General/Other - Kenshi Kenshi General Discussion Thread

[Gofer_MK_]

I think those changes, combined with db4 being + on hit (now it's -1. yes, -1 on hit...), teleflurry recovery on whiff reduced and the improved backdash you mention would put him in a decent situation.

However, some top players have a much more radical point of view: keeping his "zoning" the same, and making f3 an overhead block, so he becomes basically a safe 50/50 monster up close, with +30% meterless combos starting from f32 or b32, both safe and hitconfirmable.

Both options would allow him to play better, although I prefer the first set of buffs that would actually go in favor of his zoning, which is what people expect from Kenshi.

Dude, OHcloseSlash -1 is golden. You hit a guy with it and he pokes you or something. xD

 

[ismael4790]

Dude, OHcloseSlash -1 is golden. You hit a guy with it and he pokes you or something. xD

Yeah, I love to lose frames just because I made the right choice and my opponent ate the overhead...

Without armor, no matter if your overhead slash was blocked or not...you have to block. That's what I call threatening..

 

[thlityoursloat]

If they give Balanced a 50/50 starter then Kenjutsu will be obsolete.

 

[coconutshrimp]

If they give Balanced a 50/50 starter then Kenjutsu will be obsolete.

Pretty much, especially with the better safer armor of EX BF2 and the F211(4) string, kenjutsu will be pointless.

 

[ismael4790]

If they give Balanced a 50/50 starter then Kenjutsu will be obsolete.

Not obsolete, he would still have some points Balanced lacks (considering the only Balanced buff was f3 being an overhead), as much better push in Kenjutsu, more damaging bf3, and more damage potential in general. But Balanced would be the most benefited by the change, yes, probably becoming the best variation.

Possessed would be pretty good too if f3 turned into overhead, having a low-low (launcher), overhead-low (launcher), overhead-overhead and low-overhead when up close.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Kenjutsu's regular push is better but not by that much, it just has more pushback and starts up a few frames faster. Balanced still zones better as Kenjutsu literally has no full screen presence, unless you count his toss that's just as -ve on whiff as TF. Damage is pretty much consistent across all Kenshi variations.
Possessed would be broke with an OH starter and it'd be CT Kano all over again... me likey though.

 

[ismael4790]

Kenjutsu's regular push is better but not by that much, it just has more pushback and starts up a few frames faster. Balanced still zones better as Kenjutsu literally has no full screen presence, unless you count his toss that's just as -ve on whiff as TF. Damage is pretty much consistent across all Kenshi variations.
Possessed would be broke with an OH starter and it'd be CT Kano all over again... me likey though.

I likey too, let Kenshi rock for once

One weakness Possessed has would prevent him from being CT Kano tier: every string (apart from 42 and 421) canceled into low demon has a gap. Kano stays completely safe while doing his 50/50s: his 50/50 starter strings are safe and he can cancel them at any point with db1, without gaps.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Tanya had gaps pre-XL and people still hated her. Most people don't really armor every single gap.

 

[ismael4790]

Tanya had gaps pre-XL and people still hated her. Most people don't really armor every single gap.

Gaps in possessed are easier to see, the demon even has a special sound different to the overhead option. I mean, people will not armor every time, but more times as if it there was not a gap xDD

 

[thlityoursloat]

Gaps in possessed are easier to see, the demon even has a special sound different to the overhead option. I mean, people will not armor every time, but more times as if it there was not a gap xDD

True, the low totem is 24f so the gap will be reactable.
Possessed would be so much better if it weren't for the broke tiers taking a massive dump on him, the Mileena and Alien matchups are truly fucking miserable.

 

[ismael4790]

You guys understand why Kenshi can parry, for example, things like Raiden's superman, Jax's dash punch or Spectral Ermac's soul charge, but can't parry Liu Kang's flying kick? It has nothing to do with the move having two hits in Dragon's Fire, you can't even parry the second hit if the first one whiffs. Also you can't parry the flying kick in his other two variations.

@colt, I know that the patch notes say "Blade Reflect & Blade Absorb can now parry most non low attacks", so they can be exceptions, but is there a reason why this move in particular can't be parried?

The fact that Kenshi can't parry this, is massive for the Dragon's fire matchup: he has to fear flying kick every time, because Liu can meterburn it and be in his face at 0 on block, and we all know what happens then. This makes this matchup even worse than it is by itself...

 

[thlityoursloat]

Nobody can parry it.

 

[ismael4790]

Nobody can parry it.

That's even worse xD
I mean...why? It's a really fast move, it's not like one could easily parry it on reaction, it would be almost a read that would deserve to be rewarded.

 

[thlityoursloat]

That's even worse xD
I mean...why? It's a really fast move, it's not like one could easily parry it on reaction, it would be almost a read that would deserve to be rewarded.

Technically, it's because he's airborne, but that's bs because Jax's feet are off the ground when he does dash punch too but that's parryable.
I don't know, really, I suppose having a full screen super fast armored move that's -8 with tons of pushback and blockstun, that can also be meterburned to be 0 on block and do more chip/build meter isn't enough.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

In the Alien matchup (as kenjustsu) - I realised two useful things:
1. If you end your combo in df1 (more hit advantage than the higher damage enders), walk forward slightly, and b1 this will armour break the ex OH flip. Even if they don't wake up, you are only -1. Also hit confirmable (but hard - need to be on point, and buffer the next special)
2. If you counterpoke with b1 after blocking regular OH flip, and he tries to ex OH flip at negative frames, b1 will armour break. B1 will trade or beat any of his normals.

@Pig Of The Hut - you may already be aware, but tagging you in case you are not.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

In the Alien matchup (as kenjustsu) - I realised two useful things:
1. If you end your combo in df1 (more hit advantage than the higher damage enders), walk forward slightly, and b1 this will armour break the ex OH flip. Even if they don't wake up, you are only -1. Also hit confirmable (but hard - need to be on point, and buffer the next special)
2. If you counterpoke with b1 after blocking regular OH flip, and he tries to ex OH flip at negative frames, b1 will armour break. B1 will trade or beat any of his normals.

@Pig Of The Hut - you may already be aware, but tagging you in case you are not.

Yep I know that but thank u

Does it also stop crawl

 

[boba_buster]

So what is some advice for a new balanced player?

 

[coconutshrimp]

So what is some advice for a new balanced player?

When you're at fullscreen you gotta whiff specials like push or rising karma to bait movement and punish their run in attempt when they see you whiff it with tele flurry. Close overhead slash works just as good to get the same result.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

So what is some advice for a new balanced player?

play kenjutsu

 

[ismael4790]

So what is some advice for a new balanced player?

Sell the game.

Nah, seriously, it's a very bad variation. He does not work for high level competition at all.

Use standing 1 whiffs to make the opponent move and make mistakes, to set up your specials. Don't throw mindlessly teleflurrys because they are SUPER negative on whiff. Don't get predictable with your sequences of specials, try to vary them, and also create some moments of pause when you don't do any special to make the opponent nervous.
Use b1 a lot, I'm personally still getting used to this change, b1 is very good now, his best buff, no contest here.

And last advice: only use it if for some reason you truly like it. Any of the other two variations are better at almost any situation.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Sell the game.

Nah, seriously, it's a very bad variation.

Use standing 1 whiffs to make the opponent move and make mistakes, to set up your specials. Don't throw mindlessly teleflurrys because they are SUPER negative on whiff. Don't get predictable with your sequences of specials, try to vary them, and also create some moments of pause when you don't do any special to make the opponent nervous.
Use b1 a lot, I'm personally still getting used to this change, b1 is very good now, his best buff, no contest here.

I normally use RK or Push or Close slash to bait, unless it's a tele character. I don't remember the recover frames on close slash, but push and rk are -25 and -23 on whiff respectively. Very few characters can react to an punish these.

 

[ismael4790]

I normally use RK or Push or Close slash to bait, unless it's a tele character. I don't remember the recover frames on close slash, but push and rk are -25 and -23 on whiff respectively. Very few characters can react to an punish these.

Yeah, after landing a tf, which is a hkd, you get a free push or rk whiff, they must be done to build meter. After that, against non-teleport characters you can do another special or do nothing, that's the first safe mindgame (not safe vs teleport characters, more careful needed there).

Also the "run into throw" aka "the Pig of the Hut" is a must

 

[coconutshrimp]

Yeah, after landing a tf, which is a hkd, you get a free push or rk whiff, they must be done to build meter. After that, against non-teleport characters you can do another special or do nothing, that's the first safe mindgame (not safe vs teleport characters, more careful needed there).

Also the "run into throw" aka "the Pig of the Hut" is a must

I've done "the pig of the hut" so much with Kenshi I've started doing it with Johnny lol.

 

[boba_buster]

@coconutshrimp didnt know u played kenshi , we should play sum mirrors tonight if your on

 

[coconutshrimp]

@coconutshrimp didnt know u played kenshi , we should play sum mirrors tonight if your on

Yeah sure man, Kenshi was, and am still thinking about it, my main. Balanced is not recommended but can hold his own in maybe 2-3 MUs lol. He does good vs himself so that must count for something right