Match-up Discussion - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GM Match Ups

[RM Ree]

Noticed on Possessed Kenshi, b4 sweep low profiles and punishes his teleport njp. Think this would work in Imposster Shinnok MU as well?

 

[Antlergroin]

I'm having a load of trouble with Mileena's (that know what they're doing) Liu Kang (Endless rushdown, getting kicked through clone, lack of decent wakeup options etc.) and Kung Jin Bojutsu (50% of his attacks just goes through clone and i'm fucked) . Anyone got tips against these matchups?

Edit* And Ermac. All he has to do is get one hit in and he's got a free 36% + combo. Clone is worthless, i can't punish him for going airborne and if i try to throw out an iceball i'm gonna eat a soul bolt or a teleport.

 

[RM Ree]

I don't have a lot of Liu Kang experience, so I'd just have general advice. I assumed his pressure would be more manageable after the patch. What's he using to kick through clones (the string, don't tell me he's using his feet)? Maybe consider trying Unbreakable here to help deal with the pressure/ chip.

As for Kung Jin, the match is easy to explain, difficult to execute. He beats you badly in the neutral, you beat him badly in the corner. In the neutral, know that his NJP is crazy unsafe and you can beat it low profile with slide (even ice ball on a read) if you don't want to risk an advancing normal. Get him to the corner and train him to expect jip as it'll dodge his armored launcher (note that just because he has a response to jip doesn't mean he's going to use it every time. Jin's d2 isn't great and it's risky at that). He may progress the meta to using NJP, trying to beat SZ jip, over armored wake ups). In this case, you have a b2 punish in the corner. Try and predict which option he'll choose and never assume he knows the match up. Wait for him to show you he knows and go from there. Mix in a back dash if he's beating clone with the staff strings and he'll freeze himself.

A lot of people dislike the Ermac MU, along with Scorpion and Mileena. It's character knowledge that comes with time. Don't try to ice skate up hill, some characters just beat the clone. If you're compelled to use GM, tailor your gameplay to punish what it is they're beating clone with. Instead of clone as a failed trap or liability, consider it a bait (punish Ermac teleport with b12, NJP Scorpion flame port, d4 armor shred Mileena ball).

Even before the buff, Cryomancer was a good choice for these guys. Now it should be a great one. They all have very unsafe options that they must commit to, between soul ball after mix ups, teleport wake ups and flip n' roll armor traps. Be patient, wait for these characters to hang themselves, then punish with the highest damage variation we have. While not necessary, try to only burn meter in Cryo when they have no option to break.

 

[Antlergroin]

I don't have a lot of Liu Kang experience, so I'd just have general advice. I assumed his pressure would be more manageable after the patch. What's he using to kick through clones (the string, don't tell me he's using his feet)? Maybe consider trying Unbreakable here to help deal with the pressure/ chip.

His F444 seems to catch me way too often online through clone. Trying to EX clone as wakeup simply uses your meter while liu can continue his combo. And pressure is a big problem since it's near impossible to armor through and he's got great recovery.

Also the only way to get through his fireball keepaway is ex-slide. So i'm spending all my meter just getting to him

 

[RM Ree]

I've never been a fan of wake up ex statue, maybe it's good now? Always had more luck with ex frost bomb. I'll experiment with the F444 string interacting with clone where I can. I do remember armor shred being effective against this dude too if you want to look into incorporating that into your play. The best approach I can think of is to look at the Liu Kang boards. Find which strings > cancel people abuse, find out which are actually safe/ unsafe for instance. I know I always use f42 xx clone a lot and people seem to respect that despite it being unsafe, but if punished I advance the play into f4 xx clone. They'll likely do something similar. That's just the one idea. In general, specific character boards are where people tend to expose their own characters weaknesses, and loudly.

 

[AK cyusstrike]

Any tips against Warlock Quan chi he really is annoying and seems very safe I need a better angle on this mu seem like he nullifys Subs tool till the corner even then unless I'm doing f4 into clone he can portal kick me on reaction.Ice ball seems useless and on knd it's highly annoying dealing with the oki after portal kick or portal toss ender and low ex scoop is annoying to deal with cause of the armor even tho its punishable on blk

 

[boba_buster]

You gotta rush down quan , he doesn't have good wake up , whenever you knock him down run up and b33 or f33

 

[llabslb]

Is there a way to corner goro?

 

[RM Ree]

Is there a way to corner goro?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Like he beats clone with armor or stomp?

 

[llabslb]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Like he beats clone with armor or stomp?

Armour

 

[Creepy00]

I don't think subzero can trap goro in the corner. Ex punchwalk goes through ice clone set ups like nothing.

 

[RM Ree]

Goro has a lot of armor on his moves too, so you can't break it like the slower, more fragile kharachers. Try and get a good read on his punch walk, jump forward so he runs underneath and come from behind to punish (giggity). After the freeze jump over and put him right back in the corner. If he doesn't punch walk, try to mix him up or tick throw him. At the very least, you'll take away his most threatening armored wake up.

 

[llabslb]

That involves a lot of jumping and considering that Goro has a pretty good anti air (u1/u2) that also sounds like a pretty risky game plan.

 

[RM Ree]

The first jump is a risk, but doing it makes Goro spending meter to armor out of the corner more of a risk. I don't think there's a risk free way to stop him.

 

[Creepy00]

Not while he has meter, you just gotta respect his wake up options. Like you mentioned, you can jump over his wake up ex punchwalk and caught him with a slide or f4 iceball. I have done it before.

 

[Snoop88]

Any tips against Quan and Tanya?

 

[UsedForGlue]

Honestly, I think Grandmaster has the only 8-2 or 9-1 MU in the game, vs Sun God.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Is there a way to corner goro?

EX-Punchwalk makes it extremely hard to do, this is possibly Goro's best match up, even if it isn't necessarily slanted his way its still better than his other ones

 

[seakaybe]

Honestly, I think Grandmaster has the only 8-2 or 9-1 MU in the game, vs Sun God.

Is that in his favour or against? And what makes you say that?

 

[llabslb]

So Goros MB punch walk is 43 frames and has armour throughout the whole move. He's not getting cornered lol

 

[boba_buster]

Is it jus me or is the so called weakest characters in the game sub zeros worst matchups?

 

[RM Ree]

I get Goro. I don't agree with it, but I understand the argument. What other low tier does he struggle against? Takeda?

 

[boba_buster]

Takeda , scorpion , ermac , that's jus me tho.
I need to find a fighting game without ppl that teleport lol

 

[RM Ree]

Fighting game pet peeves in order: infinites, unblockables, zoning, dive kicks, teleports, low execution-high reward characters.

Teleports are tough to deal with. Especially when they lead to the crazy damage they do. People would shit if we dropped 40% off a wake up clone.

 

[boba_buster]

My biggest problem is being impatient , I don't get much time to play and when I do I always seem to be in a rush
That and lag