Guide - Sub-Zero SUB-ZERO COMBO THREAD (Patch 8/31)

[carrion4worm]

so.. im hating the b2 guessing game. pop ups inconsistent in matches. so with cryo, I've turned a tricky bnb into a consistent killer. Didn't see it in OP, but it's simply F42,1+3,xx exdf2, f122, f122, F42 1+3xxdb2. I think I remember 36% (?). Can anyone help me optimize? I hate b2 into run...I see why Lord Brady often just opts for slide after lol.

edit: f42 1+3xxEXdb2, f42 1+3xxdb2 is 37%, and piss-easy, but not as swag...

 

[Lokheit]

so.. im hating the b2 guessing game. pop ups inconsistent in matches. so with cryo, I've turned a tricky bnb into a consistent killer. Didn't see it in OP, but it's simply F42,1+3,xx exdf2, f122, f122, F42 1+3xxdb2. I think I remember 36% (?). Can anyone help me optimize? I hate b2 into run...I see why Lord Brady often just opts for slide after lol.

edit: f42 1+3xxEXdb2, f42 1+3xxdb2 is 37%, and piss-easy, but not as swag...

You should add a JIP after any freeze.

Also, keep training the B2 into run. F4 is really easy to connect (tip: let them fall a bit instead of rushing it, there is plenty of time to catch them even if it looks like they will be too far), if you'd say you have a problem connecting a B12 after run (which ia what the other variations do for maximum damage) I would understand, but F4, once you get it, is super easy to connect.

And with Cryo always Ex Hammer over Ex Freeze in your combos. Safer, armored, same speed and muuuuuch better damage potential. If you spend 1 bar with the meter hungry Cryo, be sure you're going past 40% or don't use it.

 

[Samsara]

So, I've seen the recent news regarding the 114 OTG clone setup with Sub-Zero. I'll need some help from you guys to make sure the routes I find are optimal, feel free to share what you find here or tag me if your posting in the OTG thread.

So far I haven't been able to conistently get an OTG off of his full combos in the corner. I'll keep practicing

 

[Samsara]

OK here's what I've got so far:

B2 B2 11 114 (26%) is the route that most consistently allows for a clone OTG. Any cancelable starter into freeze leads into this route as well.

Follow up combo: FJP B2 B2 242 123xxBF4 (30%)

I'll add to the OP unles you guys find something better.

 

[zoofs]

theres combos you can do without 114 from what I remember and btw the whole idea of using this otg clone thing is almost entirely useless

you can just end the same combo with f12 or njk and get a safe clone + safe 50/50 with your clone as well as the chance to just shred armor normally

the whole idea of using the + frames for a 50/50 is so redundant its not even funny

 

[Samsara]

theres combos you can do without 114 from what I remember and btw the whole idea of using this otg clone thing is almost entirely useless

you can just end the same combo with f12 or njk and get a safe clone + safe 50/50 with your clone as well as the chance to just shred armor normally

the whole idea of using the + frames for a 50/50 is so redundant its not even funny

I see what you're getting at. I didn't think about it that way. It did seem quite absurd when I was practicing tbh, I suppose I shouldn't take all tech at face value.

 

[zoofs]

I see what you're getting at. I didn't think about it that way. It did seem quite absurd when I was practicing tbh, I suppose I shouldn't take all tech at face value.

there's also the fact that you are at a disadvantage as you're then forced to wait even longer in clone recovery because you just used ex clone immediately on a knockdown. Imo just a terrible option in the corner but I've been using ex clone in a similar way midscreen for a bit now so it's cool that he mentioned that in the thread I guess.

doing some form of regular ex clone setup to bait out something/use the + frames and then jumping over or reversing position with them so they're forced to deal with your pressure as well as the clone providing free advantage when they're pushed into it is great.

 

[DoctrineDark]

Some Unbreakable stuff
(Instant jump 2 also can connect in midscreen after activating EX armor)

 

[Samsara]

Some Unbreakable stuff
(Instant jump 2 also can connect in midscreen after activating EX armor)

I already noted this.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

theres combos you can do without 114 from what I remember and btw the whole idea of using this otg clone thing is almost entirely useless

you can just end the same combo with f12 or njk and get a safe clone + safe 50/50 with your clone as well as the chance to just shred armor normally

the whole idea of using the + frames for a 50/50 is so redundant its not even funny

Why is using advantage to get a 50/50 redundant?

 

[zoofs]

Why is using advantage to get a 50/50 redundant?

because you already have safer advantage with a clone up to 50/50 as well as shred armor? lmao what the

 

[RM Ree]

If a decent set up was found, I could see this being useful in matches vs. characters that basically ignore corner clone (Kenshi, Takeda).

 

[zoofs]

If a decent set up was found, I could see this being useful in matches vs. characters that basically ignore corner clone (Kenshi, Takeda).

the situation is so rare that its completely unnecessary, even if they have a free way around clone in the corner you still have the chance to use that safe f12/njk knockdown to 50/50 them regardless without burning the bar. OR just set up a safe clone and don't go for a 50/50, bait whatever they're going to do without burning a bar on a useless setup

 

[I GOT HANDS]

because you already have safer advantage with a clone up to 50/50 as well as shred armor? lmao what the

Except you have a choice, try to break the armour, or go for the 50/50. The 50/50 doesn't shred armour, so the reset gives you a completely uninterruptible 50/50, without having to risk a read on the armour. So it's not at all redundant.




The "lmao what the, I'm so much more intelligent than this guy" isn't necessary when discussing something civil like this

 

[RM Ree]

Someone mentioned the only way to avoid this was to tech roll and block. That essentially takes the wake up guessing game out of the equation. If only we had a way to do this meterless, I'd use it a lot.

 

[RM Ree]

Except you have a choice, try to break the armour, or go for the 50/50. The 50/50 doesn't shred armour, so the reset gives you a completely uninterruptible 50/50, without having to risk a read on the armour. So it's not at all redundant.




The "lmao what the, I'm so much more intelligent than this guy" isn't necessary when discussing something civil like this

The 50/50 and the armor shred have kind of become one in the same. You can do it with OH/ low.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

The 50/50 and the armor shred have kind of become one in the same. You can do it with OH/ low.

Character specific right?

 

[zoofs]

Except you have a choice, try to break the armour, or go for the 50/50. The 50/50 doesn't shred armour, so the reset gives you a completely uninterruptible 50/50, without having to risk a read on the armour. So it's not at all redundant.

The "lmao what the, I'm so much more intelligent than this guy" isn't necessary when discussing something civil like this

but the b2 part of the 50/50 CAN shred lol, same with b33 and 12 (not really a 50/50 but you understand the point) depending on the wakeup/clone placement. I'd much rather even just have the ability to shred armour without doing it than using an unsafe 50/50 with useless plus frames.

the what the is necessary and I don't see where I was implying I was more intelligent, just thought this was all pretty obvious if you play sub. The biggest part of this being bad is the fact that you can set up a safe clone and go for a 50/50 that will possibly shred or just go for the check and remain safe against the majority of the cast instead of purposely playing risky while burning meter at the same time

not to mention you are missing out on shatter combos for bigger damage and the whole third guessing game that is throwing into clone

 

[RM Ree]

Yes, it's MU specific at least.

And while it's technically a 50/50, it's a relatively small reward when your low hits clean for a multitude of reasons. If close clone shatters didn't trigger auto block, this would be a completely different story.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

but the b2 part of the 50/50 CAN shred lol, same with b33 and 12 (not really a 50/50 but you understand the point) depending on the wakeup/clone placement. I'd much rather even just have the ability to shred armour without doing it than using an unsafe 50/50 with useless plus frames.

the what the is necessary and I don't see where I was implying I was more intelligent, just thought this was all pretty obvious if you play sub. The biggest part of this being bad is the fact that you can set up a safe clone and go for a 50/50 that will possibly shred or just go for the check and remain safe against the majority of the cast instead of purposely playing risky while burning meter at the same time

I do play Sub, and it's funny how you call it so obvious that it needed that "what the", (and act like there is no undertones there ) but yet your explanation shows you are factually, utterly and undebatably 100% incorrect, making it not so "obvious" at all. Just because you like something less as an option doesn't make it redundant. CAN shred armor against matchup specific specials, is very different to ALWAYS shreds, or not even giving them a chance to armor at ALL. Redundant would mean worse in every single way, yet it's clearly better in some.

On top of all this, it's irrelevant - the people you responded to talkig about plus frame resets weren't talking about GM, they were talking about Cryomancer, so nothing you said involving the clone means anything

 

[zoofs]

I do play Sub, and it's funny how you call it so obvious that it needed that "what the", (and act like there is no undertones there ) but yet your explanation shows you are factually, utterly and undebatably 100% incorrect, making it not so "obvious" at all. Just because you like something less as an option doesn't make it redundant. CAN shred armor against matchup specific specials, is very different to ALWAYS shreds, or not even giving them a chance to armor at ALL. Redundant would mean worse in every single way, yet it's clearly better in some.

On top of all this, it's irrelevant - the people you responded to talkig about plus frame resets weren't talking about GM, they were talking about Cryomancer, so nothing you said involving the clone means anything

uh yeah, no. They were talking about grandmaster and using the plus frames from a blocked OTG ex clone, wtf. No one I quoted was talking about cryomancer at all, this is all related directly to the OTG clone tech thread.

also I've seen you say numerous times that you dropped sub for lao because he wasn't good enough, but nice.

Using a bar of meter just to get a 50/50 with the plus frames from a blocked clone when you can instead set up a safe clone, even check them if you want, then get a safe 50/50 with even the option of armor shredding at all is much better all around.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

uh yeah, no. They were talking about grandmaster and using the plus frames from a blocked OTG ex clone, wtf. No one I quoted was talking about cryomancer at all, this is all related directly to the OTG clone tech thread.

also I've seen you say numerous times that you dropped sub for lao because he wasn't good enough, but nice.

Using a bar of meter just to get a 50/50 with the plus frames from a blocked clone when you can instead set up a safe clone, even check them if you want, then get a safe 50/50 with even the option of armor shredding at all is much better all around.

You didn't quote anyone, you simply said that using plus frames for resets is redundant. Considering just a few post before yours people are talking about the plus frame resets for Cryo, it's not too much of a reach for me to think you were talking about that, no? I see now that you were talking about the OTGClone thread, however I hadn't read it at the time so I didn't get what you were talking about, I thought it was a response to the plus frame reset talk just before you and I was only asking why it's redundant, because I didn't think it was.

Power level was not what made me switch to Lao, if it was I wouldn't have picked up Hat Trick, I mean I think most people would tier GM higher than Hat Trick even now, and I picked up Hat Trick BEFORE the buffs he got.
I "dropped" SZ as my main for Kung Lao because I didn't like the playstyle as much, but still play him all the time as my secondary. His polarized matchups can be a pain as a main as I'm sure you guys all know, I enjoy the flashiness and fast paced play style of Hat Trick is all.

And I agree that it's probably better in general, and overall. I'm just saying it doesn't completely outclass it, and that it's a very viable option for removing their ability to armour if you just need one more 50/50 to get in. At least, that's what I was saying for Cryo frame reset. For GM it's a bit worse, but still not completely "redundant", at least not against the entire cast. I'm not sure what you mean with the OTGClone plus frames thing because I haven't had a chance to explore it and draw an opinion on it yet.

I was going to address the personal shots but I see you calmed yourself and edited them out, just want to say I appreciate it, no need for rudeness , just trying to talk MKX

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I agree the OTG Clone thing might be completely redundant, looking at it a bit further.

 

[zoofs]

I agree the OTG Clone thing might be completely redundant, looking at it a bit further.

I didn't quote anyone because my post was just directly below milkman's and talking to him as no one else had posted before that for a bit, then he quoted me right after.

just to be clear I was never once talking about cryo and the otg ex clone thing is definitely redundant as I was explaining, the whole justification the op and others had is the fact that you are very plus when they are forced to block the clone (which has also been disproven as they apparently aren't even forced to block it). The one thing I did agree on was that using plus frames from a blocked clone is good, just seems almost entirely useless in the corner because of the multitude of reasons I've already stated

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

F122, B2 RC F421+3 is killing me. I've been practicving it for hours to no success. I'm able to get it maybe 1 in 100 tries or even worse. I'm asking myself if NRS could make the link on this any harder. I can do B2 RC with no problems, but linking anything after F122 is a nightmare.

Anyone able to do this consistenly? What is your secret? I can't figure out the timing to run and cancel it into F421+3. Even getting proper timing on B2 itself after F122 is hard. Please help me out here...