General/Other - Kung Lao What would kung lao require in KP2?

[Carl]

-5 on normal hatspin and +10 on EX hat would actually be really cool.

Tbh i was actually expecting the nornal hat -7 or so as everyone complained about it but i still think +7 with no push back is good or +10 the least.

 

[The_Tile]

Ill be happy with some frame data adjustments like foxy was saying.
In the beta its just very annoying that i cannot be rewarded or continue my pressure for using the ex hat but as i hear the beta is 1 month old and some things are staying and some are going so i can barely contain my excitement for the friday balance cast.

You are rewarded, you're plus 7. Just because you have to hold armor and armor only doesn't mean you're at a disadvantage. Lao still has a way to best every one of your opponents options with less risk into higher reward.

And something you said about Lao being a pressure character across variations, I disagree with that. Hat Trick is his pressure variation, Buzzsaw for mixups and Tempest for utility. The only real problem with Hat Trick pre beta was that Tempest did everything Hat Trick was supposed to do but better and for less resources, hopefully now that'll change.

 

[Carl]

You are rewarded, you're plus 7. Just because you have to hold armor and armor only doesn't mean you're at a disadvantage. Lao still has a way to best every one of your opponents options with less risk into higher reward.

And something you said about Lao being a pressure character across variations, I disagree with that. Hat Trick is his pressure variation, Buzzsaw for mixups and Tempest for utility. The only real problem with Hat Trick pre beta was that Tempest did everything Hat Trick was supposed to do but better and for less resources, hopefully now that'll change.

At +7 he cannot bait armor moves using the b321 ex hat then hold block. You can get punished for that now whereas before i would hold block and try to expect a reversal then punish it. So this is the main issue as i was doing it on a johnny cage the other day in the beta and i kept getting ex nut punch always so it felt worthless to use the bar as i cant bait anything with it in that string. It just seems pointless to use the ex hat.

 

[just_2swift]

Actually if you do it in midscreen and let the hat run and when it hits you do a s1 and into b32 spin that works as well.
I was thinking of another buff for hattrick where you can enhance the throw in teleport without using 2 bars.

Know the midscreen lol they don't call me God Fist Lao for nothing lol as for the teleport fix the tracking when you delay it. Right now he just stays in there previous spot. Remove the height requirements for follow ups when Tele 3 hits allowing you to combo.

Dream tele buff: allow him to retain the armor on teleport when he comes out of the ground.

 

[The_Tile]

At +7 he cannot bait armor moves using the b321 ex hat then hold block. You can get punished for that now whereas before i would hold block and try to expect a reversal then punish it. So this is the main issue as i was doing it on a johnny cage the other day in the beta and i kept getting ex nut punch always so it felt worthless to use the bar as i cant bait anything with it in that string. It just seems pointless to use the ex hat.

Then don't use the bar, if you want to bait armor use raw B321 and just block. You don't spend any bar, your opponent does, and you get the punish. It's all about dem readz.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

A better voice actor to begin with. His dialogues are cringe worthy...and buff Hat Trick.

 

[Carl]

Then don't use the bar, if you want to bait armor use raw B321 and just block. You don't spend any bar, your opponent does, and you get the punish. It's all about dem readz.

I dont like the b321 as its not plus. i would rather spend the bar and be plus thats just the way i like to play.

 

[Carl]

Know the midscreen lol they don't call me God Fist Lao for nothing lol as for the teleport fix the tracking when you delay it. Right now he just stays in there previous spot. Remove the height requirements for follow ups when Tele 3 hits allowing you to combo.

Dream tele buff: allow him to retain the armor on teleport when he comes out of the ground.

Indulge me why they call you god fist lao? lol

 

[The_Tile]

I dont like the b321 as its not plus. i would rather spend the bar and be plus thats just the way i like to play.

Yeah but that's not balanced, being plus all day isn't how any character should play, MKX has just spoiled all of us.

The only time you'd have to throw out B321 on its own anyway is to bait armor. It doesn't matter if you're plus or not because if they armor you're getting a full punish into more pressure.

Lao is fine, completely fine. This is crazy to me, Quan has been shat all over and the community are generally okay with it, Lao is still a very good character and all I'm seeing is buff this, give me more plus frames and keep me safe on everything. That's not how a character works. Just like Summoner, Tempest was too good, however unlike Summoner, he's still definitely on the upper end of the tier list.

 

[Carl]

Yeah but that's not balanced, being plus all day isn't how any character should play, MKX has just spoiled all of us.

The only time you'd have to throw out B321 on its own anyway is to bait armor. It doesn't matter if you're plus or not because if they armor you're getting a full punish into more pressure.

Lao is fine, completely fine. This is crazy to me, Quan has been shat all over and the community are generally okay with it, Lao is still a very good character and all I'm seeing is buff this, give me more plus frames and keep me safe on everything. That's not how a character works. Just like Summoner, Tempest was too good, however unlike Summoner, he's still definitely on the upper end of the tier list.

If im spending bar then i should be plus all day. If im spending no bar then different story. We are not asking for more plus frames all we ask is that ex hat at least be +10 which isnt much to ask. Also with quan chi he gets a faster wake up and gets to delay his rune into ex rune and so he got buffed thats why quan chi players arent complaining.
By having the hat plus its creates pressure at the cost of a bar which is something he uses alot since he dont have mix ups. Lao isnt a safe character there is always a gap inbetween the hat spin so regardless they can make a string safe for him but when u use the hat spin theres a gap.

 

[The_Tile]

If im spending bar then i should be plus all day. If im spending no bar then different story. We are not asking for more plus frames all we ask is that ex hat at least be +10 which isnt much to ask. Also with quan chi he gets a faster wake up and gets to delay his rune into ex rune and so he got buffed thats why quan chi players arent complaining.
By having the hat plus its creates pressure at the cost of a bar which is something he uses alot since he dont have mix ups. Lao isnt a safe character there is always a gap inbetween the hat spin so regardless they can make a string safe for him but when u use the hat spin theres a gap.

Have I seriously read such delights as:
"We're not asking for more plus frames, just ex hat to be plus 10"
"Quan Chi has been buffed"
"Kung Lao isn't a safe character"

This has to be a troll, either way I'm done here. Kung Lao is fine, level up scrubs.

 

[Carl]

Have I seriously read such delights as:
"We're not asking for more plus frames, just ex hat to be plus 10"
"Quan Chi has been buffed"
"Kung Lao isn't a safe character"

This has to be a troll, either way I'm done here. Kung Lao is fine, level up scrubs.

Those 3 quotes are 100% true. I wasn't trolling just to let you know. But im glad your done here as you know nothing about lao.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lol everyone keep tagging me into hat trick suggestions aha.

The variation is awesome indeed, it's on a right direction sure, but it's one of the most gimmicky of the game, I don't think hat trick looks bad, I just think that aside from fixing his hcbs randomly whiffing when it shouldn't I should be able to do a bnb if I set my hat behind me and guess correctly on you trying to prevent me to use my mixups if you bet very high with a punishable move, I should be able to get a combo, even if my hat is further away to connect on hit with a little extension to buy time.

I should be able to place my above hat on a tragectory where I can actually threat you to not jump, instead of right above my head where it doesn't do anything and doesn't protect me from anything.

My punish should be able to reach if I react with a tele to your projectile every time, not just when it suits the system

I know a lot of people want hat trick to have more plus frames to continuous pressure with forward trap, I can see that happening due no a single player respecting his traps at all, but Lao isn't a walking tank that allows you to solely press forward.

If he gets this changes I dunno how good he will become, but I know he will be very viable, the variation should get rewards for using the tools right, not getting punished for using the tools right or not getting reward for doing a correct read.

 

[Carl]

Lol everyone keep tagging me into hat trick suggestions aha.

The variation is awesome indeed, it's on a right direction sure, but it's one of the most gimmicky of the game, I don't think hat trick looks bad, I just think that aside from fixing his hcbs randomly whiffing when it shouldn't I should be able to do a bnb if I set my hat behind me and guess correctly on you trying to prevent me to use my mixups if you bet very high with a punishable move, I should be able to get a combo, even if my hat is further away to connect on hit with a little extension to buy time.

I should be able to place my above hat on a tragectory where I can actually threat you to not jump, instead of right above my head where it doesn't do anything and doesn't protect me from anything.

My punish should be able to reach if I react with a tele to your projectile every time, not just when it suits the system

I know a lot of people want hat trick to have more plus frames to continuous pressure with forward trap, I can see that happening due no a single player respecting his traps at all, but Lao isn't a walking tank that allows you to solely press forward.

If he gets this changes I dunno how good he will become, but I know he will be very viable, the variation should get rewards for using the tools right, not getting punished for using the tools right or not getting reward for doing a correct read.

With hattrick b22 into HT then HCB do you find at times you can F2 and sometimes you cant?

 

[The_Tile]

Those 3 quotes are 100% true. I wasn't trolling just to let you know. But im glad your done here as you know nothing about lao.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Eddy Wang]

With hattrick b22 into HT then HCB do you find at times you can F2 and sometimes you cant?

You can't do b22~hat trap on block and block confirm f2, b22~hat trap is -5. But the mind game is there.
If you do b2~hat trap which is also safe can throw off timing to let you hit a f2 when they try to let go block.

You can also backdash after b22trap or b2trap.

I use all traps setups on block to test mashers, those who like to mash are caught by d4~hcb most of the time, otherwise you just dont let your traps out, keep staggering

 

[Hellbringer]

NRS I WANT MOAARR +FRAMEZZ

 

[N00B]

you all know they nerfed in general chip damage and throw easy to tech now so thats a huge nerfs for characters withouth mix ups especially for kung lao
j2 nerfs was needed but thats hurts his neutral and hes ground game not too strong comparing too jax and johnny for example tho he needs some small buffs too for all variations in general not only nerfs.
i dont understant why they nerfed ex hat, thats +12 was fine with pushback and with startup of his normals, with +12 he can jail with d4 and f2 but not consistanly, thats was not easy and again he spend 1 bar tho, i think more effective spending stamina than meter for pressure shout out to cancel characters and not forgot about characters with mix ups, if kung lao was a mix up character +7 on his ex hat or less would be reasonable, but he is not a mix up character for example kano is a mix up character in cuthroat and his ex knifes is a projectail and +7 i guess.
i just wish all kung lao variations being strong and fair, not broke ofc so i think this buffs not make him broke or op, no, he would be just strong complete character like jax for example.

nerfs
okay he already have j2 nerf, damage nerf e.t.c. including this nerfs, he needs this nerfs for balance tempest with new buffs that i wish in general
nerf damage on 3% or 5% again, especially on b321 scalling
reg orb hat in tempest -6 on block

buffs
general
1) s1 being 6 fr - 6 fr s1, would be very good and also he already has gaps in 11212 and 112124 and 6 fr s1 its very good for up close game and for escape from frametraps safely not risking with ex spin, tho. i think if character has 6-7 fr high with 6-7 fr poke he stronger upclose than character with 6 fr s1 and 8-9 fr mid but lao doesnt needs 6 fr d1, he needs 6 fr s1 imo, he just needs it

2) 11 being 8 fr - seriosly its 11 fr and 11212 and 112124 has gaps now, he needs those frames

3) f2 being 10 fr -3 on block - why not f2 is not true mid and if ex hat would be +10 he can not jail consistanly, honestly i think in tempest he should jail with f2 tho f2 being 10 fr with +10 is fine, and dont forgot he has gaps in f23 and f21.

4)b1 being 8 fr -4 on block - seriously this normal should be improved, 12 fr short range bad hitbox mid for up close game is useless, lao doesnt have fast mid for up close game(like raiden doesnt have long range mid for neutral game and also raiden doesnt have good tools against low profiling) and i think he needs fast mid for up close game, seriously lao gets whoped against jax, sonya, cassie and even kitana up close and also b1 and b12 has very cool animation
b1 and b12 hitbox issues needs to be fixed - its whiff on females characters mostly, even if b1 would be 8 fr with whiff problems on females its would be useless tbh

5) b3 being 13 fr - b3 just should be 13 fr okay, i know its true mid but 15 fr its just slow ok and b321 has gap

6) f4 being 11 fr -6 on block - come on man now its 18 fr overhead not a combostarter and -13 on block... that safe mofo kung jin has simillar properites on his b3 -3 on block and he can combo off of it but kung lao can not combo off of f4 overhead so its would be fine and more usefull and its has very cool animation

7)f3 being 12 fr -2 on block - thats would be alternative for b3 and its has better range. this normal should be improved, also that f3 and f34 animation is very cool
f34 being +2 on block - i think its would be fair if gap stay in f34 tho

with all this impovements in general i think all his variations would be strong and fair. i dont know about hat trick too much but i think general improvements on his normals and ex spin would help.

buzz saw and hat trick
1)buff damage on ex spin +5% - 25% damage after ex spin is a joke

okay i think he needs those improvements on his normals because not forgot about j2 nerf his neutral is worse now, and i think that j2 was not fair but its covered lack of fast normals and so does big metereless damage in tempest its also covered lack of fast normals and not forgot about general nerfs on chip damage, throw easy to tech now, thats all very hurts to kung lao in general, thats why he needs those iprovements imo.

p.s. kung lao is kung fu master, the reincarnation of great kung lao who was the champion 500 hundred years ago(i think goro cheated against great lao just like coward shao "pussy, bitch" kahn cheated against lao in mk9) he is the greatest kung lao!

p.s. and buff raiden too...

and yes my english is terrible but i tryed lol its just my thoughts, my personal opinion dont get butthurt, troll e.t.c. or how that shit called .

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Wow. Just wow.

As much as i thought that Quan Chi (Current patch not beta)wasn't that much of a pain in the butt but saying "Quan Chi has been buffed" in the beta is something that we simply cannot say is not a troll....

 

[WiseM0nkey]

You are rewarded, you're plus 7. Just because you have to hold armor and armor only doesn't mean you're at a disadvantage. Lao still has a way to best every one of your opponents options with less risk into higher reward.

And something you said about Lao being a pressure character across variations, I disagree with that. Hat Trick is his pressure variation, Buzzsaw for mixups and Tempest for utility. The only real problem with Hat Trick pre beta was that Tempest did everything Hat Trick was supposed to do but better and for less resources, hopefully now that'll change.

care to explain wich is this magic way to best everyone else at +7?

1) 112124 / b321 followups are pokable by characters with a 7f normal (wich seems to be almost everyone in the beta).
2) threat of armour is always there, so when the opponent has a bar you have to 100% bait it. your turn is basically over.
3) d4 / f2 check gives little reward and there are ways around that such as bdash for instance.
4) walk back to whiff punish doesnt always work cause his walk speed sucks balls.

dunno man... Basically the whole meta is weaker cause you have a lesser mindgame from ex hat, without having an efficent way to open ppl up besides a throw.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just a quick note, hat trick also struggles against tempest, because hcb is -7 on block he can be punished by reversal every single time he uses to finish his pressure, just hope colt let this move be -6 at least, otherwise he would never be able to apply pressure unless he has meter.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

As a lao main im offended you dont play tempest lmaoooooo.

lol I know I just really like b2, low hat online infinites.

 

[just_2swift]

NRS I WANT MOAARR +FRAMEZZ

 

[The_Tile]

care to explain wich is this magic way to best everyone else at +7?

1) 112124 / b321 followups are pokable by characters with a 7f normal (wich seems to be almost everyone in the beta).
2) threat of armour is always there, so when the opponent has a bar you have to 100% bait it. your turn is basically over.
3) d4 / f2 check gives little reward and there are ways around that such as bdash for instance.
4) walk back to whiff punish doesnt always work cause his walk speed sucks balls.

dunno man... Basically the whole meta is weaker cause you have a lesser mindgame from ex hat, without having an efficent way to open ppl up besides a throw.

There is no "magic way to best everyone", but that's okay. That's my whole point, he doesn't need to have a magic way to beat every option, that would be unfair. But what he does have, is a counter to every one of the opponents options.

1) Walk back and whiff punish pokes or fast normals.
2) Yeah, like most characters you do have to block to bait armour, or use F4 if you're feeling lucky.
3) D4 check gives follow up pressure on hit and is only slightly - on block. Also opens you up for whiff punish opportunities because of the range D4 leave you on block. If they backdash you do a B321 and catch them into a full combo.
4) Walk back whiff punish won't beat every poke or normal, which is where you Tempest players will have to do a bit of labbing to find out what you can and can't punish. Because of the pushback on ExHat though this is definitely a legit move.

Saying Tempest Lao has no way to open people up is the same as saying Cage has no way to open people up, which is just absurd. Throws and staggers are Lao's best friend, that and his good normals are all he needs to open people up.

 

[nathancorsini]

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR NERFS! Lol jk