General/Other - Ethereal Ethereal Variation General Discussion

[MILE_HIGH_CLUB]

I 100% agree there. The meaty knee is pretty genius IMO, but the teleport kick is too much risk for not enough reward. Only time I'd even CONSIDER that one is if I KNOW someone's going to try to press a button, but I'd say that's a VERY hard read. Wit that said, thanks for sharing @MILE_HIGH_CLUB . I'm definitely looking forward to using the knee

yeah sorry about that guys, that meaty tele kick I would never throw that out my self either. it was simply a step I took to find the meaty knee .

 

[Damaja325]

F343,U3 MB,12,4,Roll,D2,4U31+2 - 49%

 

[TheGabStandard]

F343,U3 MB,12,4,Roll,D2,4U31+2 - 49%

After seeing this I really want to try and break 50% lol

 

[ZeroEffect]

So ending with 4,u3,1+2 is the new shit or what?

 

[Jolt]

So ending with 4,u3,1+2 is the new shit or what?

For Ethereal? I'd almost say for sure yes. Unless you're using @TakeAChance 's previous optimal combos. I haven't personally been able to connect a 4 after the air sai but I'm still hopeful. It LOOKS like an absolutely perfectly timed one might connect lol.

using the typical b34 sai combos, yeah it's a great ender. Even in Piercing, depending on the combo it actually does similar damage to Sadistic Ways but offers slightly more hit advantage from my observations. <----Disclaimer on that though, it has been a good week or so so I don't remember the exact damage difference. There was definitely more advantage though

 

[Damaja325]

After seeing this I really want to try and break 50% lol

well, i found a 50% with ethereal but it uses two bars. does that count? lol

anyway, F343,U3 MB,F23,Ex Roll,D2,4U31+2

EDIT: just found a 50% 1 bar for ethereal. F343,12,U3 MB,12,4,Roll,D2,4U31+2... kinda tight but it works

 

[Jolt]

I have some experimental combos I started working on today. I won't be surprised at all if the idea was known or if higher damaging combos already exist lol but the idea was for me to share and for someone more experienced to expand upon/correct.

What I have is a 39% midscreen one bar combo with 11 frame start up (and a few others just to show that it works on faster starters too). It's NOT online friendly but I think an offline player should be able to pull it off consistently with practice. Tight link, but not an impossible one. I can do it easier on pad than I can on hitbox but I haven't tried on stick.

Anyways, let's cut to the good stuff

4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2

That should be one bar 39% midscreen WITHOUT a starting jump in, but it can also be initiated off of a jump in for MORE damage. (41% I believe)

^Sorry about ShareFactory clipping the ends a bit, I didn't leave enough follow time. I definitely think there's some room for improvement on these. To help execution, basically just hold up/forward after you input your EX fade, and enter the punch once you're airborne. When muscle memory takes over, it isn't so bad. Still going to be rough for online though :'(

Other combos in video:

4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 39%
b22~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 39%
12~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 35%
b12~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 37%

jump in punch, 4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 41%

2 BAR JUST FOR TESTING:
f23~ex fade forwards (to switch sides) 4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 43%

Help improve these! I don't think anyone else has been using the instant jump in combos, but we can do it with njp (seems useless) and jip, getting that into f12b4 is certainly pleasant.

Once again, I don't think these are optimal and I think someone else could IMPROVE upon them or provide better combos all around that do similar damage.

 

[TheGabStandard]

well, i found a 50% with ethereal but it uses two bars. does that count? lol

anyway, F343,U3 MB,F23,Ex Roll,D2,4U31+2

EDIT: just found a 50% 1 bar for ethereal. F343,12,U3 MB,12,4,Roll,D2,4U31+2... kinda tight but it works

Funny that I found a 50% as well. Try this and see of you find this easier to do.

F343, 2, U3, 2, D1, 4 xx Roll, D2, 4U31+2

 

[Jolt]

Regarding my previous post, I already started trying to put more work in myself. Using @TakeAChance 's formula for optimal meter gain (ending in roll, jik~teleport kick~air sai, run b22sai) I increased the damage of the b12 starter, but currently it is a TOUGH link. The jump kick often comes out the wrong direction if you don't time it right.

b12~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 37%

became

b12~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, jik~teleport kick~air sai, run b22sai - 38%

but should get just a little bit more meter lol. More damage and more meter at the price of extra execution. Just theory crafting as always, haha you guys know me

EDIT: I need to start doing ALL of my testing before I post lol

Just buffed the original combo to 40%

4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, b34~air sai, run 4u31+2 - 39%

is now

4~stationary EX Fade-jump forward 1 (this is the tightest timing of it all), f12b4~roll, jik~teleport kick~air sai, run b22sai - 40%

so I'm GUESSING that they all will get an extra percent and more meter using Chance's optimal ethereal combo ender. I couldn't get it before because I was breaking the rule. For f12b4, you jump BACK for your kick. Once I did that, I can connect it minimal issues.

EDIT 2: I swear this is the end of it for tonight

21 also works as a starter for 38% (same combo) but you have to use jump in 2, ji1 doesn't offer quite enough advantage to allow f1 to continue combo after that string.

I am now determined to find a way to make f4 work, but it's looking impossible

EDIT 3: OK I'm done.

Iiight, so I had more time to test and f23 works as well, even with a stationary EX fade.(tight timing requires jump in 2) - 40%

So ultimately, all I did was find a way to add a free jump in punch to our existing optimal for more combos. Yay! Hopefully this will stir some creative minds and we can still get even more.

These are NICE off of a connected jump in. The execution is worth it.

 

[VAAAAAAAAN]

Damn them ethereal breakthrus though. GJ guys this shits great.

 

[Damaja325]

Funny that I found a 50% as well. Try this and see of you find this easier to do.

F343, 2, U3, 2, D1, 4 xx Roll, D2, 4U31+2

so far i'm finding my way easier. i'm having trouble with timing the D1 into the 4. i'll keep at it though.

truth be told, i prolly wouldn't bother attempting for the 50 in a real game lol. the 48% is just alot more consistent.

 

[TheGabStandard]

so far i'm finding my way easier. i'm having trouble with timing the D1 into the 4. i'll keep at it though.

truth be told, i prolly wouldn't bother attempting for the 50 in a real game lol. the 48% is just alot more consistent.

Looking at the notation your combo is likely easier execution wise than mine so most people should try that first if they want the 50%. The timimg of 2, D1, 4 is tricky if you have never done it before. Would a video help?

 

[Damaja325]

Looking at the notation your combo is likely easier execution wise than mine so most people should try that first if they want the 50%. The timimg of 2, D1, 4 is tricky if you have never done it before. Would a video help?

nah, it's all good. i actually had a look at that 52% piercing u posted in the other thread. i pulled it off a few times, but like i said, the D1 into 4 is really tight.

 

[TakeAChance]

Don't forget when doing the optimal enders to finish with a teleport backwards. It's free and a pip of neter and usually let's you toss more sais.

 

[Jolt]

I'm working some more on the instant jump in combos this morning, and honestly? They're EASY. It's free additional damage. Few notes I've noticed though:

f23 jip starter DOES NOT work on females (at least not Cassie) sometimes the punch connects but it's too late. Everything else looks good to go and universal.

I'm definitely glad I could find even a few more percent for a bar midscreen. 37 was nice, but 40 is lovely. I'll try to get videos of the absolute optimal (damage + meter regain) tonight if no one beats me to it.

40% and regaining a little less than a third of a bar. I love our empress.

 

[GQJ]

May I ask Mileena players in what situations they like to use B22 v F23? They almost seem like twin sisters.

 

[Baconlord]

May I ask Mileena players in what situations they like to use B22 v F23? They almost seem like twin sisters.

B22 is kind of a bill imo. It reaches pretty far but she brings her hurt box foward with the attack so just about everything hits her out of. F23 is a little slower but she attacks well in front of her and it ends in a low for some mixups.

 

[GQJ]

B22 is kind of a bill imo. It reaches pretty far but she brings her hurt box foward with the attack so just about everything hits her out of. F23 is a little slower but she attacks well in front of her and it ends in a low for some mixups.

Thanks, I am more comfortable w/F23 b/c of the pushback and its easier to hitconfirm. But I feel if I rely too much on it, it's slowness would be a detriment compared to B22.

 

[Jolt]

Thanks, I am more comfortable w/F23 b/c of the pushback and its easier to hitconfirm. But I feel if I rely too much on it, it's slowness would be a detriment compared to B22.

I personally feel that b2 (alone) is a better option than b22 unless you think there's a chance b2 will miss. There are a few benefits of b2 over f2 and then on top of that over f23

b2 on block is only -2 and they must read whether or not you will do b22.
On hit, b2 gives a massive stagger (22 frames)

Basically, b2 (instead of b22) allows you to continue pressure, and you can throw in b22 as an occasional mixup. I only like to use f23 when I'm ready to potentially lose pressure. If blocked, I use the push back to my advantage but if it hits, I just hit confirm into combo.

Or at least that's the theory. Ultimately, my dumb brain takes over and I end up negating both concepts by doing f234 hoping the low will catch someone off guard and then getting punished. But when I'm mentally on point, the above strategy is honestly better IMO

 

[GQJ]

I personally feel that b2 (alone) is a better option than b22 unless you think there's a chance b2 will miss. There are a few benefits of b2 over f2 and then on top of that over f23

b2 on block is only -2 and they must read whether or not you will do b22.
On hit, b2 gives a massive stagger (22 frames)

Basically, b2 (instead of b22) allows you to continue pressure, and you can throw in b22 as an occasional mixup. I only like to use f23 when I'm ready to potentially lose pressure. If blocked, I use the push back to my advantage but if it hits, I just hit confirm into combo.

Or at least that's the theory. Ultimately, my dumb brain takes over and I end up negating both concepts by doing f234 hoping the low will catch someone off guard and then getting punished. But when I'm mentally on point, the above strategy is honestly better IMO

Thanks for imparting your knowledge,

I did not think of just using B2, probably b/c I was immediately thinking about a) using B22 to whiff punish, b) using b22 to fade away on block. But what you are saying makes sense.

When you say b2 to continue pressure, is this assuming the opponent blocks after, b/c couldn't they poke?

When you use B22 as a mixup, you are counting on your opponent to get impatient after repeated B2's

How in your experience, have ppl punished your f234, it doesn't seem terribly unsafe.

 

[Jolt]

Thanks for imparting your knowledge,

I did not think of just using B2, probably b/c I was immediately thinking about a) using B22 to whiff punish, b) using b22 to fade away on block. But what you are saying makes sense.

When you say b2 to continue pressure, is this assuming the opponent blocks after, b/c couldn't they poke?

When you use B22 as a mixup, you are counting on your opponent to get impatient after repeated B2's

How in your experience, have ppl punished your f234, it doesn't seem terribly unsafe.

They could poke after a b2, but the threat of b22 wiill generally keep them blocking as long as you use both from time to time. It just isn't worth possibly taking the 2nd hit as well. They would have to 100% for sure read that you are going to only do b2. Their safest bet would be to backdash, honestly.

and yes, you are counting on them getting impatient after multiple b2's. Hititng a b2 basically means you get to attempt any move aside from f3 for free. Obviously, there's a risk of being punished. but you could safely go from b2 to a run in 123 or probably even f12

As far as f234 goes, I get punished almost every time. It's...-8? I believe. Sometimes it's just a poke, but that means I'm on defense now. With Cassie (the main character I faced until now), it's a combo punish from Cassie. I definitely wouldn't say not to use the move ever, I'd say don't overuse it. I just like to do as much as possible to keep my offense going

 

[GQJ]

They could poke after a b2, but the threat of b22 wiill generally keep them blocking as long as you use both from time to time. It just isn't worth possibly taking the 2nd hit as well. They would have to 100% for sure read that you are going to only do b2. Their safest bet would be to backdash, honestly.

Ok cool, what I am gathering is that shorter strings that are pretty safe (I will say -3, b/c that is what I see a lot) are better than longer strings that are equally safe because the threat of continuing the string (assuming the rest of the string is still safe) exists, as opposed to having to cancel the longer string with a special, which in a large number of cases is unsafe.

Last thing for now I promise but theoretically, how minus would B2 have to be to prevent you from primarily using it?

Oh yeah also F234 is -10 on block according to mkxframedata.com. So it seems technically unsafe, but not Ball Roll unsafe.

 

[Jolt]

Ok cool, what I am gathering is that shorter strings that are pretty safe (I will say -3, b/c that is what I see a lot) are better than longer strings that are equally safe because the threat of continuing the string (assuming the rest of the string is still safe) exists, as opposed to having to cancel the longer string with a special, which in a large number of cases is unsafe.

Last thing for now I promise but theoretically, how minus would B2 have to be to prevent you from primarily using it?

Oh yeah also F234 is -10 on block according to mkxframedata.com. So it seems technically unsafe, but not Ball Roll unsafe.

-10 would actually make a lot of sense, I wouldn't be surprised if that's accurate as I thought I recalled Cassie punishing with strings at times, but I didn't want to preach the gospel if it was wrong lol. I knew for sure at least -8 and a flipkick would punish it

You are correct that shorter strings are generally more safe. That's where the idea of stagger strings come in. Often, you can connect (or at least attempt) 12,21 because the opponent is waiting for 123. It's a mind game on whether you finish the string or continue

one example that I think is absolutely insane (and AWESOME) if you do f12b4~telekick air sai enough, people will keep blocking after f12b4 (which is -6) I've seen it to the point that I was able to do f12b4 f1 (16 frame startup!).

In my opinion, this is how you MUST play Mileena at the highest level. Staggers are necessary and you have to take some damage/hits and lose pressure JUST to condition the opponent.

The empress is the very definition of a mixup character. She isn't a 50/50 mixup, but she's an offensive mixup where most of her success will come from getting the opponent to respect options and then using the respect against them. Any time they get disrespectful, they could also potentially eat a roll or the end of a string. Too much respect and they could get thrown. It's such a dangerous game and it's hard to find balance with it in the heat of the moment.

Goodness. When I do write ups like this, I realize how much I love her and how good she would be if so many other characters weren't ridiculously good. I think I would definitely like to take some time and further mapout/optimize the stagger strategy as I think that's how she is meant to be played.

EDIT: I should also add, with ethereal the mixup and stagger strategy honestly becomes MORE effective with EX fade to dodge some punish attempts, escape counterpokes, and further alter the rhythm of strings.

 

[GQJ]

Goodness. When I do write ups like this, I realize how much I love her and how good she would be if so many other characters weren't ridiculously good. I think I would definitely like to take some time and further mapout/optimize the stagger strategy as I think that's how she is meant to be played.

I will be excited to hear your findings! Then use them against you to beat you in 2016. Or 2017.

 

[Jolt]

I will be excited to hear your findings! Then use them against you to beat you in 2016. Or 2017.

Haha, you can probably beat me today. I'm an admitted theory fighter. My reactions aren't where they need to be, but I guess you're new so yours probably aren't either lol.

I think I'd be capable of some incredible things if I could just get brain to work in the moment. Having a dedicated clan should help me with that though. More regular high-level training partners. Gotta stay sharp to stay victorious.