free bro.

DLC is also used to keep the game in your disc tray and increase its life span, because simple minded people move on quick. Which is this generation of whiny gamers.