Tech - Smoke Universal Anti-Wakeup Setup

[Scott The Scot]

Not long after messing around with the 213 hard knockdown ender I decided to see what else I can do to condition the opponent not to wakeup. This also works off of a sweep since it's like +27 on hit and F213.

It's very injustice-like, so it might be universal to everyone with their sweep but I'm not sure. It's simple, just knock them down, run up and then crouch-cancel the run and instantly neutral jump. This beats a vast majority of wakeups. It doesn't beat stuff like Sektors Ex Flame or Lao's spin. And if it doesn't reverse the wakeup, you can bet your ass that it'll still beat it!

This is the sort of tech that you might look at and say "damn, I wish I had a hitbox"
but with practice I'm sure you'll get it. If you're on pad you can run and use the analogue stick to press down then your other thumb can come across and press up. Maybe.

Spoiler: DOESN'T WORK AGAINST THESE WAKEUPS (work in progress):

Temepst Lao's EX Spin
Buzzsaw/HT Ex Spin *Works off of F213/Sweep consistently, only. 213 is inconsistent*
Jax's EX Gotcha Grab
Sektors EX Flame Thrower
Kung Jin's Lunge Kick *Works off of F213/Sweep consistently, only. 213 is inconsistent*
Sub Zero's EX Shatter thingy...
Kanos EX(& non Ex) Up Ball
Kanos EX Ball *If held*

God Confirms notes after looking into the tech which I think is worth knowing:

Hey Scott, I'm really liking what you are finding with Smoke. I'm stuck between disliking Smoke's low damage vortex coin flips, but also struggling with his absolutely worthless oki game (shitty oki strings and most midscreen enders send fullscreen). This seems like an excellent way to take a bit more damage off each combo (metered ones anyway), while still being able to apply a good oki mix-up, and also not be too worried about armor just like the vortex. And also it's sexy injustice style tech. I think it's exactly the middle ground I'm looking for and I think I'm going to make this my go to ender for my metered combos that don't end anywhere near a corner (where F43~Throwdown is obviously optimal).



Some notes:


a delayed NjK on the way back down jails into both F1 and F4. An NjP delayed to the very last second can also do the same, but the window is 3 frames tighter.

Both options will still leave you plus regardless if used on the way down, I didn't have too much trouble at all beating out Lao spin with my F1 even after an NjP.

Tip for execution on stick, just learn the timing to input the run as soon as possible during the end of the animation, hold Up on the stick, and tap the block button for a millisecond when its the right timing to NjP.


213 and F213 are both HKD. Your other HKD alternative's are B213, Sweep, or Air Throw, but Sweep is pretty bad combo wise with crappy range and is going to cost you damage, midscreen air throw sends them too far, and B213 only leaves you +3, so this tech is mostly pretty much restricted to the first two options.


If anyone's interested in max damage combo's giving this set-up, here's what I could find.

Spoiler

F13/111~EX-TP, RC, 21, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, RC, 213 = 37% 1-Bar

F43~EX-TP, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, RC, F213 = 39%

As far as I can tell it's not worth going for it off a meterless opener, getting only like 1% extra than going for the vortex, and in the corner you don't need to alter your combo's as you already get this set-up off your F43~Throwdown ender anyway, but midscreen the damage kinda justifies the bar a bit better than the vortex combo's do, at least to me.

What do you all think?
@Smarrgasm
@MajinBerserker
@Pan1cMode
@Name v.5.0
@Error404
@BornThroughAshes
@just_2swift
@boba_buster
@Juggs
@RiBBz22
@xSamuel
@Redux
@Jer
@SneakyTortoise
@NeedToLearnEverySmokeMainSorryIfIForgotYou

Just trying to help,
Scott

(Also how dope was the music in the video? Right?)

 

[xSamuel]

Love it @Scott The Scot

 

[Doombawkz]

... Found it in April.
Of last year.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Tricky to do or not, this is pretty cool. Worth a lab session, for sure.
I'll be interested to test against, say, Cassie's Flip Kick or Shaolin KJ's EX Cartwheel thing.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Tricky to do or not, this is pretty cool. Worth a lab session, for sure.
I'll be interested to test against, say, Cassie's Flip Kick or Shaolin KJ's EX Cartwheel thing.

Cassies Flip Kick no longer has armour so if you think she'll do that then you can stuff it with a B1/B3 mixup.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Just thinking here (at work, no game access)-
Does then run-NJ cancel cause the wake up reversal for some characters?
F213 as an ender puts Smoke right in their grill, so it could be used as the ender if you want to NJ and avoid/punish their WU. It's also insane hit adv. Wouldn't need to run for your proximity.
*Ignore this post if the run is required to mess with their WU. The odd WU is pretty beneficial.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Cassies Flip Kick no longer has armour so if you think she'll do that then you can stuff it with a B1/B3 mixup.

That's true. Nvm on that one- haven't played against a Cassie since the patch.
EX Glow Kick?

 

[big j gleez]

That music! haha.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Just thinking here (at work, no game access)-
Does then run-NJ cancel cause the wake up reversal for some characters?
F213 as an ender puts Smoke right in their grill, so it could be used as the ender if you want to NJ and avoid/punish their WU. It's also insane hit adv. Wouldn't need to run for your proximity.
*Ignore this post if the run is required to mess with their WU. The odd WU is pretty beneficial.

The run is required to mess their WU. You can do it with F213 as well you'll be glad to know but not B213 (not enough advantage)

That's true. Nvm on that one- haven't played against a Cassie since the patch.
EX Glow Kick?

To be fair Cassies flip does mess it up and still AA's you for trying. However you can OS that because it doesn't have armour with a instant NJP to stuff the flip/Ex flip but also cover your option of avoiding her other wakeups.

That music! haha.

It's great right?

 

[shad0ki11er 27]

great tech but does it work against mileenas ball roll?

 

[Scott The Scot]

great tech but does it work against mileenas ball roll?

Yes, her meterless one and her EX one

 

[MajinBerserker]

@Scott The Scot Good to know about the Cassie WU game. Thx for clarifying.

I'll just have to lab F213 and 213, see which is more comfortable to me to get the run. I'd def like to be as consistent as possible.

 

[Error404]

Getting Doomsday flashbacks from this Good stuff I'm definitely borrowing this

 

[Scott The Scot]

@Scott The Scot Good to know about the Cassie WU game. Thx for clarifying.

I'll just have to lab F213 and 213, see which is more comfortable to me to get the run. I'd def like to be as consistent as possible.

They're both really consistent, fortunately. F213 is easy to see because the opponent falls facing vertically as opposes to 213 in which the opponent falls facing horizontally which can look funny for a visual cue.

Getting Doomsday flashbacks from this Good stuff I'm definitely borrowing this

Have fun!

 

[Reauxbot]

Whats the name of that song sir?
Or maam
Im able to also land it more consistently after a f213. Its much easier
Edit: This is awesome. Ex Teleport if the do take the bait.
Dudes starting to get a lot of setups. Good thing I kept playing him. More and more stuff being found daily

 

[Darth Rambo]

Not long after messing around with the 213 hard knockdown ender I decided to see what else I can do to condition the opponent not to wakeup. This also works off of a sweep since it's like +27 on hit and F213.

It's very injustice-like, so it might be universal to everyone with their sweep but I'm not sure. It's simple, just knock them down, run up and then crouch-cancel the run and instantly neutral jump. This beats a vast majority of wakeups. It doesn't beat stuff like Sektors Ex Flame or Lao's spin. And if it doesn't reverse the wakeup, you can bet your ass that it'll still beat it!

This is the sort of tech that you might look at and say "damn, I wish I had a hitbox"
but with practice I'm sure you'll get it. If you're on pad you can run and use the analogue stick to press down then your other thumb can come across and press up. Maybe.

Spoiler: DOESN'T WORK AGAINST THESE WAKEUPS (work in progress):

Temepst Lao's EX Spin
Buzzsaw/HT Ex Spin *Works off of F213/Sweep consistently, only. 213 is inconsistent*
Jax's EX Gotcha Grab
Sektors EX Flame Thrower
Kung Jin's Lunge Kick *Works off of F213/Sweep consistently, only. 213 is inconsistent*

What do you all think?
@Smarrgasm
@MajinBerserker
@Pan1cMode
@Name v.5.0
@Error404
@BornThroughAshes
@just_2swift
@boba_buster
@Juggs
@RiBBz22
@xSamuel
@Redux
@Jer
@SneakyTortoise
@NeedToLearnEverySmokeMainSorryIfIForgotYou

Just trying to help,
Scott

(Also how dope was the music in the video? Right?)

This looks really good, and yes that music was dope lol

 

[MajinBerserker]

@Scott The Scot Just noticed the "Does not work on..." box, great item to add to the OP. Just wanted to second KJ's Lunge Kick. I tested KJ out tonight, as I have a consistent KJ training partner. I found the same thing, F213 just works more consistently. I was able to avoid his EX Cartwheel Smash with both combos, 213 was just slightly tighter. With practice, can be used consistently.
Didn't get too much lab time, but seeing which characters wake up options I/Smokes should use 213 and F213 as hkds for is something I'll be getting to. Fun stuff.
Another note, 213 is more damaging by 2-3% (I didn't test it with every single BnB, for exact % increase on each). Personally, I'll try and use 213 for that extra few % each time, if I can, depending on the opponent's wake up options.

213 has +22f hit advantage on hkd.
F213 has +29 hit adv. on hkd.
-For meaty B1, I honestly liked the timing and spacing of the 213 ender better. Just a side note. Ending in F213 gives almost a little too much hit adv. and the meaty B1 timing felt awkward, to me.

 

[Invincible Salads]

The run is required to mess their WU. You can do it with F213 as well you'll be glad to know but not B213 (not enough advantage)

To be fair Cassies flip does mess it up and still AA's you for trying. However you can OS that because it doesn't have armour with a instant NJP to stuff the flip/Ex flip but also cover your option of avoiding her other wakeups.



It's great right?

so an instant njp is what you would need to do vs cassie to beat out the ex flip huh? mk

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

does raiden ex vicinity blast hit him? what about smokeport for the mirror or any other vertical tele?

 

[omooba]

lol really swaggy my favorite part is how if you read wake up and do this they can't question whether it was a read or not
i'm guessing they can do stuff like uppercut and njp. correct me if i'm wrong cus if they can't, instant smoke main

 

[Scott The Scot]

so an instant njp is what you would need to do vs cassie to beat out the ex flip huh? mk

And regular flip and reverse all of her other wakeups lol

 

[Scott The Scot]

lol really swaggy my favorite part is how if you read wake up and do this they can't question whether it was a read or not
i'm guessing they can do stuff like uppercut and njp. correct me if i'm wrong cus if they can't, instant smoke main

You can do a punch after you jump to beat those options but if they block it then you lose your turn.

 

[Scott The Scot]

@Scott The Scot Just noticed the "Does not work on..." box, great item to add to the OP. Just wanted to second KJ's Lunge Kick. I tested KJ out tonight, as I have a consistent KJ training partner. I found the same thing, F213 just works more consistently. I was able to avoid his EX Cartwheel Smash with both combos, 213 was just slightly tighter. With practice, can be used consistently.
Didn't get too much lab time, but seeing which characters wake up options I/Smokes should use 213 and F213 as hkds for is something I'll be getting to. Fun stuff.
Another note, 213 is more damaging by 2-3% (I didn't test it with every single BnB, for exact % increase on each). Personally, I'll try and use 213 for that extra few % each time, if I can, depending on the opponent's wake up options.

213 has +22f hit advantage on hkd.
F213 has +29 hit adv. on hkd.
-For meaty B1, I honestly liked the timing and spacing of the 213 ender better. Just a side note. Ending in F213 gives almost a little too much hit adv. and the meaty B1 timing felt awkward, to me.

Every meaty is possible with a little practice

 

[Invincible Salads]

And regular flip and reverse all of her other wakeups lol

too bad delayed njp would get beat out

 

[MajinBerserker]

For OP-
Sub Zero' wake up EX Shatter: blows up the NJ/njp after hkd-run.
I didn't not test just the normal Shatter ln WU. Or run-NJK.