General/Other - Sonya Blade Sonya General Discussion Thread

[Ninequads93]

Tag me too youph!

 

[JerQ_Q]

No1 anymore plays or lab CO variation?

 

[Ayase Chihaya]

No1 anymore plays or lab CO variation?

What? Everyone plays CO lol.

 

[Tony at Home]

Alright a few things:

1. Did you guys know you can convert off of F4 and non-SF B2 in the corner with a D3? If you didn't then you do now
2. Did you guys know B332 has a gap in it from max range? Wtf!?!?!?
3. I'm currently testing all the Special Forces cancel data on hit and block for call drone and park drone which will take me a while but I'll tag most of you. If any of you definitely want to be tagged then let me know just in case I don't get you.

1.

2. Didn't know, but then again, I'm more worried that it will just whiff as it still does from time to time.

3. There appears to be a difference in how + shotgun blast is on block in different strings based on distance. This is super weird since the projectile doesn't appear to have travel time, so I'm guessing either
A) The hitbox is segmented and has multiple on block values.
B) The drone fires asynchronously from the activation, that is, the time between Sonya "checking twitter" and the drone firing differs based on the move it was canceled from.

I'll have to do a frame-step-test but I think B is a significant possibility

 

[JerQ_Q]

Was just wondering cos there havent been any talking at CO looooong time.. and most of the tournament plays have been demo too. Aaaaand happened to read these forums for first time

 

[Youphemism]

1.

2. Didn't know, but then again, I'm more worried that it will just whiff as it still does from time to time.

3. There appears to be a difference in how + shotgun blast is on block in different strings based on distance. This is super weird since the projectile doesn't appear to have travel time, so I'm guessing either
A) The hitbox is segmented and has multiple on block values.
B) The drone fires asynchronously from the activation, that is, the time between Sonya "checking twitter" and the drone firing differs based on the move it was canceled from.

I'll have to do a frame-step-test but I think B is a significant possibility

Uh I'm not testing strings into shotgun lol, just into drone call and park on hit and on block

 

[jmt]

Was just wondering cos there havent been any talking at CO looooong time.. and most of the tournament plays have been demo too. Aaaaand happened to read these forums for first time

We all play CO, but most of us put that behind us to learn demo and SF.

 

[Ninequads93]

Just a few things to note for ppl picking up the character

121, or 12 does not combo into kamikaze ( unless your in the corner I believe it works I'll double check right now)

11 does so fastest punish is 11 low kami when drone is available

F2 low kami also does not combo unless really close to the corner but regular kami does but hard to convert from unless close to the corner as well

B3 low kami works but b1 doesn't which doesn't matter since you can just do b14 low kami

If you end a combo with 213 homing missile you can blow up armor regardless if they tech roll or not with b33 I'll post a video soon

 

[Ninequads93]

Cool looking double HM combo

Anti wake-up setup

 

[Dedlock]

Was just wondering cos there havent been any talking at CO looooong time.. and most of the tournament plays have been demo too. Aaaaand happened to read these forums for first time

I play CO religiously, i recognize in terms of damage and combos its pretty much tapped out, in fact If there is something I would like to discuss about CO it would be some changes to Military Stance, Sonya;s specials, damage scale, combo cancel properties and launch properties of some of normals . That would really resuscitate Covert Ops and give players more room for creativity and bonus benefit Sonya in general.

As for tournament, CO's limited damage potential. general unsafe setups, and sub par zoning makes this variation not very popular in tournaments. Sonya in general is not very popular as she has a higher than avg risk/reward ratio. I mean why play CO Sonya when Kobu Jutsu Tanya has safe 50/50, mobility (teleports), air control , a plethora of specials and zoning tools?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I play CO religiously, i recognize in terms of damage and combos its pretty much tapped out, in fact If there is something I would like to discuss about CO it would be some changes to Military Stance, Sonya;s specials, damage scale, combo cancel properties and launch properties of some of normals . That would really resuscitate Covert Ops and give players more room for creativity and bonus benefit Sonya in general.

As for tournament, CO's limited damage potential. general unsafe setups, and sub par zoning makes this variation not very popular in tournaments. Sonya in general is not very popular as she has a higher than avg risk/reward ratio. I mean why play CO Sonya when Kobu Jutsu Tanya has safe 50/50, mobility (teleports), air control , a plethora of specials and zoning tools?

Kobu has a safe 50/50 now?

CO Sonya has one of the best corner games going. Her mix-ups are entirely safe if she cancels MS so she DOES have a safe 50/50, which Tanya absolutely does not. She is a very strong character even if she doesn't have much ways to MB for extra damage, she makes up for it with extra ways in? I personally think CO Sonya is in a real good place. They could make her projectile slightly less basura tho, it's not like she can do anything at that range anyway. Although maybe it's intended, but I think MB projectile should be a bit more improved for hit box and chip, think Cassie

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Is she safe if she cancels MS? I didn't think that was an actually safe option, and if the enemy has an armor move that beats the double hit of cartwheel, I think they can generally assume armoring out. I don't think either of Sonya's general strings into MS (b14 or b332) has enough block stun to cover the 9 frames of active MS animation.

At least I haven't had much luck with this (and I've tried incorporating it). Going to go home and test it vs slides/spin.

I've also had considerable issues getting the timing on the cancels. It's not cancellable for a few frames (I think 9) and I end up spamming 2 to cancel this and half the time I end up sitting there like a goon in MS or actually doing her standing 2 (T-rex arm move). Even when it comes out 'crisply' it feels like there's a long delay on it and it's not even close to +frames

 

[errormacro7]

Is she safe if she cancels MS? I didn't think that was an actually safe option, and if the enemy has an armor move that beats the double hit of cartwheel, I think they can generally assume armoring out. I don't think either of Sonya's general strings into MS (b14 or b332) has enough block stun to cover the 9 frames of active MS animation.

At least I haven't had much luck with this (and I've tried incorporating it). Going to go home and test it vs slides/spin.

Yes, it's safe. Blocking 6f reversals can be hard af, it requires practice, but it's possible.

 

[errormacro7]

Another thing, she can also make her 50/50 safe with her EX projectile. It's -5 on block. It doesn't have the mind game that MS cancel has, but it's useful in her other variations. This is already known I guess. lol

 

[Dedlock]

Kobu has a safe 50/50 now?

CO Sonya has one of the best corner games going. Her mix-ups are entirely safe if she cancels MS so she DOES have a safe 50/50, which Tanya absolutely does not. She is a very strong character even if she doesn't have much ways to MB for extra damage, she makes up for it with extra ways in? I personally think CO Sonya is in a real good place. They could make her projectile slightly less basura tho, it's not like she can do anything at that range anyway. Although maybe it's intended, but I think MB projectile should be a bit more improved for hit box and chip, think Cassie

First of all I don't consider ms a 50/50, because of how unsafe it is which limits it's use to certain circumstances.

Ms 4(the overhead) is exclusively to used in strings with guaranteed cancel frames, ie it comes out only if I catch you in a combo string serving as a combo extender, otherwise it ain't being used, whipping out MS4 as a regular 50/50 move on its own is suicide and will most likely lead to death.

So my advice for people who have trouble with Sonya's Ms and believe it's a powerful 50/50 tool, if you don't Want to armour through it ( Ms doesn't have ex properties), just low block, because MS4 at 22+ frames is too slow and can easily be punished on block or interrupted before the movie hits with a quick uppercut or special move. No armour required.

Ms3(the low), which is punishable on block, if you're really quick you can also back jump/dash and give Sonya hell.

Sonya's Ms 2 alleged "safe"cancel is not really safe as your only option is too block if you perform it. And your opponent should naturally throw you or react to your Block as usual.

Tanya Kobu Jutsu on the other hand has a safe jailing string that is plus on block or not punishable, and can be cancelled into a low or overhead special move that has ex properties like armour and launch . Come on man that is a true 50/50.

I play Sonya covert ops religiously and I disagree with Anybody who says covert ops Sonya's military stance is a safe dream 50/50 machine, because it isn't safe and the overhead is not effective enough for it to be a decent 50/50. At best it catches inexperienced players off guard.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

First of all I don't consider ms a 50/50, because of how unsafe it is which limits it's use to certain circumstances.[...]
Tanya Kobu Jutsu on the other hand has a safe jailing string that is plus on block or not punishable, and can be cancelled into a low or overhead special move that has ex properties like armour and launch . Come on man that is a true 50/50.

So you don't consider MS a 50/50 because it is too unsafe at -22/-18 for the Low/OH respectively that leads into a combo off one option midscreen and combos off both both options in the corner?
But you do however consider Tanya's Drillkick/Flipkick a 50/50 AND safe, even though it is -36/-25 respectively, and only one option leads to combo anywhere on screen, and requires meter to do so?


Really bro? Really?

If Tanyas is a 50/50 it's the worst 50/50 in the game, even more unsafe than Ermac with absolutely no comparitive returns, on the haracter that literally needs it the least in the game as she's built around turning every touch on block into her Rekka....

Sonya's Ms 2 alleged "safe"cancel is not really safe as your only option is too block if you perform it. And your opponent should naturally throw you or react to your Block as usual.

Then you have a different definition for safe, than everyone else in the FGC does. Being negative does not equal unsafe. Also you are straight wrong that your only option is to block, I have no trouble armouring through a reversal afterwards, also if your opponent is throwing you and you neutral duck hell you can uppercut that shit on reaction with sonyas uppercut. This is also a super hard-read for them, because if you don't cancel MS, the throw reversal attempt gets them combos, you can't react to the MS cancel. I imagine if you learn the timings you can probably backdash as well, this isn't my secondary anymore though so I'm not nailing the timing on it, but I know with good timing you are at most -6, so even with Sonyas crappy backdash you should be able to BD reversal throw at 10f.




Does anyone know the frames from an MS cancel off both openers?

 

[Dedlock]

So you don't consider MS a 50/50 because it is too unsafe at -22/-18 for the Low/OH respectively that leads into a combo off one option midscreen and combos off both both options in the corner?
But you do however consider Tanya's Drillkick/Flipkick a 50/50 AND safe, even though it is -36/-25 respectively, and only one option leads to combo anywhere on screen, and requires meter to do so?

No, because anybody that gets caught with MS4 midscreen/ the corner in a 50/50 situation must have very slow reflexes and has no fight experience against Sonya in the game.

As I mentioned in my post MS4 is only used in strings that guarantees its cancel success otherwise it's garbage. It's use is primarily as a combo juggle extender not as a 50/50 launcher.

Tanya has a safe mashable string that jails and if not cancelled into is Safe, unlike ms 2 leaving you in a must block situation. However, to mix it up Tanya can cancel into her 50/50 armored overhead /low ex specials, that rightly leaves her punishable if guessed correctly.

With Sonya there is no guessing, if you Block her combo string that's it you've got
Her.

 

[exflyingbooty]

The mixup in ms is actually low/throw, you can get out of it by doing something like low block and then quickly let go but that's extremely difficult
If you do try it you can hit someone with 4 only if they try getting out of the above set up like i said.

Also delaying ms can work wonders since 3 does low profile so many things

 

[I GOT HANDS]

If they are blocking low waiting to react to MS4 can't you just cancel MS and go into another unreactable mix-up? Cancel is 4 frames and B1 is 12 giving you a 16f OH from the start up of MS, 18f give or take execution, that's faster than SubZeros OH for example and much faster than the 22f one... And really it's still 12f unreactable because you are threatening the low the entire time... I mean there's nothing reactable here, if you read no armour and that he's gunna try block the MSmixup, you can always get a 50/50 here right... Or is the frame data wrong?

Regardless the grab is a mixup like said above.

Tanya has a safe mashable string that jails and if not cancelled into is Safe, unlike ms 2 leaving you in a must block situation. However, to mix it up Tanya can cancel into her 50/50 armored overhead /low ex specials, that rightly leaves her punishable if guessed correctly.

With Sonya there is no guessing, if you Block her combo string that's it you've got
Her.

This is just absolute, complete, nonsense. Which string are you referring to man so we can try to understand what you are saying a bit better, because this makes absolutely no sense.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I really think the OH should be buffed to have quicker start up frames regardless tho

 

[Dedlock]

The mixup in ms is actually low/throw, you can get out of it by doing something like low block and then quickly let go but that's extremely difficult
If you do try it you can hit someone with 4 only if they try getting out of the above set up like i said.

Also delaying ms can work wonders since 3 does low profile so many things

It's not extremely difficult it's easy block reacting to Ms, actually a quick d1, d2, d3 or D4 would just trash the whole thing before it even begins, don't have fast reflexes armour your way out of there, Sonya's MS gives people who lack experience against her the illusion of good 50/50 but if you look at it properly, MS is hella flawed and weak and should primarily be used complementary to guaranteed cancels in strings.

I really think the OH should be buffed to have quicker start up frames regardless tho

Yes. That's what I'm saying it's too slow to be taken seriously as a 50/50.

 

[Tony at Home]

I really think the OH should be buffed to have quicker start up frames regardless tho

She doesn't need it.

People need to do b1~MS4 more and not always b14~MS4 and expecting that to work.

It's a command- overhead. The strength is not as a slow startup overhead, but as a special cancel- an overhead that can come out at anytime and that's how it hits you.

MS1 works the same way. I don't think anyone has ever ducked B1~MS1 on me ever. Hell, anytime an opponent is sitting there trying to react to the MS4 OH it means they've already decided to be free to grab.

Anyway, Sonya doesn't need any buffs.

 

[Ninequads93]

her being able to get a safe drone call off of b332,11, and b14 is really crazy

Not only tat but they all hit confirm on hit in the corner midscreen only b332

 

[Tony at Home]

Also for Droneya, b332 and 11 into SG shot are about 2 additional plus frames than other options like b14, and 213

Why? I have no clue. Distance maybe.

 

[Ninequads93]

Also for Droneya, b332 and 11 into SG shot are about 2 additional plus frames than other options like b14, and 213

Why? I have no clue. Distance maybe.

Dude they are who knows why lol but this also means she gains a safe 50/50 after her 50/50 since she can cancel into heavy blast or Low kami