Zangief General Discussion Thread

[JJvercetti]

This makes me so sad.
https://www.livecap.tv/t/daigothebeastv/uzlDR5PXu6Q

 

[ChoseDeath]

Does anybody have any actual meaty set ups for Gief that don't require a crush counter sweep? After testing against Necali's wake up jab, it appears that Gief's pressure after SPD's is non-existent. I could get a crush counter HP set up after a heavy Siberian express, but when the hell am I going to land that in a match?

Unless you hit Heavy or Ex. SPD, the pressure is over. You have nothing

I feel like I almost never got jabbed out of SPD in 4, but fuckers are just poking me out of grabs left and right in 5...

That 5 frame start up bro... cr Jab says fuck you to SPD everytime! I hate it.

 

[Pterodactyl]

The only thing that pisses me off more than L.SPD being pokeable by everyone super easily is the fact that the armor on EX Siberian Express isn't instant, meaning people can fucking poke me out of that too.

It's so god damn slow already that people can jump out of the way if they aren't right in your face, and if they are they can just mash jab.

 

[JJvercetti]

The only thing that pisses me off more than L.SPD being pokeable by everyone super easily is the fact that the armor on EX Siberian Express isn't instant, meaning people can fucking poke me out of that too.

It's so god damn slow already that people can jump out of the way if they aren't right in your face, and if they are they can just mash jab.

They can just mash jab and blow through the armor too, I only use the L Siberian Express once in a while but I think its a useless move.

 

[JJvercetti]

Some matches from yesterday.

I only used the Siberian Express once and once only.

I actually tried the reset and it worked haha

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Some matches from yesterday.

I only used the Siberian Express once and once only.

I actually tried the reset and it worked haha

Damn I wish I could play zangief like you can. Great skills bro.

 

[JJvercetti]

Damn I wish I could play zangief like you can. Great skills bro.

Thanks, these are the ones I thought were great for me. There are some matches where I get wrecked so bad too lol, just check out my cfn profile for those.

 

[countrypistol]

This makes me so sad.
https://www.livecap.tv/t/daigothebeastv/uzlDR5PXu6Q

If he had neutral jumped instead of blocking, Diago wouldn't have been able to throw as many fireballs. If he would have V Skilled, he could have built some V Meter and gone for a V Trigget punish instead.

Some matches from yesterday.

I only used the Siberian Express once and once only.

I actually tried the reset and it worked haha

There was some good stuff in those matches (impressed to see the reset in full), so well done. What I think you need to work on is the following.

1) Neutral jumping fireballs

You're absorbing, and using lariat, which is great, but instead of forward jumping, try neutral jumping. When you do that, the fire ball remains on the screen for a while longer and you can walk forward, closing the gap with less risk of being anti aired. It also buys more time for your white life to recover.

2) V Reversals

At several points you were being pressured and had three bars of V meter, but didn't V Reversal. V Trigger is great, but V Reversal has its moments. Most people get so used to doing their BnB pressure strings that it completely throws them when you do a V Reversal, giving you a chance for a free grab/tick throw mix up.

3) Walking yourself into a corner.

It's easily done when you're on the defence to walk yourself into a corner, but try and be conscious of when you do it. It tends to happen to me when I don't anti air enough, and instead walk backwards to avoid the jump ins.

If you do find yourself cornered, remember that back throw will corner the opponent. In that Ken match you fought your way back to mid screen, when you had a prefect opportunity to side switch and play to Gief's strengths. People love to jump out in the corner, and his Crush Counters are ideal for punishing this.

Cudos for getting up to 3k with Gief. I haven't touched ranked in ages because I got tired of the rage quitters and being forced to hold only my losses. Either you're very dedicated, or a masochist. I can't tell which.

 

[JJvercetti]

I also need to work on my throw techs but yeah I was just thinking of all the times that has happened especially points 1 and 3. I did actually got to 3500 points before those videos but as soon as you get to ultra silver, you lose 105 points to a silver player which is stupid.

 

[countrypistol]

What bugs me most about ranked is the lag. I have my settings at 5 and PS only, and I still get laggy as fuck players more often than not, whereas I go into casual with the same settings and it plays like a dream.

If only the battle lounge menus would refresh properly (instead of showing me a list of the same dozen rooms on each refresh that all no longer exist), then I wouldn't do ranked or casual at all. I bought the game to play, not sit through a tonne of loading screens.

 

[countrypistol]

Here's a fun thing I found.

Gief's V Skill, if timed right, can give you unlimited armour outside of v trigger. I tested it by having Nash jump in and mash jab, and tried to see how many I could parry (my best was 8).

I wouldn't do this against jab mashers in a match, and especially not online. If you V Skill, you not only negate push back, but the grey damage is unscaled for each hit, so even if you parry ten hits, if you cock up on the 11th, you'll take the damage for all of them. What's more, if you try to go for the v skill punch, you'll most likely get poked out (same if you try to go for an spd).

Either way, setting up the dummy to mash jab and trying to parry as many as you can is a fun little side game, and might give you ideas for dealing with some pressure heavy characters (or players who like to do strings into "safe" specials like hadoken on block or hit regardless).

 

[ChoseDeath]

For safe plus pokes people like to string together, like Nash's cr Strong, I've been having lots of success using Ex Siberian Express to blow it up. Anyone else?

 

[countrypistol]

For safe plus pokes people like to string together, like Nash's cr Strong, I've been having lots of success using Ex Siberian Express to blow it up. Anyone else?

Didn't think to use that as it doesn't have armour on the first frame. I'll try it.

 

[ChoseDeath]

Ok, so I am up to Super Silver Rank and I am now stuck, lol. The reads are just too real man, you have to BE in the other player's head. And now we have Guile to deal with. But at least he plays differently. Anyone making any progress?

 

[countrypistol]

Ok, so I am up to Super Silver Rank and I am now stuck, lol. The reads are just too real man, you have to BE in the other player's head. And now we have Guile to deal with. But at least he plays differently. Anyone making any progress?

I haven't had much time to play, maybe three-four hours a week, so it's slow going for me. One of the things I'm trying to work on is meter management. If I v skill, I'm trying to then pay close attention to my white life, or if I'm close to v trigger, I might look for an opportunity to absorb a hit, then do the flex into v trigger cancel.

That, as well as remembering to jab after a v reversal instead of always going for a spd, buffering BD into forward jumps and reacting with punch or kick depending on if they're in the air, using f-MK and c-MK to move forward, anti airing with standing jab (instead of always using lariat and c.hp) and remembering that you CAN'T v trigger cancel jabs when you're NOT in v trigger (it's easy enough to remember, but mid match I see the 3 red bars and think 'ohh, big punish') are all things I'm working on.

 

[ChoseDeath]

I haven't had much time to play, maybe three-four hours a week, so it's slow going for me. One of the things I'm trying to work on is meter management. If I v skill, I'm trying to then pay close attention to my white life, or if I'm close to v trigger, I might look for an opportunity to absorb a hit, then do the flex into v trigger cancel.

That, as well as remembering to jab after a v reversal instead of always going for a spd, buffering BD into forward jumps and reacting with punch or kick depending on if they're in the air, using f-MK and c-MK to move forward, anti airing with standing jab (instead of always using lariat and c.hp) and remembering that you CAN'T v trigger cancel jabs when you're NOT in v trigger (it's easy enough to remember, but mid match I see the 3 red bars and think 'ohh, big punish') are all things I'm working on.

Thanks man! I need to start working on the instant air BD's and the buffers myself. I have been getting a fucking TON of mileage out of V-Trigger vacuum, cr LK cr Jab cr Jab into Trigger on hit. I'll honestly just use the V-Trigger raw so I can combo into it off jab, lol. I'm with you, I always get overly excited and want to do that combo too, lol. But thanks for chiming in, always nice to know I'm in good company, lol.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

That's it, after watching some matches with zangief in northwest majors I definetely know he needs a lot of buffs. What would you guys change or give to zangief?

 

[countrypistol]

That's it, after watching some matches with zangief in northwest majors I definetely know he needs a lot of buffs. What would you guys change or give to zangief?

-A lariat with true upper body invincibility on start up to reliably anti air.

- Better horizontal hit box on lariat start up so that it will combo more reliably.

-Slightly less start up on Siberian Express

-Ability to cancel v skill into SPD, or less white damage taken when using v skill, or faster white life recovery, or that white life scales with multiple hits like a combo would, or a faster start up on the punch of v skill so it will beat mashed jabs, or 4 frames hit advantage so you can link a jab afterwards. Any will do, but v skill need something.

And that's it. I would argue for faster SPD's, but that's a pipe dream. It seems he was designed around his v skill, but as it stands it's often better to block and poke out afterwards than it is to v skill. Absorbing hits rarely creates a frame advantage that blocking wouldn't achieve (exceptions being Nash's moonsault, etc, but even then you would only vskill to land super or a v trigger combo. Most of the time you'd want to anti air). If they tweaked v skill and lariat, he'd be fine.

 

[JJvercetti]

-A lariat with true upper body invincibility on start up to reliably anti air.

- Better horizontal hit box on lariat start up so that it will combo more reliably.

- less white damage taken when using v skill, or faster white life recovery, or that white life scales with multiple hits like a combo would,

This is probably the main thing for me.
I dream of having a faster walkspeed (just a tiny bit)
Maybe less recovery of forward dashes too

 

[ChoseDeath]

-A lariat with true upper body invincibility on start up to reliably anti air.

- Better horizontal hit box on lariat start up so that it will combo more reliably.

-Slightly less start up on Siberian Express

-Ability to cancel v skill into SPD, or less white damage taken when using v skill, or faster white life recovery, or that white life scales with multiple hits like a combo would, or a faster start up on the punch of v skill so it will beat mashed jabs, or 4 frames hit advantage so you can link a jab afterwards. Any will do, but v skill need something.

And that's it. I would argue for faster SPD's, but that's a pipe dream. It seems he was designed around his v skill, but as it stands it's often better to block and poke out afterwards than it is to v skill. Absorbing hits rarely creates a frame advantage that blocking wouldn't achieve (exceptions being Nash's moonsault, etc, but even then you would only vskill to land super or a v trigger combo. Most of the time you'd want to anti air). If they tweaked v skill and lariat, he'd be fine.

Yep. All of that should be beautiful. In fact, I wouldn't add anything to it. In a nutshell, make lariat NOT suck, give us some freaking combo ender with damage. ANYTHING. I don't care what, but buffing lariat would suffice. Make Siberian Blizzard so that we can hit it more frequently than once a week. Make it so you can't mash stuff and wreck V-Skill. Also buff his forward dash. There is no excuse for the amount of recovery on that piece of shit.


Instantly better character bros. You know he sucks when Snake Eyes bails on him... :'(

P.S. I had a Freudian Slip there... My GOD do I miss Ultra 2... I'm sad now.

 

[ChoseDeath]

@JJvercetti @countrypistol
Boys, I give up. I just got my ass beaten ALLLLLLLL the way back down to 2600 points in Ranked, and I lost four straight rounds to a Birdie (who I guess also played Gief, judging by his Title) who literally just stood still and countered every single thing I did, and I tried EVERYTHING. I can't do it anymore. Zangief is getting moved to Casual/Lounge matches only. I'm picking up Alex and Birdie or Mika. I'm just not good enough to overcome Gief's horrific handicaps. I have failed...

 

[countrypistol]

@JJvercetti @countrypistol
Boys, I give up. I just got my ass beaten ALLLLLLLL the way back down to 2600 points in Ranked, and I lost four straight rounds to a Birdie (who I guess also played Gief, judging by his Title) who literally just stood still and countered every single thing I did, and I tried EVERYTHING. I can't do it anymore. Zangief is getting moved to Casual/Lounge matches only. I'm picking up Alex and Birdie or Mika. I'm just not good enough to overcome Gief's horrific handicaps. I have failed...

I don't blame you. A good Birdie can be as tough as Dhalsim. That goddamn banana....

Personally I would pick Alex or Birdie. They have longer limbs than Gief and more options further out. Mika is easily zoned out too, so you'll probably find her bad match ups as bad Giefs.

 

[countrypistol]

Does anybody know of any punishes that can only be done with V Skill? Nash's moonsault landing can be interupted by the punch, but from what I've found so far most moves are better being blocked or countered (anti aired, armoured, etc). I'm looking for places to interupt with v skill, get the hit and cancel into trigger.

 

[JJvercetti]

@JJvercetti @countrypistol
Boys, I give up. I just got my ass beaten ALLLLLLLL the way back down to 2600 points in Ranked, and I lost four straight rounds to a Birdie (who I guess also played Gief, judging by his Title) who literally just stood still and countered every single thing I did, and I tried EVERYTHING. I can't do it anymore. Zangief is getting moved to Casual/Lounge matches only. I'm picking up Alex and Birdie or Mika. I'm just not good enough to overcome Gief's horrific handicaps. I have failed...

I dont blame you either Gief is not good in ranked, too much gimmicks and not really enough time to get a feel of the opponent especially if they stay for one match which happens a lot of the time.

Does anybody know of any punishes that can only be done with V Skill? Nash's moonsault landing can be interupted by the punch, but from what I've found so far most moves are better being blocked or countered (anti aired, armoured, etc). I'm looking for places to interupt with v skill, get the hit and cancel into trigger.

I had a quick look for this since I wanted to know the same thing and it looks like you can.

 

[countrypistol]

I dont blame you either Gief is not good in ranked, too much gimmicks and not really enough time to get a feel of the opponent especially if they stay for one match which happens a lot of the time.


I had a quick look for this since I wanted to know the same thing and it looks like you can.

Nice finds. I haven't looked at either of those match ups yet, so that's good to know.