Question - Summoner Dink's Summoner Match Up Chart!(Updated 10/30/15)

[Wintermute088]

Advantage GM Sub....I....uhh...what? Lol man the downplay is real. Holy shit.

 

[1man3letters]

Difficult MUs:

Metallic Tremor

Even MUs:

Aftershock Tremor
Crystalline Tremor

out of interest why do u feel metallic tremor does best against summoner?

 

[OFIDYAN]

I like it

 

[ryublaze]

@Red Raptor

Also ive played countless games with @Immortal Kombat hes done a great job of analyzing the MU. He believes its a 7-3

No but I can kind of see where he is coming from. So the issue is after f12 2+4(both hits) kunai Quan is out of d1 range which might make it seem like f1 is guaranteed. But Quan can actually D4 and it will low profile the F1. It should give enough hit advantage to back away unless the frame data is wrong. You can also NJP if you think he is going to do it but you actually have to delay it a little bit because it will whiff otherwise. So it is hard if his kunai pressure is done right but there are definitely ways out of it even in the corner. I also think one of Takeda's main problems in the MU is Quan's Zoning. Sure Takeda has a teleport which makes it a little more difficult but one blocked teleport might as well mean death for him. I can maybe see this being 6-4 Takeda but I would be more inclined to say its 5-5.

The funny thing is while I think this MU chart overestimates Shirai Ryus effectiveness against Quan, I think it severely underestimates Ronin against Quan. Ronin's pressure is much better than SR and can actually frametrap quan. After much testing I dont really see how Quan can get out of it without taking the last hit of the f1 string after backdashing, which Takeda can easily set up again. In the corner it is pretty much an infinite. Ronin also doesnt get outzoned by Quan as bad as he can use his own EX projectile(which absorbs all other projectiles) or he can use reflect. SR can anti-zone with teleport but if Quan blocks it that could be Takeda's life, whereas a missed reflect is slightly less dangerous(although the Quan could EX trance in certain circumstances to punish). I dont really think Quan has 7-3 MUs against him up but I would put Ronin up there with Kobu Tanya given the fact that he can compete in footsies and zoning, and basically infinites Quan in the corner.

i thought it was 5-5 or 6-4 at best but idk about 7-3... i dont see how a character with that good of an offense can get 7-3ed by anyone in this game. but that's just imo.

Takeda can always end his pressure with mid kunai and be at +2 cuz Quan's armor sucks. He has + on block 50/50s similar to Quan, except they aren't as + to guarantee another 50/50 and if they know the MU they can jump out of the EX Kunais if they read it. He also relies on meter to keep pressure going or for combos which he needs for breaker.

The teleport's a godsend against his zoning. Most characters have to walk to get in but with SR u can jump around and avoid ground bursts/bats and teleport your way in. It also stops Quan from jumping back and doing air skulls. It's not that easy to punish either unless you're just throwing it out randomly.

Ronin doesn't block infinite Quan... not even when he had his block infinite lol. b212+4 blade drop is only +1 so if he reads a f1 he can poke out or punish with a full combo. And if Quan guesses right and punishes EX Blade Kall then ggs. Quan also has actual 50/50s that can't be fuzzied as easy. You can fuzzy Ronin's 50/50 because b2 is 12 frames and b3 is 21.

I'm not sure how Ronin has an easier time than SR when dealing with his zoning. Ground bursts can't be reflected and i don't think it can be absorbed either. His zoning's just average in comparison to Quan IMO.

@Dja_Homies

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

out of interest why do u feel metallic tremor does best against summoner?

I have to play it a bit more to understand it all. I should have put it in the "little experience" section. Ive played a few sets against metallic and ive gotten destroyed lol. It feels really bad. Not sure if @STB Boba Grimes could give his take on it

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Quan struggles in the corner. Sub has a fairly easy time getting him there. I aint saying its 7-3 or anything. I just give a slight advantage to sub. Thats all.

That makes no sense, the entire screen for Sub is worse do him than being in the corner is for Quan. This character is one step down from being designed to hard counter him


But regardless, If thats the case then why did you say Grandmaster was one of Quan's easiest match-ups when it benefitted you to do so? Do you only state the truth when it serves your agenda?

I think you know just as well as the rest of us that Quan is possibly the hardest match-up in the game that GM has other than DVorah. I think you knew this quite well when you even SAID that GM is an easy match up for Quan because it helped you argue how not op QC is, but when it comes time to matchup lists it's back to weaving the old narrative in a different manner. Relentless Jason goes 5-5 with Sumonner Quan. Riiiiiiiiiiite. So much nonsense in this List.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

That makes no sense, the entire screen for Sub is worse do him than being in the corner is for Quan. This character is one step down from being designed to hard counter him


But regardless, If thats the case then why did you say Grandmaster was one of Quan's easiest match-ups when it benefitted you to do so? Do you only state the truth when it serves your agenda?

I think you know just as well as the rest of us that Quan is possibly the hardest match-up in the game that GM has other than DVorah. I think you knew this quite well when you even SAID that GM is an easy match up for Quan because it helped you argue how not op QC is, but when it comes time to matchup lists it's back to weaving the old narrative in a different manner. Relentless Jason goes 5-5 with Sumonner Quan. Riiiiiiiiiiite. So much nonsense in this List.

Sorry you're so upset with my list. Just my opinion. Didn't see any other summoners making em so thought I'd shine some light on the character. We can agree to disagree

 

[Hellbringer]

That makes no sense, the entire screen for Sub is worse do him than being in the corner is for Quan. This character is one step down from being designed to hard counter him


But regardless, If thats the case then why did you say Grandmaster was one of Quan's easiest match-ups when it benefitted you to do so? Do you only state the truth when it serves your agenda?

I think you know just as well as the rest of us that Quan is possibly the hardest match-up in the game that GM has other than DVorah. I think you knew this quite well when you even SAID that GM is an easy match up for Quan because it helped you argue how not op QC is, but when it comes time to matchup lists it's back to weaving the old narrative in a different manner. Relentless Jason goes 5-5 with Sumonner Quan. Riiiiiiiiiiite. So much nonsense in this List.

My agenda says your more talk then play

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Sorry you're so upset with my list. Just my opinion. Didn't see any other summoners making em so thought I'd shine some light on the character. We can agree to disagree

I just don't understand why it's one way when it agrees with your augment but also the other when it does too... And you haven't given any explanation... An statement I disagree with I can understand, but this just seems like it's whichever way you want it to be at the time

My agenda says your more talk then play

Aye We can play

 

[Atriox]

Not sure if @STB Boba Grimes could give his take on it

I have not played metallic vs Quan yet, so I can't say.

 

[ienjoywinning]

You have no experience against marksman , no way quan beats him infact marksman does a better job than outlaw vs quan just because marksman isn't overused dosen't mean he is trash

 

[SaSSolino]

I can't see any variation of Shinnok winning, or going even, against Summoner Quan honestly, why do you see it so hard for Quan?

 

[Scoot Magee]

@STB Shujinkydink

I think ninjutsu scorpion at least belongs with his other variations in terms of this match. Honestly I think it fairs better than inferno because of how risky inferno is against quan. I think having him in the free section is a little over the top.

Hellfire can lock him down better but he does have to actually get in on quan which can be risky. Still when inside he can be a good threat.

I'm actually most comfortable with ninjutsu mostly due to his range and ability to hold onto meter for anti zoning and breakers. Breakers are huge against quan so I feel it's very important to keep meter stocked.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Yea I thought Summoner Quan vs Jason was more than likely slight Quan favor before. After this patch it's absolutely abysmal. The goal is to get Quan to the corner, to get a whopping 11-20% damage at a time. The d1 buff also helps poke out of whatever gimmicky pressure we previously had. Jason is pretty much making 6-7 correct guesses on knockdown while Quan only really needs one. Ex clothesline is nice to close the gap on reaction, but it's just not enough.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

You have no experience against marksman , no way quan beats him infact marksman does a better job than outlaw vs quan just because marksman isn't overused dosen't mean he is trash

I have a ton of marksman experience actually. Quan counters him quite well. Controls all aspects of the screen. Marksman still has options, im not saying its unwinnable. Its just in quans favour.

Yea I thought Summoner Quan vs Jason was more than likely slight Quan favor before. After this patch it's absolutely abysmal. The goal is to get Quan to the corner, to get a whopping 11-20% damage at a time. The d1 buff also helps poke out of whatever gimmicky pressure we previously had. Jason is pretty much making 6-7 correct guesses on knockdown while Quan only really needs one. Ex clothesline is nice to close the gap on reaction, but it's just not enough.

I agree man, I totally forgot to move Jasons placement. I will do so now

 

[ienjoywinning]

I have a ton of marksman experience actually. Quan counters him quite well. Controls all aspects of the screen. Marksman still has options, im not saying its unwinnable. Its just in quans favour.



I agree man, I totally forgot to move Jasons placement. I will do so now

I strongly disagree , theres barely any difference between outlaw and marksman. Pretty much the same characters , erron can torture quan in the corner harder than most of the cast. Thats goes for all his variations. I dont see how outlaw does a better job.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I strongly disagree , theres barely any difference between outlaw and marksman. Pretty much the same characters , erron can torture quan in the corner harder than most of the cast. Thats goes for all his variations. I dont see how outlaw does a better job.

Outlaw is much harder. Have you played much marksman vs summoner? Pros/cons? What am I missing?

 

[Paaapiman]

before the patch Quan vs Dualist it was pretty easy for dualist (wtf with a 6f poke to the character with the best and easiest offense in the game), now its a bit harder but dualist still has decent pressure and once quan is in the floor or after a standing bicycle kick you keep pressure. 6-4 to Quan but not easy as fuck

 

[ienjoywinning]

Outlaw is much harder. Have you played much marksman vs summoner? Pros/cons? What am I missing?

Yeah , i mean like up close erron is just gonna 21122 , with marksman he of course gains guncancels and doing 21122 gc 21122 isn't really a true block string , but if i make you respect my ex sg i can do that and it gains a fuck load of meter ,in genaral i can pressure you harder due to the mind game of gun cancels i also hit alot more than outlaw in the corner , i think only downside in this mu is that quan can keep him out as erron lacks in zoning , i also think gunslinger does better than both.