Breakthrough - A-List [Beta Closed] Lets talk about A-list as is during Beta

[The_Tile]

I assume you mean why the 113/f2 mixup isn't that good? Because it's easily fuzzy-guarded when fighting someone who keeps an eye out for it. People only get away with it nowadays if the opponent doesn't know the matchup. Again, 1 (f2) is more effective as it messes with their timing if they're expecting 113, as does staggering 11s into either 113 or f2, but not only are you still not guaranteed to open up a good opponent, but staggering allows them to armor through or backdash every time. Does everyone have the reactions to block the 'mixups' or to armor through the gaps? No, but I'm assuming we're speaking in terms of high-level play, where things like that are generally punished on a consistent basis if used too frequently.

While I do agree with most of what youve said so far, you saying Cage has no mixups and struggles to open people up just isn't true. He can stagger standing 1, 11, 12, 12 RC, 114, 114xxSKRC, 3xxSKRC, 33xxSKRC, 333xxSKRC, B3xxSKRC, B34xxSKRC or D4. All of which can be followed up with F2, D4, 113, more staggers, guaranteed blockstrings or a throw.

People who think it's difficult to open people up with Cage just aren't using all of his tools.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

While I do agree with most of what youve said so far, you saying Cage has no mixups and struggles to open people up just isn't true. He can stagger standing 1, 11, 12, 12 RC, 114, 114xxSKRC, 3xxSKRC, 33xxSKRC, 333xxSKRC, B3xxSKRC, B34xxSKRC or D4. All of which can be followed up with F2, D4, 113, more staggers, guaranteed blockstrings or a throw.

People who think it's difficult to open people up with Cage just aren't using all of his tools.

Oh, I'm not under the impression that Cage doesn't have mix-ups. A good JC will leave a lot of people scared to press buttons, since his stagger and pressure game is so strong. I was more talking about the basic 113/f2 mix-up, which a lot of beginning JC players rely on too often. It just isn't nearly as good as staggers into 113, f2 or grab. And it should go without saying how powerful his SKRCs are, since trying to press buttons during those is an easy way to lose a third of your life.

However, the opponent can still armor through his staggers if you use them too often and too predictably, but baiting those armor moves and punishing them introduces the mind game aspect of his pressure.

I'm not trying to downplay, and I apologize if it seemed like my posts said otherwise. Just for the sake of clarification, I seriously do believe A-List is going to be a top 5 contender if the other top tiers get nerfed as rumored. He's already top 10 in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses or limitations.

 

[Airvidal]

you can't just dismiss someone's complaint about their character possibly lacking(just speaking in general now, not about Lao), because of your personal belief

Fair enough, I might have sounded too harsh. Not my intention.

@Airvidal we should probably take this discussion to pms. If you want to post your response to my lastest post in here that's fine. I just feel like i'm invading a thread that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about lol.

You're right, we're talking Lao in a Cage thread lol

 

[Airvidal]

Cage is the best in the game!!!
Now attack me

 

[TotteryManx]

Because of course, if Xinok won against those unbeatable players the character must clearly be broken...it's IMPOSSIBLE that he outsmarted them and played just better.

lol

I never said the character was broken, so I'm not sure why you're implying I hinted it. Everyone is beatable, but he beat top players. 2 of which hold EVO medals for MKX. Obviously he outplayed them, but his character gave him the tools and options to do that. I don't see him in here downplaying.

 

[Dja_Homies]

Me and @EGP Awesomo have discussed this and we both think that fair changes to a list would be getting rid of all his jails besides 333 and s4(114 staying is debatable) with the f3 jails removed it adds mind games since the opponent will be more armor happy. So the cancels that jail should be around +5ish where they can armor but can't poke back. You mind adding some more awesomo?

 

[Asodimazze]

Me and @EGP Awesomo have discussed this and we both think that fair changes to a list would be getting rid of all his jails besides 333 and s4(114 staying is debatable) with the f3 jails removed it adds mind games since the opponent will be more armor happy. So the cancels that jail should be around +5ish where they can armor but can't poke back. You mind adding some more awesomo?

Take away the jails from all the other stamina characters too, while you're at it.
Lol still no idea why do u guys want to nerf A-List so much.

He is not a problem, never won anything, doesn't dominate in any scene.
You guys freak out without any reason

 

[The Dragon Chief]

I never said the character was broken, so I'm not sure why you're implying I hinted it. Everyone is beatable, but he beat top players. 2 of which hold EVO medals for MKX. Obviously he outplayed them, but his character gave him the tools and options to do that. I don't see him in here downplaying.

I know it was a slight slip of the tongue but you said EVO MKX Champions when there has only been one EVO including MKX and the winner was Sonic Fox. A-List is not broken seeing as how you can get out of his pressure by using your brain but he is still super tricky and is a big contender in his current beta state.

 

[SaltFace NS]

Johnny is probably gonna have a hard time dealing with zoning with the update to breakers. You can zone him out all day, build meter and as soon as he touches you just break and make him work his way back in without stamina. Saltface did this to me with his mileena and it made me realize how big of a change the breaker update is.

You gonna walk today

 

[kelevra]

Oh jeez. Is it this time of the month again?
He is the only character that can cancel twice in a combo so its obvious that he is built around the whole mechanic.
So shouldnt he actually excell at that one thing?

 

[TotteryManx]

I know it was a slight slip of the tongue but you said EVO MKX Champions when there has only been one EVO including MKX and the winner was Sonic Fox. A-List is not broken seeing as how you can get out of his pressure by using your brain but he is still super tricky and is a big contender in his current beta state.

It wasn't a slip of the tongue. Zyphox and Honeybee both have medals for placing top 8 at EVO. I didn't say the winner of EVO. If you place top 8 you receive a medal.

 

[ismael4790]

Oh jeez. Is it this time of the month again?
He is the only character that can cancel twice in a combo so its obvious that he is built around the whole mechanic.
So shouldnt he actually excell at that one thing?

Tell that to Fisticuffs. He also excelled in only one thing, he was built around 1 string and got destroyed xD

 

[kelevra]

Tell that to Fisticuffs. He also excelled in only one thing xD

Oh snap dude. Totally forgot that variation exists ;D

 

[Asodimazze]

Tell that to Fisticuffs. He also excelled in only one thing, he was built around 1 string and got destroyed xD

Pray 4 buffs :'(

 

[ismael4790]

Oh snap dude. Totally forgot that variation exists ;D

Don't blame you, even nrs did xD

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Don't blame you, even nrs did xD

rip in peace Fisticuffs (2015-2015). May he Speedbag to his heart's content on the other side.

Spoiler

Seriously, NRS. The f@ck were you thinking?

 

[ismael4790]

rip in peace Fisticuffs (2015-2015). May he Speedbag to his heart's content on the other side.

Spoiler

Seriously, NRS. The f@ck were you thinking?

xDDDD

In my dreams he will resurrect in march 1 and be top10 character haha.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

JC clearly has mix-ups, however, I just gotta say - if you are someone who thinks D4 is a low combo starter, then you are not playing at a high enough level to constantly be obnoxious with your homebrew ass opinions all the time

I do home brew and my beer is delicious. Who actually thinks d4 is a combo starter? It does lead to 15% chip/mixups.

Take away the jails from all the other stamina characters too, while you're at it.
Lol still no idea why do u guys want to nerf A-List so much.

He is not a problem, never won anything, doesn't dominate in any scene.
You guys freak out without any reason

I feel like I'm reading the Liu forums from a few weeks ago. I'm not suggesting nerfs but can we please call a spade a spade? Some of you are coming around but others are still struggling.

 

[DrFolmer]

I think people mostly struggle with his meter building. That is IMO the only stupid thing about Cage. It's not really the plus frames, a lot of the cast have absurd plus frames, but most of them spend meter to aquire them - whereas Johnny gets it for 'free' (stamina is also a ressource in a sense). Even when you make a correct read on Johnny he usually has a lot of meter for breakers or armor when he gets knocked down.

After playing a good DF Liu Kang I kinda realized how overwhelming the plus frames can be since Liu will always have breaker to go neutral and outzone me anyway. I'm not saying Johnny should be unable to build meter after cancels, but I'd rather want reduced meter building (like a 50 % reduction or some shit) than losing all the jailing stuff. The staggers vs jailing is our mixup game and it needs to stay. If people don't have any jails to fear, our staggers will be shiiit.

People still need to stfu about Cage being overpowered. We got top players who can't fuzzy a 11, f2 / 113 'mixup'. People have to grind out the matchup, get used to the 12(1) rc into f2 because for some reason people block low after seeing 12 when there's absolutely no reason to. I'm not saying it's easy since 12 is a fast string but that's training for you. I can't even block my own character but I have definitely played against people who can block very well against my A-list. If you can't handle Cage it's on you for the most part breh

 

[Bilbo11]

so after all that, does any one know of any other changes to JC in the beta?

 

[dennycascade]

You gonna walk today

Lol I'll get that runback when mkxl comes! Accept my psn friend req bruh!

 

[EGP Awesomo]

I feel like the "he hasnt won anything" argument is getting really old. mk9 sonya "didnt win anything" it took martian awhile before he "won anything" you guys need to get your shit together

 

[M.D.]

Any player who actually plays Cage will never sustain all this "pressure" nonsense from the last 2-3 pages of this thread, since he will be crumpled in the corner of the room shivering from all the everySINGLEFREAKINTIME getting armored the fuck out of his pressure into 40% by the other top 5 wonders of this game.

 

[aieches]

I do home brew and my beer is delicious. Who actually thinks d4 is a combo starter? It does lead to 15% chip/mixups.

I feel like I'm reading the Liu forums from a few weeks ago. I'm not suggesting nerfs but can we please call a spade a spade? Some of you are coming around but others are still struggling.

we made need to have a talk sir.. this is something im thinking about getting into .


exactly

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

we made need to have a talk sir.. this is something im thinking about getting into .


exactly

I love to talk beer. Any time man. Hit me up in Twitter. @Pig Of The Hut tasted my new beer...tell them what you thought.

Belgian Triple
9.5%
Name: Tickle Fight
Profile: sweet, lightly bitter, banana, brown sugar, cinnamon.
Color: dark and rich