General/Other - Alien Should Alien get the Tanya treatment?

[GAV]

The worst that you'll find is "Alien shouldn't be banned", "Alien's unsafe unless he does regular overhead flip", "Alien's risk/reward is poor in comparison to characters with safe 50/50s".

And you'll probably use some vague argument against something that I've said, even if it's clearly not "downplaying".

A couple more notes.

It didn't take a week for me to respond to your post. It's also incredibly obvious that you know you're wrong, since you immediately use your real life responsibilities as a defense mechanism. I never said that you have to respond in a certain time. It took me 4-5 days to respond to one of yours. Chill.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/why-alien-should-be-banned.60130/page-5

There is the thread where I posted a ton about why Alien shouldn't be banned. Despite an emphasis on his negatives(since I was trying to stop him from being banned) I never downplayed. I also post about Alien's positives in the Tarkatan discussion regularly, I dispute characters armoring through rekkas, making it a bad match up for Alien. I was wrong about Alien one time in Pig's thread where I quickly corrected myself. I'm not a potato like you that pretends that Blood God's totems do not help him. When i'm wrong, I admit it.

Come at me bro.

LOL. The "come at me bro" is awesome.

Actually, I know I'm right. Its like arguing that the sun is hot or the sky is blue. It doesn't need to be argued at all. It just needs the onlookers to have been blessed with reason.

 

[GAV]

tweedy is correct in his statements about alien. nothing cheap about alien that is Game Breaking or Game changing that deserves aNerf.


would you agree that the only reason we have this nerf alien debacle is that several top players and a few low level players, had a bad match or two against some of there boasting friends, and it made them angry, so some not naming anyone, made a few streams and a video to ephisise Aliens strengths in the light to make her look broke so they can win next time they play said player? sound about right @Tweedy ?

Of course BG's Totems help him. What I said were they were not a tool for winning exchanges - meaning they don't help him land a hit. Of course they help him though. SG has a throw and WG has lots of extra options to land a hit. In this respect, meaning at landing a hit or winning exchanges - BG isn't as good, but obviously the totems help him. They help his damage (both offensively and defensively) and they help him build meter. Don't try and make it about other characters though. This is about Alien.

As far as what a few players think about the matchups, you're trying to take one part of it and make it the argument. Its not the argument.

The argument is Alien is OP.

Johnny Cochran would've had the foresight to pass this one by.

 

[Tweedy]

tweedy is correct in his statements about alien. nothing cheap about alien that is Game Breaking or Game changing that deserves aNerf.


would you agree that the only reason we have this nerf alien debacle is that several top players and a few low level players, had a bad match or two against some of there boasting friends, and it made them angry, so some not naming anyone, made a few streams and a video to ephisise Aliens strengths in the light to make her look broke so they can win next time they play said player? sound about right @Tweedy ?

Alien could definitely use a few nerfs. His jump 2, jump 4 and EX flip in the air, make him way too difficult to anti air or air to air.

The thing is, is people look at Alien and even Mileena because they're winning, however, there are other things in the game that are pretty bullshit too. Ermac and Mileena have jump punches that literally don't need to auto correct, which is probably just as dumb as Alien's jump 2. Then you have Demolition Sonya with her 50/50s that have neutral or advantageous mind games on block in most match ups, Takeda who a lot of people have problems with, Cutthroat with +12 and +8 50/50s for a bar, Imposter getting 20% or more for free on stages with throw interactables, after any hit. There are other things to list obviously.

At a point people just have to become content with the way the game is. Do they really believe that characters like Imposter, Jax, Kung Jin, won't be the next Mileena, Alien, Takeda, if there's another round of nerfs? Fix what's really dumb and leave the rest. Imo the "Tanya treatment" is too much for any character.

Alien's air game definitely falls under the "really dumb" category. His jump 2 should be 10 frames, like Kung Lao's. Armor on EX flip in the air should be removed from the game lol.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

You're trying to take one part of it and make it the argument.

Johnny Cochran would've had the foresight to pass this one by.

wow so you don't have any logical arguments at all do you? wtf i ask explaine whats realy broken and why and you come back with some Drug using zebra

 

[WiseM0nkey]

let me put it in other terms you could understand. lets remove oh From B2 on reptile. since he has other oh and lows lets just do it. by your standards it wouldn't hurt him at all. and basically lets just do it because i have a hard time with the matchup, i don't have any facts as to why i think its strong i just wan't it removed, or ill just state its OP. and while we are at it, lets make B3 a mid, since there is also other lows in reptiles arsenal.

Reptile is a good example, because he has a safe oh special. some consider this op. i don't but others do, so what do you think? funny enough when you enhance it it also launches.


putting it simply, Alien F134 is not Overpowered, for crying out loud its a 10 frame mid and the last hit is a low. run and hide, its a 10 frame starting mid that ends in a low, and you can mix them up with it. seems to me some of you have a problem with the game mechanics and not the character. F134 being able to mixup into a safe oh is not a new thing in mkx or broke by any standard. ive already listed how many characters have 10 frame mids. and how many have safe mixups. so this Tail flip being safe is broke, is also ludicrous.


and lets just say removing a Viable mid to low starter would not hurt a character. and making a very slow special move unsafe on block not hurt a character either. this BS your way to victory comment you made. made me laugh, your logic is it won't hurt the character to much so lets do it. is laughable. thats not a reason or foundation to nerf a character. what because you don't like the matchup.

there is probably a reason that guy didn't reply to you, you kind of came off as a giant asshole, there are constant rude remarks in your posts ending in laugh's and you asked why he or she believes it could hurt his character i assume, then followed with your unwavering viewpoint. basically like you didn't care what he or she said, that you had your mind made up, then you came off with statements that are not facts, but opinions. what did you say, "doesn't need it cuz he allready has oh's and low's" and the " its a totally unnecessary 50/50"

well as i said before, just because a character has other methods does not make another one unnecessary! but more so the reason why F134 is so important is its a Mid and it goes into mixup, that is probably why you see so many Aliens use this one over the others, and the range that it has compared to Her B113 and 214. to eleminate the opponents desire to low profile with pokes, normal specials and low profiling starter's this is probably why its so importanat to alien players. i bet if you asked some top players, they will tell you one of the strongest tools in this game is MIDS. and messing with aliens fastest Mid or the main OH mixup tool. might hurt the character.

i bet that even if there was Alien players that thought that it would not hurt Her, they would find after the adjustment that it actually would change Aliens neutral in a bad way.


how about this. tell me why Aliens Tail Flip and F134 should be nerfed?

things i should Note is:

Alien is definitely not the only one who has safe mixups, and not the only one with safe specials or safe OH's. that being said Why is this an Alien thing and not a whole cast thing, if you truly believe all characters should not have safe mixups, and how would this even be achievable in the very few possible balance patches to come?

if anything you should compare aliens f134 with reptiles f412, not b2...

but anyway it's cool, you can laugh.. Alien can already do the same shit with half of his strings, he doesnt need his main pressure string to have a Low in it cause he can already jail into his Low or OH special, or even his rekkas to be safe... you seem to not understand that making all the string 3 hits mid doesnt fucking hurt his main string cause it basically remains a mid and it still goes into a mixup (OH or Low special).. i didnt ask for it to be an High lol, you totally missed the point, and you're just trying to defend your characters, as always..

i didnt say anything about tailflip either, cause it's fine, just for f134...

and yeah, if a mid string causes a braindead 50/50, and it's totally unnecessary cause he already has 20 other ways to mix them up, it should go away... less bullshit, more play... you're blind if you think it would hurt the character.

 

[GAV]

wow so you don't have any logical arguments at all do you? wtf i ask explaine whats realy broken and why and you come back with some Drug using zebra

Ridiculousness always matches up well with that same level of ridiculousness.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Alien could definitely use a few nerfs. His jump 2, jump 4 and EX flip in the air, make him way too difficult to anti air or air to air.

The thing is, is people look at Alien and even Mileena because they're winning, however, there are other things in the game that are pretty bullshit too. Ermac and Mileena have jump punches that literally don't need to auto correct, which is probably just as dumb as Alien's jump 2. Then you have Demolition Sonya with her 50/50s that have neutral or advantageous mind games on block in most match ups, Takeda who a lot of people have problems with, Cutthroat with +12 and +8 50/50s for a bar, Imposter getting 20% or more for free on stages with throw interactables, after any hit. There are other things to list obviously.

At a point people just have to become content with the way the game is. Do they really believe that characters like Imposter, Jax, Kung Jin, won't be the next Mileena, Alien, Takeda, if there's another round of nerfs? Fix what's really dumb and leave the rest. Imo the "Tanya treatment" is too much for any character.

Alien's air game definitely falls under the "really dumb" category. His jump 2 should be 10 frames, like Kung Lao's. Armor on EX flip in the air should be removed from the game lol.

i say adjust his Jump 2 that sounds fair. but there is a point where we have to say something. i have stuck with my characters, but im tired of seeing people want characters nerfed while others get to keep their dumb shit. its absurd. and just like what you said, these people actually think if they focus on one or 2 characters the game will be balanced. its frustrating.

all in all, F134 and Tail flip stay..


nerf the jump 2 cuz that is over the top.

but wehat is funny is none of the people who asked for Alien to be nerfed even stated what was actually over the top. jump in 2 is hardly over the top but that is something that has alot of sway in the direction of the match

 

[MadeOfMetal]

yo

if anything you should compare aliens f134 with reptiles f412, not b2...

but anyway it's cool, you can laugh.. Alien can already do the same shit with half of his strings, he doesnt need his main pressure string to have a Low in it cause he can already jail into his Low or OH special, or even his rekkas to be safe... you seem to not understand that making all the string 3 hits mid doesnt fucking hurt his main string cause it basically remains a mid and it still goes into a mixup (OH or Low special).. i didnt ask for it to be an High lol, you totally missed the point, and you're just trying to defend your characters, as always..

i didnt say anything about tailflip either, cause it's fine, just for f134...

and yeah, if a mid string causes a braindead 50/50, and it's totally unnecessary cause he already has 20 other ways to mix them up, it should go away... less bullshit, more play... you're blind if you think it would hurt the character.

ur talking about tarkatan, you do realize aline has two other variations and i don't even use tarkatan. the logical nerf to tarkatan jailing rekkas is not nerf a universal unrelated normal, its nerf Rekkas. then the other variations don't get effected because of one variation.

 

[GAV]

i say adjust his Jump 2 that sounds fair. but there is a point where we have to say something. i have stuck with my characters, but im tired of seeing people want characters nerfed while others get to keep their dumb shit. its absurd. and just like what you said, these people actually think if they focus on one or 2 characters the game will be balanced. its frustrating.

all in all, F134 and Tail flip stay..


nerf the jump 2 cuz that is over the top.

but wehat is funny is none of the people who asked for aline to be nerfed even stated what was actually over the top. jump in 2 is hardly over the top but that is something that has alot of sway in the direction of the match

Duh...
#1 Alien
#2 Piercing
#3 (used to think A-List, but not so sure about that anymore)
#4 (D'Vorah or Takeda)
#5 ???

My point is that I don't have any agenda beyond not having OP characters or variations.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Duh...
#1 Alien
#2 Piercing
#3 (used to think A-List, but not so sure about that anymore)
#4 (D'Vorah or Takeda)
#5 ???

My point is that I don't have any agenda beyond not having OP characters or variations.

lol
S Alien, Johnny, Mileena, D'Vorah, Takeda
A+ Kotal Khan, Kano, Sonya, Jax, Ermac, Cassie, Kung Jin.

Note: some of the characters in A+, Kano, Sonya can go up one tier depending on who did the MU numbers and based on their general tools. and some character can either go one up or one down.

any of those characters have the tools and means to deal with the s tier characters

 

[Tweedy]

Duh...
#1 Alien
#2 Piercing
#3 (used to think A-List, but not so sure about that anymore)
#4 (D'Vorah or Takeda)
#5 ???

My point is that I don't have any agenda beyond not having OP characters or variations.

First of all, i'm done arguing with you about me downplaying Alien until you provide substance to that claim.

Secondly, if your top 5 sees a round of nerfs, will Sonya and Cutthroat be fair? Will they not just be the next OP characters? I'm positive that many will say no just to not sound dumb, but chances are that the characters who are on top now, getting knocked down, will do nothing for people's attitude towards the game.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Put a gap before the last hit of F13-4 and make the tail flip unsafe.
Make DB4 acid spits completely unsafe on block so Acidic players can't cheap out escape the flip and gap nerf.

This way if you try and back dash the gap in F134 and the opponent does F13 overhead or low, you will take the hit on the 50/50, but you can always armour the gap or just back dash on the full string, and if you block either of the 50/50's (considering you can still go Mid Mid Low or Mid Mid Overhead, or Mid Mid Low Overhead and Mid Mid Low Low) you actually get a reward for guessing right and blocking all those options, as a fighting game should work.

Keep armour on Rekka, as it will be useless without it, and also, its just as unsafe/safe as all rekkas.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think Kano Cutthtoat is better then Tarkatan. The reason people hate Alien imo is the execution to effectiveness ratio is off. SOMR of the other characters that are top tier require decent execution. Like A-List, Spectral, etc.. I think Sonya and Alien are more potato than the other top tier characters but not necessarily better. I started learning Tarkatan today, and he is a lot of fun and very very good, but I had a lot of misconceptions about Alien. I suggest anyone curious about Alien to learn Tarkatan. Not super hard, really fun, and a good character to have in your back pocket. Tweedy doesn't downplay Alien, it's just that people literally don't know what they're talking about with him, so anything negative seems like downplaying. The people trying to ban him are crazy lol.

 

[WarlordRenegade]

If this was going to happen it should have been done before ESL S3 finals. It's never going to happen now. Might as well drop it and face the fact this is the version MKXL is going to be for the duration of its life. (Which will be until Injustice 2 launch day) which really sucks cause I agree with tom when he said this game is 1 patch away from being the best fighter out there.

 

[GAV]

I think Kano Cutthtoat is better then Tarkatan. The reason people hate Alien imo is the execution to effectiveness ratio is off. SOMR of the other characters that are top tier require decent execution. Like A-List, Spectral, etc.. I think Sonya and Alien are more potato than the other top tier characters but not necessarily better. I started learning Tarkatan today, and he is a lot of fun and very very good, but I had a lot of misconceptions about Alien. I suggest anyone curious about Alien to learn Tarkatan. Not super hard, really fun, and a good character to have in your back pocket. Tweedy doesn't downplay Alien, it's just that people literally don't know what they're talking about with him, so anything negative seems like downplaying. The people trying to ban him are crazy lol.

I don't want him banned, but I don't want him left alone either.

Tarkatan isn't crazy broken anymore, but Acidic definitely is.

I'm smart enough to know when something is just dumb and Alien, right now, is just dumb - especially Acidic.

 

[GAV]

Alien could definitely use a few nerfs.

 

[M.D.]

You'd have to be at least drunk AND clueless at this game if you put A-list in the same boat as Alien, Piercing and Takeda.

 

[GAV]

First of all, i'm done arguing with you about me downplaying Alien until you provide substance to that claim.

Secondly, if your top 5 sees a round of nerfs, will Sonya and Cutthroat be fair? Will they not just be the next OP characters? I'm positive that many will say no just to not sound dumb, but chances are that the characters who are on top now, getting knocked down, will do nothing for people's attitude towards the game.

That's why I think you nerf the top 5 slightly. Then, give the next 5 a good, hard look - and act accordingly.

One round of nerfs would improve the game. Two would be better. Three, IMO, would be truly ideal.

 

[GAV]

You'd have to be at least drunk AND clueless at this game if you put A-list in the same boat as Alien, Piercing and Takeda.

I don't put anyone in Alien's tier. Mileena is below him, but in my mind - her Piercing variation also stands alone.

I used to put A-List 3rd, but like I said - I'm not even really sure of that anymore.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I don't want him banned, but I don't want him left alone either.

Tarkatan isn't crazy broken anymore, but Acidic definitely is.

I'm smart enough to know when something is just dumb and Alien, right now, is just dumb - especially Acidic.

He isn't crazy broken, holy shit. He is easily top tier and one if not the best character in the game. Anyone can see that. Alien is dumb. He is very very dumb and could use adjusting, but over half the cast has very very dumb stuff. But removing the armor on an 18 frame launcher is a bad idea, and isn't what should be changed. Any of Alien's 50/50s that are safe don't launch and are very low damage. Cutthroat is worse than Alien imho. Cutthroat loses to Sub-Zero, and possibly nobody else. Just food for thought, Alien isn't the only problem. Don't mistake this for Alien downplaying, the character is fucked. People asking for changes on characters they don't know all that well can lead to shit like Cyber Sub-Zero, Kobu Tanya, Hunter Predator, and Aftershock Tremor. Those variations are butchered and didn't really deserve to get hit that hard.

Not that it matters because there won't be another patch.

 

[GAV]

He isn't crazy broken, holy shit. He is easily top tier and one if not the best character in the game. Anyone can see that. Alien is dumb. He is very very dumb and could use adjusting, but over half the cast has very very dumb stuff. But removing the armor on an 18 frame launcher is a bad idea, and isn't what should be changed. Any of Alien's 50/50s that are safe don't launch and are very low damage. Cutthroat is worse than Alien imho. Cutthroat loses to Sub-Zero, and possibly nobody else. Just food for thought, Alien isn't the only problem. Don't mistake this for Alien downplaying, the character is fucked. People asking for changes on characters they don't know all that well can lead to shit like Cyber Sub-Zero, Kobu Tanya, Hunter Predator, and Aftershock Tremor. Those variations are butchered and didn't really deserve to get hit that hard.

Not that it matters because there won't be another patch.

I agree there won't be another patch, but Acidic Alien is the dumbest of all by a lot - and the other Alien variations are dumber than anything else that currently exists.

 

[Tweedy]

Lol you can't prove that I've ever said otherwise. I've only argued against him being banned and in a tier of his own.

That's why I posted the thread where you can easily find my opinions on Alien. I've never downplayed him, no matter how many times you say that I have/do. When I ask you to provide evidence, you get super defensive, even to the point that you bring up your irl responsibilities.

 

[Tweedy]

And lets be honest, whether it's Acidic or Tarkatan that's broken on TYM, is decided only by which places higher at the latest tournament.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I agree there won't be another patch, but Acidic Alien is the dumbest of all by a lot - and the other Alien variations are dumber than anything else that currently exists.

He isn't in this magical tier of his own. Kano, Mileena, Takeda, Cage, Sonya, and Ermac are as good as Alien. Why in your opinion does Kano with plus/neutral meterless 50/50s, that are plus when you spend meter for a shitload of damage, a -5 half screen mid, fast projectile, super sonic speed backdash, very good kid string, great meterbuilding capability, and safe armor. What in your opinion makes Acidic Alien so much dumber than this that it puts him in is his own tier entirely?

 

[GAV]

Lol you can't prove that I've ever said otherwise. I've only argued against him being banned and in a tier of his own.

That's why I posted the thread where you can easily find my opinions on Alien. I've never downplayed him, no matter how many times you say that I have/do. When I ask you to provide evidence, you get super defensive, even to the point that you bring up your irl responsibilities.

I'm not making anything up. I just said why it couldn't be immediate. I remember times, so unless my memory is mistaken...