Breakthrough - Dragons Fire a lesson to be learnt in frame data lol

[Hanzer0]

Looks like lessons were learned in frame data, but by the big dog himself @Tom Brady.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

@Tom Brady what was the conclusion as to why s1 into s1 beats spin? Dizzy says spin comes out in 7 frames not 6,

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

I got tagged quoted in a few posts but I will just say here what is correct and incorrect in this post as it covers the questions other people were asking too.

• It costs 1 frame to unblock before you can start an attack. This is false

This is literally just made up and has no basis from a frame data standpoint. For example, Liu Kang's b1 is 9f start up. Hits on frame 10 at the earliest when done in neutral. Punishes moves that are -10 on block. This would not be possible if there was any unblocking penalty.

• @GGA Dizzy, your first post mentions that Liu Kang's b1 comes out on the 10th frame whereas Lao's spin comes out "in 7 frames." Unless mkxframedata is incorrect, Lao's spin has 7 start up frames, which means it will always come out on frame 8. Startup vs execution frames in this case are irrelevant because both fighters are subject to the same game mechanics.

Reversals hit 1 frame earlier than normals. If you do a Spin in neutral with Kung Lao it will hit in 8 frames, however you can punish moves that are -7 on block with spin due to a special property of reversals that removes 1 frame of blockstun.

In summary, there no "unblocking penalty". This is a bad way of thinking because it makes it sound like moves come out slower when done out of block, which is not the case. However, you can think of reversals getting a bonus. I believe that will help you get the full picture of whats going on in regards to the frame data.


Semi related, since @xarakamaka brought it up, I've considered making a thread regarding the way frame data works in the game, with examples and whatnot, but I haven't got around to it. I know it'd probably help alot but I don't want to half-ass it.

Please can this thread be made so the community doesn't come in here for it? It would help lots , thanks dude!

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

@Tom Brady what was the conclusion as to why s1 into s1 beats spin? Dizzy says spin comes out in 7 frames not 6,

In neutral, Spin comes out in 8th frame, and as a reversal, it comes out in 7th frame.

 

[omooba]

@Tom Brady

===EDIT===
I posted these on page 3 but thought that they were good enough to warrant firing them in this post so people could see my counter-evidence to this claim.

Feel free to explain to me if I'm wrong, I find this stuff interesting and want to know as much as anyone lol.

i tried testing this myself and i saw that after flying kick when i go into b1, 8frame down poke was beating it. help me understand. i don't know what frames have been universally accepted so yeah.

 

[Scott The Scot]

i tried testing this myself and i saw that after flying kick when i go into b1, 8frame down poke was beating it. help me understand. i don't know what frames have been universally accepted so yeah.

It's debunked that B1 is indeed 9 frames. If you're getting a different result then you're not executing everything to the frame. Try punishing something that's -10 with B1, that's the guarentee.

 

[omooba]

It's debunked that B1 is indeed 9 frames. If you're getting a different result then you're not executing everything to the frame. Try punishing something that's -10 with B1, that's the guarentee.

oh i'm not saying it's not 9 frames. i'm 100% it is cus i already did what you said to do. what i'm saying is ex kick isn't plus 2. you try hitting either b1 or d1 after it against johnny cage's 8 frame poke.
also i use a turbo button cus i don't trust my inputs