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Breakthrough - Dragons Fire a lesson to be learnt in frame data lol

Wigy

There it is...
What's wrong with having to block b1 after an enhanced bicycle kick?
This is just a frame trap, which many characters have, and is completely normal in fighting games.
Liu's pressure ends after a blocked b1/b12. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
I think the issue is that it actually builds meter lol. All the rest of the cast have to spend bar or can only loop once or twice.

Also im sure I heard b12 is +4-5 on exfbc
If you read my post easlier this could lead to some dumb shit if its true.
 
I think the issue is that it actually builds meter lol. All the rest of the cast have to spend bar or can only loop once or twice.

Also im sure I heard b12 is +4-5 on exfbc
If you read my post easlier this could lead to some dumb shit if its true.
I understand what you're saying.
Yes, if Liu Kang corners you with full stamina and 3 bars then dumb shit will happen, as would with many other characters.
Even though he builds bar, he's wasting both meter and stamina with the pressure you described, which would not allow him to sustain it indefinitely.
With all that being said, whether this amount of pressure is fair or not compared to the rest of the cast is an entirely different discussion :DOGE.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I understand what you're saying.
Yes, if Liu Kang corners you with full stamina and 3 bars then dumb shit will happen, as would with many other characters.
Even though he builds bar, he's wasting both meter and stamina with the pressure you described, which would not allow him to sustain it indefinitely.
With all that being said, whether this amount of pressure is fair or not compared to the rest of the cast is an entirely different discussion :DOGE.
You're going to be eating around 30% of unavoidable pressure in that setup I described If ex fbc off b12 is +4 which I need to confirm with some liu main lol, which is damn stupid considering once you respect it he can grab you at any time replenishing his stamina and knockdown vs liu is death cause b12.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
I think the issue is that it actually builds meter lol. All the rest of the cast have to spend bar or can only loop once or twice.

Also im sure I heard b12 is +4-5 on exfbc
If you read my post easlier this could lead to some dumb shit if its true.
Yeh it was me that found this tech , it is plus 4 or 5 yeh . But u can't do that loop you said in previous post , u don't have the stamina in time . It will beep beep you

@GGA Dizzy thanks for your help I'm a little unclear on a couple things though but too tired at the moment . Do you think you could ever make a thread about the frame data ? Etc . I know probably 80% of the community doesn't know what's going on still. I think it would clear and REALLY help the community of you could ever find time for this. Do you think you could do it? I'll message more on Wednesday when I'm not working, thanks dude
 

DrManhattan

Mortal
Down playing at its best. This has been thoroughly tested. B1 is 9 frames. Maybe xaraka cannot do frame perfect b1s or he mashes it?

Lui Block info a lot of characters. Mix up his pressure string with staggers and throws... It insane.

Also if lui mb into the overhead kick it blows up all attempts at counter poking and launches.

Rush down scrubs and their down playing
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
This is not backed up by frame data or any examples I've found. I've looked into this extensively.



That is the problem with your test; normals and specials are different when reversals are involved. Spin is 7 frames, when is done as a reversal it hits in 7 frames. However a 7 frame d1 will hit on frame 8. If spin is not trading that does not mean anything. Reversals remove one frame of blockstun as a system mechanic of the game.

Of course Liu Kang's b1 hits on frame 10, it has 9 frames of startup then it's active frames begin. Just like Kung Jin's 7f startup D1 hits on frame 8. That is how the frame data is listed for this game. It's the old-school style of frame data, where startup is listed seperately from the first active frame. (This is different than @Somberness MK9 frame data for example)
The day you were born will forever be remembered as the greatest day because you've Slayed the downplaying Lewis Kangers
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
By any measure, risking a full combo for a chance to trade a poke out of a infinite... Doesn't seem quite right on paper. No liu expert though.
Not an infinite. If he does meterburn bicycle kick into b1, thats more of a frame trap. Liu is not plus after b1 or b12. Also even if he run cancels off of b12, you can poke or armor to get out.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
This thread is the best attempt yet to make Kang sound not top 5

I applaud the effort

But read Entire thread like this

What is wrong with people , I never intended that AT ALL LOL. Oh my god dude, it's what I believed to be true and will yet again test it until I get the frame perfect b1. You can see how I got mistaken from my examples, I thought it was a breakthrough and I was the first person to call him top 5 in the entire community dude, I'm not a down player . I'm one of the only Liu kangs who agrees for him to be nerfed lol! So don't say that :/ , I don't mean kill his cancels but make FK MB into 0 on block I think would make it fair. I sir am NO downplayer so just don't:)
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
How is he downplaying? He thought it was 10f, dizzy and other liu kang users proved it was 9f and said certain characters can ONLY escape if they are frame perfect which is hard as heck. Boy that word gets tossed every so freely these days. Nobody is saying liu is bad or talking down on what he can do.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
PIG OF THE HUT the most salty mkx player, he's always so angry with his life lol and at people, dude needs to chill sometimes , talks shit a lot of time
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
What is wrong with people , I never intended that AT ALL LOL. Oh my god dude, it's what I believed to be true and will yet again test it until I get the frame perfect b1. You can see how I got mistaken from my examples, I thought it was a breakthrough and I was the first person to call him top 5 in the entire community dude, I'm not a down player . I'm one of the only Liu kangs who agrees for him to be nerfed lol! So don't say that :/ , I don't mean kill his cancels but make FK MB into 0 on block I think would make it fair. I sir am NO downplayer so just don't:)
One day I'll be able to make a joke without u getting mad w me

Regardless forever <3
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I'll learn , but yeh delete the thread someone and I apologise
I don't think threads like this should disappear but maybe possibly rename it w "thread tools"

It's actually better for this to be kept so others can learn from it

Really good posts in here explaining why this is debunked
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
I don't think threads like this should disappear but maybe possibly rename it w "thread tools"

It's actually better for this to be kept so others can learn from it

Really good posts in here explaining why this is debunked
I feel that we need a thread explaining what's going on , not having to go through all these pages , I renamed thread . Dizzy knows his stuff , I understood mk9 frame data , but all I gathered from mkx is that every move is actually a frame slower than what it actually says due to the block stun? I think 80% or more don't get it in this game , I would love a thread that everyone could look at