Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[Dankster Morgan]

I think scorpion is even or sub wins, Liu kang is even, kung Jin shaolin beats sub, D'Vorah is probably 3-7, goro is probably even, but great job! We should do variations too. Thanks for making the graphic it looks really nice.

 

[llabslb]

Oh yeah I forgot about Kung Jin. It's tough to say about scorpion but I'm convinced Kang wins the match up against sub. Lets see what others think.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Oh yeah I forgot about Kung Jin. It's tough to say about scorpion but I'm convinced Kang wins the match up against sub. Lets see what others think.

I'm almost certain that Scorp is even.
@RM Ree what do you think about the Liu matchup?

 

[llabslb]

I've managed to figure out a suitable way to design a match up chart for MKX. Designing it alone will take quite some time. All variations will be included.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I've managed to figure out a suitable way to design a match up chart for MKX. Designing it alone will take quite some time. All variations will be included.

Nice

 

[Snoop88]

Really nice graphic. I was only a little bit confused by the scores. Could you do the version were favourable match-up have higher scores and unfavourable match-ups lower?

 

[zoofs]

i was about to make my own chart but i guess this freeu sub beat me to it

heres my opinions on your numbers:

- demo might be 5-5 so idk if thats your definitive variation for her
- pumped up might be 5-5
- kenshi doesn't win
- kitana most likely doesn't lose maybe 5.5 at worst depending on variation
- if beta changes stick then hellfire wins 6-4 most likely otherwise it might just be a semi difficult matchup thats even
- takeda probably has at least 2 variations that are favourable matchups for him
- stunt double is 5-5 but im assuming you have a-list as 6-4 in subs favour
- sub doesn't win against liu
- mileena im not comfortable with but i feel like 6-4 might be wrong
- dvorah might still be 7-3 but i guess 6-4 is good enough as a for sure number
- quan doesn't win
- goro doesn't win
- war god might be 5-5
- hqt definitely 7-3
- tremor definitely 7-3

i like the graphic but it leaves a lot to be discussed as im assuming you didn't want to put anything above a 6-4 in either losing or winning, not to mention its mostly just for one variation per char which means things aren't very definitive either

 

[llabslb]

I'll upload an updated version soon. It'll include variations.

 

[Lokheit]

I'd wait after XL to make matchup charts as they could become obsolete. Some characters with tools to deal with the klone but that are crappy characters overal will get buffed into decency while some S tier guys will get hit by the nerfbat. We don't even know the changes for GM or any other Subbie.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'd wait after XL to make matchup charts as they could become obsolete. Some characters with tools to deal with the klone but that are crappy characters overal will get buffed into decency while some S tier guys will get hit by the nerfbat. We don't even know the changes for GM or any other Subbie.

Well it could be updated of course

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Is it going to be all of their variations measured up against grandmaster, or just their best options. Like sub bodies sun and blood KK but war is probably even. We could wait till XL, im thinking some characters like tanya and tremor will get raped so we will see.

 

[llabslb]

i was about to make my own chart but i guess this freeu sub beat me to it

heres my opinions on your numbers:

- demo might be 5-5 so idk if thats your definitive variation for her
- pumped up might be 5-5
- kenshi doesn't win
- kitana most likely doesn't lose maybe 5.5 at worst depending on variation
- if beta changes stick then hellfire wins 6-4 most likely otherwise it might just be a semi difficult matchup thats even
- takeda probably has at least 2 variations that are favourable matchups for him
- stunt double is 5-5 but im assuming you have a-list as 6-4 in subs favour
- sub doesn't win against liu
- mileena im not comfortable with but i feel like 6-4 might be wrong
- dvorah might still be 7-3 but i guess 6-4 is good enough as a for sure number
- quan doesn't win
- goro doesn't win
- war god might be 5-5
- hqt definitely 7-3
- tremor definitely 7-3

i like the graphic but it leaves a lot to be discussed as im assuming you didn't want to put anything above a 6-4 in either losing or winning, not to mention its mostly just for one variation per char which means things aren't very definitive either

I made it sub losing to Liu and if you made a chart I would expect images of egg plants scattered around the chart. Please zoofs.

 

[llabslb]

Is it going to be all of their variations measured up against grandmaster, or just their best options. Like sub bodies sun and blood KK but war is probably even. We could wait till XL, im thinking some characters like tanya and tremor will get raped so we will see.

It'll be all of subs variations against all characters and their variations. For instance, how grandmaster will handle against variation A or how unbreakable would handle against variation B

 

[Dankster Morgan]

i was about to make my own chart but i guess this freeu sub beat me to it

heres my opinions on your numbers:

- demo might be 5-5 so idk if thats your definitive variation for her
- pumped up might be 5-5
- kenshi doesn't win
- kitana most likely doesn't lose maybe 5.5 at worst depending on variation
- if beta changes stick then hellfire wins 6-4 most likely otherwise it might just be a semi difficult matchup thats even
- takeda probably has at least 2 variations that are favourable matchups for him
- stunt double is 5-5 but im assuming you have a-list as 6-4 in subs favour
- sub doesn't win against liu
- mileena im not comfortable with but i feel like 6-4 might be wrong
- dvorah might still be 7-3 but i guess 6-4 is good enough as a for sure number
- quan doesn't win
- goro doesn't win
- war god might be 5-5
- hqt definitely 7-3
- tremor definitely 7-3

i like the graphic but it leaves a lot to be discussed as im assuming you didn't want to put anything above a 6-4 in either losing or winning, not to mention its mostly just for one variation per char which means things aren't very definitive either

Could you explain Quan a little bit? It seems like sub has no chance unless he corners him. I can definitely see D'Voah still being 7-3.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

It'll be all of subs variations against all characters and their variations. For instance, how grandmaster will handle against variation A or how unbreakable would handle against variation B

Nice. According to REO, Unbreakable has no winning matchups other than Unstoppable Jason.

 

[Lokheit]

Btw, something that I forgot to ask when the online beta came...

Do we know if B12ExKlone is still dependant of stance?

 

[Addhad]

ermac

 

[boba_buster]

Mos ermac is taken care of by cryo pretty easily

 

[Dankster Morgan]

The new mystic will get easier once we have practice mode.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I think scorpion is even or sub wins, Liu kang is even, kung Jin shaolin beats sub, D'Vorah is probably 3-7, goro is probably even, but great job! We should do variations too. Thanks for making the graphic it looks really nice.

Unbreakable is one of my side chars and I feel like scorpion esp ninj loses to unbreakable because I can parry his teleport and f4 and aura lets me block hellfire pressure without taking a ton of chip

 

[boba_buster]

Parry is too big a risk to rely on in any situation

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

Unbreakable is one of my side chars and I feel like scorpion esp ninj loses to unbreakable because I can parry his teleport and f4 and aura lets me block hellfire pressure without taking a ton of chip

At this state of time the parry is too risky to use, its not guaranteed to work. the best way to make it work is with a meter burned parry but even then you are wasting meter for it.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Unbreakable is one of my side chars and I feel like scorpion esp ninj loses to unbreakable because I can parry his teleport and f4 and aura lets me block hellfire pressure without taking a ton of chip

I wouldn't say that's worth losing the corner game. Scorpion has terrible armor and defense so after a F12 knockdown in the corner and a Klone out he's kinda boned. The Klone is just a safer and better tool to rely on than the parry which can be suicide. If unbreakable feels dominant you may just be way better than your opponent or they don't know the matchup since nobody uses it.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Although i want it buffed I look at it like it makes the opponent play a certain way. Whether its baiting me to parry, by jumping a lot or using a move that isnt effected by it (the worst), him respecting its possibility makes me narrow down what hes gonna do. Using it after block strings wont always work, but because ill risk putting it out there, people will let me get away with b12 into all sorts of junk because they wait a second hoping ill parry again. Any slow normal after a jump in like scorps f4 can be EX parried and pressure chars can be ex parried (he can generate a lot of meter keep in mind)

 

[llabslb]

This match up chart will be massive. If I do a full resolution image of the sub zero match up chart it'll be around 10564x615 and if I do a full resolution chart of the entire game it'll be around 10564x10564.