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Breakthrough - Kung Lao [EO Beta Closed] Kung Lao Beta Changes Discussion

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jokey77

Character Loyalist
Is this the whole Quan thing again, just in the shape of a blond chewing bubble gum?

Quan loses frames, still has 50/50s, vortex, pseudo unblockables, zoning.

Lao loses frames, that's his offense. He has nothing else besides pressure to open people up.

Now with this.

Cassie loses armor, her EX flipkick is still safe midscreen and somewhat difficult to punish in the corner. Can still use it to make 50/50s safe.

Lao loses armor, now there's no point in the move being EX, because it's 100% punishable and will get clowned on by long ranged jump moves, just like normal spin does.


Different characters, different moves, yeah.
I think that people widely agree on ex-spin being overpowered right now. Because of the huge range PLUS the armor it technically beats any other attack (apart from Goro's punchwalk maybe).

If you just slightly reduce the range and remove the armor, the tool will become just more fair. Kung Lao still has the fastest punishing-tool in the game. Yet he has to think more before using it defensivly. This will just make the character more honest. It is not like I would demand to add start-up frames or so...

Thus:

REMOVE ARMOR ON EX-SPIN AND KEEP ALL OTHER CHANGES. THEN HE SHOULD BE FINE!!!!
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Scaling on 44 is not noticeable. B2 hat spin 44 b321 spin, j3d4 21 is 35% down from 36%, f23 hat spin , 44 b321 j3d4 21 is 37% meterless, down from 38%, Lao is still stupid good. Also, if they don't have meter, you can run up and do 11212 to jail after ex hat but it has to be just frame. D4 and f2 are still good, f2 catches backdash and they can't poke out. Just my two cents from testing. Cheers
you dont jail a 112124 at +7. you can crouch poke. fact.

The people who think EX spin is overpowered, probably also think that Kung Lao has 50/50s and a vortex.
or they probably jump at him when he has a bar
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I think that people widely agree on ex-spin being overpowered right now. Because of the huge range PLUS the armor it technically beats any other attack (apart from Goro's punchwalk maybe).
Isn't this what an armored move is supposed to do?
 

Wigy

There it is...
Also folks complaining that the j2 nerf hurts his other variations. It was broken AF i dont care if it hurts, no character should have that
 

Espio

Kokomo
I think that people widely agree on ex-spin being overpowered right now. Because of the huge range PLUS the armor it technically beats any other attack (apart from Goro's punchwalk maybe).

If you just slightly reduce the range and remove the armor, the tool will become just more fair. Kung Lao still has the fastest punishing-tool in the game. Yet he has to think more before using it defensivly. This will just make the character more honest. It is not like I would demand to add start-up frames or so...

Thus:

REMOVE ARMOR ON EX-SPIN AND KEEP ALL OTHER CHANGES. THEN HE SHOULD BE FINE!!!!
I am to assume this is a bad troll, but if not here goes. People might widely agree that ex spin is very good, but I doubt and certainly hope that it's not widely considered OP. It's full combo punishable on block. You shouldn't be trying to beat it out anyway. If you scout it you should be baiting so you can blow him up hard. There is nothing unfair about the move in its current form especially with it sucking people in on block now as well. You know you're being ridiculous when I'm defending Lao lol.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Update:

Tele grab will connect on hit example: j2xxtele 1 for 15%

Also interactions that jailed are no longer possible it will whiff on block.
 
This is how they should've balanced Kung Lao (Tempest):
- J2 range reduced, All characters as a matter of fact with a jump in that had that kind of range needed to be normalized
- Regular hat spin -7 (from -3) this way Kung Lao can't jump out YOLO divekick if you try to poke or do anything else other than a standing fast high or mid, he won't be able to down 4 your strings afterwards and they can even go with an OH/Low after blocking a regular hat spin if it's fast enough. It will be easier to duck or react to throws in this netcode and EX hat spin being +12 at least was necessary for KL. That's like the lowest, any lower and it's not a better choice than regular hat spin (-3). Kung Lao only way of opening people up was either by throwing their opponent (Which doesn't guaranteed armor breaking afterwards BTW) or the mind game he had with ex hat spin.
- Damage was fine, I remember when it did 51% for 1 bar. I didn't even play the character back then but that was a bit too much. Now he does like around 43% 1 bar (Not the Beta) for the same 2 frame link combo and it's getting nerfed again? like I mean you might as well just cut the damage in half so they don't have to lower the damage in every patch, it seems like an endless routine that never stop :confused:
- I honestly don't care if the ex spin pull my opponent in, this is just making it easier for the ones who hasn't lab KL for 2 mins. It's actually just as easy if not easier to punish on whiff than it's when it pull you in, apparently YOMI Reo doesn't know the tornado goes away after the first few frames no but seriously I forgot the last time someone got away with an ex spin unpunished vs me in the shit netcode btw, come on Reo I was like what the hell is Reo thinking? He's like basically leaving the character the same in the patch wishes thread he made lol. Some of you who has mirrored me may probably know that I'm not lying when I say you can punish that shit even from full screen :)
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
This is how they should've balanced Kung Lao (Tempest):
- J2 range reduced, All characters as a matter of fact with a jump in that had that kind of range needed to be normalized
- Regular hat spin -7 (from -3) this way Kung Lao can't jump out YOLO divekick if you try to poke or do anything else other than a standing fast high or mid, he won't be able to down 4 your strings afterwards and they can even go with an OH/Low after blocking a regular hat spin if it's fast enough. It will be easier to duck or react to throws in this netcode and EX hat spin being +12 at least was necessary for KL. That's like the lowest, any lower and it's not a better choice than regular hat spin (-3). Kung Lao only way of opening people up was either by throwing their opponent (Which doesn't guaranteed armor breaking afterwards BTW) or the mind game he had with ex hat spin.
- Damage was fine, I remember when it did 51% for 1 bar. I didn't even play the character back then but that was a bit too much. Now he does like around 43% 1 bar (Not the Beta) for the same 2 frame link combo and it's getting nerfed again? like I mean you might as well just cut the damage in half so they don't have to lower the damage in every patch, it seems like an endless routine that never stop :confused:
- I honestly don't care if the ex spin pull my opponent in, this is just making it easier for the ones who hasn't lab KL for 2 mins. It's actually just as easy if not easier to punish on whiff than it's when it pull you in, apparently YOMI Reo doesn't know the tornado goes away after the first few frames no but seriously I forgot the last time someone got away with an ex spin unpunished vs me in the shit netcode btw, come on Reo I was like what the hell is Reo thinking? He's like basically leaving the character the same in the patch wishes thread he made lol. Some of you who has mirrored me may probably know that I'm not lying when I say you can punish that shit even from full screen :)
regular hat -7? stahp, -3 it's not my turn. everything i do after it gets beaten by every down poke or fast enough mids
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
EX spin is fine now. FFS, it sucks you in now lol, and as a fast armor move with only one hit, it has the issue of being easily beaten out by slower armor attacks. I don't understand why it's a problem.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Isn't this what an armored move is supposed to do?
You are trolling me, right?

Armorbreaking (= double-hitting) attacks don't work on Kung Lao, while they work on everyone else. This is why Summoner Quan Chi has an even harder time when fighting Kung Lao e.g.! Overhead/low Setups dont work on him...

Besides when it comes to armor move vs armor move, Kung Lao almost always wins.

Removing the armor and slightly reducing the range feels like a reasonable nerf.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
I think that people widely agree on ex-spin being overpowered right now. Because of the huge range PLUS the armor it technically beats any other attack (apart from Goro's punchwalk maybe).

If you just slightly reduce the range and remove the armor, the tool will become just more fair. Kung Lao still has the fastest punishing-tool in the game. Yet he has to think more before using it defensivly. This will just make the character more honest. It is not like I would demand to add start-up frames or so...

Thus:

REMOVE ARMOR ON EX-SPIN AND KEEP ALL OTHER CHANGES. THEN HE SHOULD BE FINE!!!!
What Kung Lao is getting any mileage off of the ex spin lol? That's not a game winning move by a long shot, it's a move designed to stop people with bad fundamentals who like to jump around all day.

By your logic, Mileenas ball roll, Goro PW, Jax pumped up ex gotcha (also 7f), and so on are all OP.

If you're spinning in neutral or a lot of the time through people's pressure, then you're using the move 'wrong'.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
You are trolling me, right?

Armorbreaking (= double-hitting) attacks don't work on Kung Lao, while they work on everyone else. This is why Summoner Quan Chi has an even harder time when fighting Kung Lao e.g.! Overhead/low Setups dont work on him...

Besides when it comes to armor move vs armor move, Kung Lao almost always wins.

Removing the armor and slightly reducing the range feels like a reasonable nerf.
You must be trolling me son, EX Spin can still be armor broken by plenty of things.

If you're talking about how you can't armor break it with a standard string, well, that goes for pretty much any armored move 12 frames or faster, and you'll pretty much need a move/setup that's DESIGNED to armor break to do it. Ever armor broke Warlock's EX scoop before? No? Didn't think so.

And please, if a Lao player tries to armor through Quan's low bat/B2 setups, he's gonna get sliced up faster than an onion in Subway. Heck, if he's even able to armor at all, you're not setting it up properly. NOBODY can armor out of Summoner's vortex.

In fact, the fact that you're even entertaining the above example being a thing disqualifies your opinion. Get out of here.
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
You are trolling me, right?

Armorbreaking (= double-hitting) attacks don't work on Kung Lao, while they work on everyone else. This is why Summoner Quan Chi has an even harder time when fighting Kung Lao e.g.! Overhead/low Setups dont work on him...

Besides when it comes to armor move vs armor move, Kung Lao almost always wins.

Removing the armor and slightly reducing the range feels like a reasonable nerf.
U may actually be the first person who things removing ex spins armor is reasonable and also feels that pre beta lao wasnt honest
 
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