General/Other - Mileena Mileena's True Tier Placement

[FROST_]

I've made the comparison before, but she feels like a Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn hybrid. She has the "jailing without actually jailing" factor that Harley had with her fullscreen presence of zoning but now add in a teleport. Mind you though, that there's no way to make it safe on block unlike pretty much EVERY other teleport in the game that still gets a combo after and gains armor. That, and in the neutral, corner and OKI game, she shares the threat Wonder Woman instilled along with her mobility and AA game.

I don't think she #1 much like how I never thought WW to be #1 or the Kabal of IGAU simply because a) the claims made were never proven and b) the characters still had to play against fluid playstyles very cautiously as well. However, I do find her easily in top 10. Top 5 is up for debate because even if characters like JC, Shinnok, Sonya and so on aren't as versatile as Mileena, their core game such as Cage's rush down is so (soap bar in my mouth), that it more than makes up for their lack in other tools (though there is hardly even a lack in there anyways).

What makes Mileena such a huge threat now more than before, is that NRS FINALLY fixed her bugs and glitches. Her pokes were necessary and nothing special ultimately since the entire roster now also has a 6-7f poke(s) which are either lows and/or safer than hers and with better range. That aside, her zoning being fixed and f4 not having ridiculous frame data were needed. The reason I've even mentioning any of this is that you can't Nerf her from this point without turning her into the mush they turned Tanya. Or without intentionally bugging her tools with inactive frames like how they were before. Mileena is a character with layers on top of layers of meta and add in her natural counter style, add that's pretty much why she can hold her own or win her MUs with very select few aside.

You got add me "Mr.Spike" as Fluffy call you

 

[The Celebrity]

Ahh to reminisce about several resident Mileena downplayers showcasing Jacqui poking out of a non-spaced non-frameperfect B12 in an attempt to call her fair or even weak.

Mileena completely shuts down some characters and wins at every single place on the screen. That fact alone can't really be ignored. Thank you Saltface for this thread and I actually really hope that you, F0xy and SonicFox sweep the next majors with her to prove your point.

 

[The Celebrity]

To touch base of KP2 since its being mentioned a lot, I only see Alien as "possibly" giving her a hard time, specifically Tarkatan. Cuz hey, Nerf some bs to the ground and bring in an improved version right after -_____- Him and maybe Drunken Master, mainly because the possibility AND viability of him getting in and 50/50ing you is there. The other variations and characters, she either wins or goes even. Yes, its very early on, but here's the thing. The game has been out for nearly a year, and at this point, everyone more or less understands the meta of the game and how already existing characters play and work (at least I would HOPE so....). KP2 is incredibly dumbed down that it really isn't rocket science to pick it apart and get a general idea of their strengths and weaknesses.

What do you think of the Cyber Subzero matchup? I think Full screen he holds threat with ice ball but naturally loses to low and mid sai. Midscreen F2 and IADK pose threats for Low Sai and Mid Sai, both of which outtrade. In the B12 dead zone he more than likely loses, but B2xxIce Ball EX punishes B12 on whiff and allows him to start his nonsense, so I can't really say that confidently (especially since cyber sub likes to have a lot of meter). His mobility in dive kick means he can safely enter the air unlike most characters and his corner traps almost force the Mileena player to use Ethereal to get out in which case they lose their low sai and B12 threat.

Keep in mind this is all just theory, I think I've played the matchup a single time since KP2 launched. I think it would be a very interesting matchup though with several mindgames.

 

[Akromaniac27]

In a nutshell:

Mileena has top 5 OKI. I wouldn't call it broke mainly because you can see her start it up, the full string or stagger leaves her either -6 or -10 and canceling into anything has a gap and/or is an unsafe, full combo punishable gap. A delayed wakeup also stuffs f12b4 once you HIT THE LAB and understand the timing. Oh, and the option to just not wake up IS still there you know...But the fact that she stops pretty much everyone from waking up, helps her tremendously.

Her neutral and corner game is amongst the best, but not the best IMO because of all the layers it has to it. Sure she can b12 over and over to bait you to do something, but chip has been minimized and b12 is now -1. It also hasn't become a true mid, so low profiling moves are still an option, or course keeping in mind that it plays into one of the layers of her meta as mentioned before, but yeah...

Her zoning has become fixed and/or improved, whatever floats your boat, but she still isn't free to just chuck shit all day long like Kitana can in most MUs or how Pretty Lady can. Her teleport, while very viable, is a tool that HAS to be used properly or else she loses her ground. I'm not saying it sucks, but unlike a vast amount of moves in the game, the fact that she can't abuse her specials is what keeps her in check.

Her 50/50s are true 50/50s in most scenarios but they are unsafe and meter dependent.

Overall, what I'm getting at is, yes, she has everything you can ask for in a versatile character and/or a counter character, but since she can't abuse anything continually or make anything plus +10 and higher like how countless characters can make their pressure become, I wouldn't call her #1. Amazing character (now), for sure, without a doubt, but not at the top in my opinion.

 

[Akromaniac27]

What do you think of the Cyber Subzero matchup? I think Full screen he holds threat with ice ball but naturally loses to low and mid sai. Midscreen F2 and IADK pose threats for Low Sai and Mid Sai, both of which outtrade. In the B12 dead zone he more than likely loses, but B2xxIce Ball EX punishes B12 on whiff and allows him to start his nonsense, so I can't really say that confidently (especially since cyber sub likes to have a lot of meter). His mobility in dive kick means he can safely enter the air unlike most characters and his corner traps almost force the Mileena player to use Ethereal to get out in which case they lose their low sai and B12 threat.

Keep in mind this is all just theory, I think I've played the matchup a single time since KP2 launched. I think it would be a very interesting matchup though with several mindgames.

There's always gonna be the natural 50/50 game against him by design, but because of the startup and recovery (though not a lot of it, I know) for his fullscreen game, she wins there from my experience. He HAS to play her game, and even more so if she has the life lead. Ultimately all she has to do is either push him, or walk him to the corner and then its very much in her favor. He can't wakeup, he can't AA her if she times and spaces herself right, his pokes aren't that good against a Mileena knowing how to space him out, and any slip up he does, she's netting anywhere from 30-45% right back into the corner all the while building meter, forcing him to guess a LOT more than he'll make her guess, and chipping him out in the process.

 

[ienjoywinning]

buff shinnok

 

[Frizen]

Every character has bad matchups though. Unless youre Yun from streetfighter.

Say hello to Zangief and probably Sagat and T.Hawk.

 

[The_Tile]

Universal nerf to chip.
Universal nerf to meter building.
All FBRCs have 3 frames less advantage on block
Breakers take both players stamina away.
Flying Kick MB is 0 on block
Everyone now has a move less than 8 frame.

IMO you can't compare him to characters like Cage, Mileena, or Kano now.

All of the system changes really don't affect Liu or Cage as much as you'd think. They still play exactly the same, the only reason he's not looking as crazy right now is because of KP2, as those characters are on another level.

I agree those characters you listed probably are better than him, but to suggest they're in a completely different ballpark is just downplay. The only somewhat significant changes to Liu were the breaker changes and Fkmb being changed because the super cheap stuff has gone. The risk reward is still in his favor though. All he has to do is zone after a breaker though vs most the cast as his fireballs are good and the cancel change is irrelevant because F213 still jails into itself.

 

[PND OmegaK]

To touch base of KP2 since its being mentioned a lot, I only see Alien as "possibly" giving her a hard time, specifically Tarkatan. Cuz hey, Nerf some bs to the ground and bring in an improved version right after -_____- Him and maybe Drunken Master, mainly because the possibility AND viability of him getting in and 50/50ing you is there. The other variations and characters, she either wins or goes even. Yes, its very early on, but here's the thing. The game has been out for nearly a year, and at this point, everyone more or less understands the meta of the game and how already existing characters play and work (at least I would HOPE so....). KP2 is incredibly dumbed down that it really isn't rocket science to pick it apart and get a general idea of their strengths and weaknesses.

I'm sorry but Bo Rai Cho does not stand a chance against Mileena in any of his variations.

The problem I have with Mileena is that she does not need to use her meter at all and she builds it insanely fast. It's so hard to actually get in to open her up and when you finally do she more than likely has a breaker, resetting the situation and making a large number of the cast essentially useless for a good few seconds until they can start working their way in again.

We'll see what happens though because it's still early days in a sense.

 

[Reauxbot]

Say hello to Zangief and probably Sagat and T.Hawk.

There's occasional T.Hawks I'd run into every NOW AND THEM lol.
Fuck Zangief

 

[N00B]

Finally that bitch exposed!
kitana, jacquie, dvora, sonya, takeda next pls. Downplaying needs to stop.

 

[IrishMantis]

Finally that bitch exposed!
kitana, jacquie, dvora, sonya, takeda next pls. Downplaying needs to stop.

Jacqui is not downplayed, in contrast to the rest of the cast she's one of the weaker ones

Most people say Kitana is mid tier which is fair as she no less or better than mid tier

 

[N00B]

Jacqui is not downplayed, in contrast to the rest of the cast she's one of the weaker ones

Most people say Kitana is mid tier which is fair as she no less or better than mid tier

You think the character with one of the best up close offense in the game(very good frametraps, in one variation its a jailing pressure with cancels) with safe armor, safe 50/50, metereless vortex, decent zoning, very fast normals(6 fr s1, 8 fr mid s4, 7 fr d1), top 3 walspeed, backwalkspeed and run speed is weaker once lmao? This lit annoying bitch jacqui is not low tier or even mid rier or the weaker one lmao, she is high tier atleast, stop with this "no one knows matchup bullshit" and "t-rex arms bullshit".
And you think the character who has the good zoning in all variation, in two variations its on full combo, good normals (9 fr mid b1 its a very good normal actually especially for zoner character, 6 fr poke now, fastest jump in attacks in the game, 5 fr its fucking fast tho), good two hitting armor, she even has a good pressure for a zoner character that breaks armor(yes in that mournfull she breaks armor when she pressuring you) and also she has a safe armor too(that shadow kick is safe tho) and with best walkbackspeed, backdash is mid tier lol? This very annoying ugly ass bitch kitana is not mid tier, she is high tier at least.
P.S. Im not saying they needs nerfs or buffs im just think they are downplaying in my humble opinion, they are high tier at least and doesnt needs buffs.

About thread, about mileener, i agree mileener is arguably top 1 now and has a very good neutral game(b12, b1 is 11 fr mid, b12 is 9 fr mid -1 on block with little recovery), decent up close game(6 fr d1, 7 fr d3), good deffense(meterless roll is low profiling some true mids like Johnnys F3, Lao s slow ass B3, Jaxs F2, its crazy, and you cant do oki on that bitch, ball roll its maybe the best meterless wake up), good meterless antiair(roll, its maybe even the best meterless antiair, if its not the best but its def one of the best antiair for sure) good zoning, good antizoning(telekick) and i guess she has a mix ups too right? That bitch has really all the tools(maybe ecxept pressure but now you see the charcater with good neutral, good zoning, fast pokes, mix ups doesnt really needs pressure tho). I think she defineelly beat Great Kung Lao(prepatch this match up was weird, maybe Lao had a little advantage but its was weird match up like 5-5 or 5-5 -4.5 but Lao gets nerfed and she gets buffed and now its def 6-4 mileena, so its very sad), Raiden(The Immortal Thunder God losing this match up since f1 nerf, with os nerf its become worse and now its unwinnable, so its very sad) and goes 5-5 against Jax(prepatch Jax had an advantage in this matchup but now its 5-5) imo.
Even if i hate this very annoying ugly ass bitch, dirty cheap whore mileener, i dont think she needs nerfs, im for justice, buff Raiden and Kung Lao instead.

 

[Baconlord]

You think the character with one of the best up close offense in the game(very good frametraps, in one variation its a jailing pressure with cancels) with safe armor, safe 50/50, metereless vortex, decent zoning, very fast normals(6 fr s1, 8 fr s4, 7 fr d1) is weaker once lmao? This lit annoying bitch is not low tier or even mid rier or the weaker one lmao, she is high tier atleast, stop with this "no one knows matchup bullshit".
And you think the character who has the good zoning in all variation, in two variations its on full combo, good normals (9 fr mid b1 its a very good normal actually especially for zoner character, 6 fr poke now, fastest jump in attacks in the game, 5 fr its fucking fast tho), good two hitting armor, she even has a good pressure for a zoner character that breaks armor(yes in that mournfull she breaks armor when she pressuring you) and also she has a safe armor too(that shadow kick is safe tho) is mid tier lol? This annoying ugly ass bitch is not mid tier, she is high tier at least.
P.S. Im not saying they needs nerfs or buffs im just think they are downplaying in my humble opinion, they are high tier at least and doesnt needs buffs.

About thread, about mileener, i agree mileener is arguably top 1 now and has a very good neutral game(b12, b1 is 11 fr mid, b12 is 9 fr mid -1 on block with little recovery), decent up close game(6 fr d1, 7 fr d3), good deffense(meterless roll is low profiling some true mids like Johnnys F3, Lao s slow ass B3 its crazy, its maybe the best meterless wake up), good meterless antiair(roll, its maybe even the best meterless antiair, if its not the best but its def one of the best antiair for sure) good zoning, good antizoning(telekick) and i guess she has a mix ups too right? That bitch has really all the tools(maybe ecxept pressure but now you see the charcater with good neutral, good zoning, fast pokes, mix ups doesnt really needs pressure tho). I think she defineelly beat Great Kung Lao(prepatch this match up was weird, maybe Lao had a little advantage but its was weird match up like 5-5 or 5-5 -4.5 but Lao gets nerfed and she gets buffed and now its def 6-4 mileena, so its very sad), Raiden(The Immortal Thunder God losing this match up since f1 nerf, with os nerf its become worse and now its unwinnable, so its very sad) and goes 5-5 against Jax(prepatch Jax has an advantage in this matchup but now its 5-5) imo.
Even if i hate this ugly ass bitch, dirty cheap whore mileener, i dont think she needs nerfs, im for justice, buff Raiden and Kung Lao instead.

Stop calling my character a bitch. Respect the Empress.

 

[N00B]

Stop calling my character a bitch. Respect the Empress.

I call the characters what i want, relax dude or girl, its a fictional character, she is not real aha.

You can call Raiden or Kung Lao bitch if you want im not gonna geting butthurt about this one like you getting butthurt about mileener lmao.

 

[ArmedCalf]

You think the character with one of the best up close offense in the game(very good frametraps, in one variation its a jailing pressure with cancels) with safe armor, safe 50/50, metereless vortex, decent zoning, very fast normals(6 fr s1, 8 fr mid s4, 7 fr d1) is weaker once lmao? This lit annoying bitch is not low tier or even mid rier or the weaker one lmao, she is high tier atleast, stop with this "no one knows matchup bullshit" and "t-rex arms bullshit".
And you think the character who has the good zoning in all variation, in two variations its on full combo, good normals (9 fr mid b1 its a very good normal actually especially for zoner character, 6 fr poke now, fastest jump in attacks in the game, 5 fr its fucking fast tho), good two hitting armor, she even has a good pressure for a zoner character that breaks armor(yes in that mournfull she breaks armor when she pressuring you) and also she has a safe armor too(that shadow kick is safe tho) is mid tier lol? This very annoying ugly ass bitch is not mid tier, she is high tier at least.
P.S. Im not saying they needs nerfs or buffs im just think they are downplaying in my humble opinion, they are high tier at least and doesnt needs buffs.

About thread, about mileener, i agree mileener is arguably top 1 now and has a very good neutral game(b12, b1 is 11 fr mid, b12 is 9 fr mid -1 on block with little recovery), decent up close game(6 fr d1, 7 fr d3), good deffense(meterless roll is low profiling some true mids like Johnnys F3, Lao s slow ass B3, Jaxs F2, its crazy, its maybe the best meterless wake up), good meterless antiair(roll, its maybe even the best meterless antiair, if its not the best but its def one of the best antiair for sure) good zoning, good antizoning(telekick) and i guess she has a mix ups too right? That bitch has really all the tools(maybe ecxept pressure but now you see the charcater with good neutral, good zoning, fast pokes, mix ups doesnt really needs pressure tho). I think she defineelly beat Great Kung Lao(prepatch this match up was weird, maybe Lao had a little advantage but its was weird match up like 5-5 or 5-5 -4.5 but Lao gets nerfed and she gets buffed and now its def 6-4 mileena, so its very sad), Raiden(The Immortal Thunder God losing this match up since f1 nerf, with os nerf its become worse and now its unwinnable, so its very sad) and goes 5-5 against Jax(prepatch Jax had an advantage in this matchup but now its 5-5) imo.
Even if i hate this very annoying ugly ass bitch, dirty cheap whore mileener, i dont think she needs nerfs, im for justice, buff Raiden and Kung Lao instead.

The t-rex arms thing is an excuse lol, it's the only thing holding her back from being outrageous imo. If she had range she'd be reeeeeally really nice, but if she gets put in a corner there a characters that get away with murder against her. She actually has to run forward a bit before she can punish certain things. She has a lot of great tools and she hits like a truck, but I don't think she's in the top 10 atm.

 

[Baconlord]

I call the characters what i want, relax dude or girl, its a fictional character, she is not real aha.

You can call Raiden or Kung Lao bitch if you want im not gonna geting butthurt about this one like you getting butthurt about mileener lmao.

Never say the empress's name in vain

 

[N00B]

Never say the empress's name in vain

lmao

 

[TheGabStandard]

yea man, we never even played on the beta haha. be good to get some vs alien exp aswell.
mantis said your connection is better vs him with the new netcode so hopefully its up to my lagnazi standard only been playing irish/uk people since mkxl and its been a awesome so far

EDIT: so you should add @TheGabStandard for another eu mileena, although HES NEVER FUCKING ONLINE EVEN AFTER HE ASKS FOR GAMES

Lol I probably deserve a blow up for that. Been a man in heavy demand IRL so haven't had the time to jump online. Since MKXL has been out (excusing AFK Rotterdam) i have probably played for about 4 hours online lol. Will try to appear more frequently though

 

[ismael4790]

I wouldn't say she's top one, but after this patch, not below top 10 for sure.
She was a well rounded char even before the patch, needed some tweaks, yes, and got some questionably needed buffs. She excels at many fields now.

 

[GAV]

I like how this thread started. I would love to see an updated tier list. Here's the current S+ and S tier members, IMO...

S+ Tier - Cyber Sub, Tarkatan, Butcher, Impostor
S Tier - Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, Piercing, Cutthroat

Am I way off on anyone in there? Did I miss anyone?

 

[OnlineSkunk]

Mileena is low tier still, She will always suck with her design. She can't counter zone or outzone no one lol it's all about adapting to the Mileena player playstyle, Mileena players quickly run out of options once you've adapted to their playstyle then had to rely on unsafe YOLO

 

[Asodimazze]

Ronin gives her a good match imho

I like how this thread started. I would love to see an updated tier list. Here's the current S+ and S tier members, IMO...

S+ Tier - Cyber Sub, Tarkatan, Butcher, Impostor
S Tier - Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, Piercing, Cutthroat

Am I way off on anyone in there? Did I miss anyone?

S+ - Mileena, CSZ, Liu Kang
S - Ronin

 

[CrimsonShadow]

But I thought Mileena was ruined due to her b12 being nerfed into a disastrous -1. She's no longer viable since she clearly didn't have any other good tools.

Where will the downplayers hide now that the upplayers have come out to play?

 

[Baconlord]

But I thought Mileena was ruined due to her b12 being nerfed into a disastrous -1. She's no longer viable since she clearly didn't have any other good tools.

Where will the downplayers hide now that the upplayers have come out to play?

B1 being -1 > B12 being plus 2