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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
That would absolutely kill the character. I doubt they would do that. Especially with all the other stupid shit in the game.
I don't think so. The normal conversions do good damage already, and breaking 50% meterless is ludacris.

I think that's a pretty pessimistic view. I wouldn't be surprised if Shatter damage was toned down some but I don't expect Shatter to be fundamentally changed. I think that tweet was very tongue in cheek as well.

Low clone toss seems to be useful if someone reads your clone toss and tries to low profile it.
Shatter damage was already toned down (in the beta). It doesn't effect his game much, thank goodness. As for opponents reading the toss, they can still poke SZ during his wind up to throw the clone.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
I don't think so. The normal conversions do good damage already, and breaking 50% meterless is ludacris..
that would kill the game for scrubs like me and thousands of casuals. He needs his 50% meterless damage in corner, his mid-screen damage is way less compared to others.

Even tournament players have trouble constantly landing 50% shatter combo, not even madzin can do constantly.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
If they adjusted the damage in beta i didn't even notice. That's how good his corner game still is.

That being said, beta is not March 1 build so we will have to see
 

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
I think if they removed the shatter you would already see it in the beta. :) That would make sense not a sudden removal without beta.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Has anyone messed with the clone overlapping hitbox "invincibility" vs. armored advancing specials? For example: SZ being invincible vs. Jax ex Dash Fist
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Iv seen it but could you go a little more in depth?
I'm wondering if we can tool around with the mechanic and understand it to the point where GM players can exploit it. This is how I suspect it works; once an attack launches and interacts with a hurt box (clone or SZ himself), any remaining hurt box becomes invalid/ invulnerable to the attack if both hit boxes overlap at consecutive frames as if tricking the attacks active frames into think it already struck that hurt box... Or some shit.

Example: SZ vs. Jax, where SZ f4 xx ex clone (dash forward) and Jax reversals ex dash fist. Fist hits clone on f5 and SZ's hurt box touches Fist active frames on f6, causing a moment of invulnerability. Now SZ can whiff punish an otherwise safe armored reversal.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I'm wondering if we can tool around with the mechanic and understand it to the point where GM players can exploit it. This is how I suspect it works; once an attack launches and interacts with a hurt box (clone or SZ himself), any remaining hurt box becomes invalid/ invulnerable to the attack if both hit boxes overlap at consecutive frames as if tricking the attacks active frames into think it already struck that hurt box... Or some shit.

Example: SZ vs. Jax, where SZ f4 xx ex clone (dash forward) and Jax reversals ex dash fist. Fist hits clone on f5 and SZ's hurt box touches Fist active frames on f6, causing a moment of invulnerability. Now SZ can whiff punish an otherwise safe armored reversal.
We would have to mess around with other reversals and see which ones are similar to it. It might just be a Jax thing but this is cool.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I've tested Jax ex fist, Johnny Cage ex shadow kick, Raiden ex bobalay and Sub-Zero ex slide so far. Similar results with all of these... I suspect Reptile, Jason, Kitana, Kung Jin, Kano all might be susceptible in one way or another. It's a thread to pull anyway.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I've tested Jax ex fist, Johnny Cage ex shadow kick, Raiden ex bobalay and Sub-Zero ex slide so far. Similar results with all of these... I suspect Reptile, Jason, Kitana, Kung Jin, Kano all might be susceptible in one way or another. It's a thread to pull anyway.
I was really suprised when it worked against cage. That's really cool and I feel like it will trip a lot of people out, not really knowing whats happening.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I was really suprised when it worked against cage. That's really cool and I feel like it will trip a lot of people out, not really knowing whats happening.
The thing about it this is finding a place to use it, which is why understanding it is so important. Right now, we basically know how to trigger this off f4 xx ex clone (I think f42 xx ex clone works occasionally as well). I don't think there are many opponents out there who would challenge that with armor, though.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I think he loses to Tremor, Predator, D'Vorah, Takeda(only in lasher), Kenshi(only balanced), Kung Jin(Shaolin) , and Quan Chi(Summoner). I think we could make this a pretty good rescource.