General/Other - Ethereal Ethereal Variation General Discussion

[GQJ]

Haha, you can probably beat me today. I'm an admitted theory fighter. My reactions aren't where they need to be, but I guess you're new so yours probably aren't either lol.

I think I'd be capable of some incredible things if I could just get brain to work in the moment. Having a dedicated clan should help me with that though. More regular high-level training partners. Gotta stay sharp to stay victorious.

What?! In my mind my reactions are Very Hard AI fast, I don't even make reads.

But seriously. Good luck with your clan endeavors.

 

[ZeroEffect]

The empress is the very definition of a mixup character. She isn't a 50/50 mixup, but she's an offensive mixup where most of her success will come from getting the opponent to respect options and then using the respect against them. Any time they get disrespectful, they could also potentially eat a roll or the end of a string. Too much respect and they could get thrown. It's such a dangerous game and it's hard to find balance with it in the heat of the moment.

Goodness. When I do write ups like this, I realize how much I love her and how good she would be if so many other characters weren't ridiculously good. I think I would definitely like to take some time and further mapout/optimize the stagger strategy as I think that's how she is meant to be played.

EDIT: I should also add, with ethereal the mixup and stagger strategy honestly becomes MORE effective with EX fade to dodge some punish attempts, escape counterpokes, and further alter the rhythm of strings.

I agree with pretty much everything you posted, but uh... here's the issue. The way you say Mileena must be played, is in fact, the way the GAME should be played. That's why this stuff works. Not as much because of Mileena, but because it's a solid strategy overall. You can apply this exact same concept to every character, barring certain execution barriers with run cancels. It's just that the best characters can play by their own rules.

This is why even though she's too unsafe to be a "good" character, she technically can win. EX Fade pressure assists in that for sure, but it's usually one bad read too many with Roll or Telekick and she suddenly looks helpless.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm killing the excitement, but that's the way it is.

 

[Jolt]

I agree with pretty much everything you posted, but uh... here's the issue. The way you say Mileena must be played, is in fact, the way the GAME should be played. That's why this stuff works. Not as much because of Mileena, but because it's a solid strategy overall. You can apply this exact same concept to every character, barring certain execution barriers with run cancels. It's just that the best characters can play by their own rules.

This is why even though she's too unsafe to be a "good" character, she technically can win. EX Fade pressure assists in that for sure, but it's usually one bad read too many with Roll or Telekick and she suddenly looks helpless.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm killing the excitement, but that's the way it is.

That is very true and you have a good point. I think I got blindsided by the characters that DON'T play by these rules. LOOKING AT YOU, QUAN CHI. Because THOSE are the characters that you have to beat in MKX (tournament wise), the ones that play a completely different game.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That is very true and you have a good point. I think I got blindsided by the characters that DON'T play by these rules. LOOKING AT YOU, QUAN CHI. Because THOSE are the characters that you have to beat in MKX (tournament wise), the ones that play a completely different game.

Right. That's my point. Not everyone who finds success with the Quan Chis, the D'vorahs, the Tanya's, The Predators, etc. has grasped these fundamentals completely. (This game still has time to grow, so in time that'll change.) But all I'm saying is, the reason WE all think this is breakthrough knowledge, is because we HAVE to fine tune this shit in order to keep up with the "rulebreakers" of the game.

It's actually not breakthrough though. It's basics, lol.

 

[Jolt]

Right. That's my point. Not everyone who finds success with the Quan Chis, the D'vorahs, the Tanya's, The Predators, etc. has grasped these fundamentals completely. (This game still has time to grow, so in time that'll change.) But all I'm saying is, the reason WE all think this is breakthrough knowledge, is because we HAVE to fine tune this shit in order to keep up with the "rulebreakers" of the game.

It's actually not breakthrough though. It's basics, lol.

Yeah, but I think even within the Mileena community a lot of players don't realize that. A Mileena player that doesn't have solid fundamentals isn't going to make it far at all. You're right in that it IS universal information, but it's not going to matter as much for some characters. When it comes to the basics, Mileena is still really well rounded. No doubt she still needs some design changes to keep up. No way am I so enamored to think she doesn't need at the bare minimum a faster poke so that roll isn't her only option in some situations.

When I'm playing my sidechick, Sonya, I hardly have to worry about making the most out of every move and I don't even know Sonya even close to in depth. With Mileena, every motion matters. I have the same understanding of the game, but with Sonya I get to play a different one.

No doubt about it though, you're right. It should be basic information applied to everyone but it isn't at the moment. Once it is, Mileena will ESPECIALLY need some adjustments. The teleport kick vortex has helped for sure across all variations, people are far less willing to take that kick than ever before

 

[ZeroEffect]

Yeah, but I think even within the Mileena community a lot of players don't realize that. A Mileena player that doesn't have solid fundamentals isn't going to make it far at all. You're right in that it IS universal information, but it's not going to matter as much for some characters. When it comes to the basics, Mileena is still really well rounded. No doubt she still needs some design changes to keep up. No way am I so enamored to think she doesn't need at the bare minimum a faster poke so that roll isn't her only option in some situations.

When I'm playing my sidechick, Sonya, I hardly have to worry about making the most out of every move and I don't even know Sonya even close to in depth. With Mileena, every motion matters. I have the same understanding of the game, but with Sonya I get to play a different one.

No doubt about it though, you're right. It should be basic information applied to everyone but it isn't at the moment. Once it is, Mileena will ESPECIALLY need some adjustments. The teleport kick vortex has helped for sure across all variations, people are far less willing to take that kick than ever before

I mean, I'm not saying I, myself, am some godlike player. There's more to being great than knowing the game, lol.

But that aside, Mileena's roll and Telekick are scary moves. Their utility is good. One of the most enraging things to my training partner was getting hit by wakeup Rolls, Rolls beating out jabs, or telekicks "out of nowhere". Why? Because they are UNSAFE. Getting hit by an annoying move you SHOULD have scared Mileena away from by blocking and punishing it... I can imagine.

Mileena makes you want to block, BUT people who know the matchup in-depth know to force her hand, since the reward they get for blocking her specials beats the reward she gets for landing them. ...most of the time anyway. Sonya? Or in my case, Cassie? They can apply those same fundamentals with zero risk, and thus, force you to play the guessing games.

 

[Jolt]

I mean, I'm not saying I, myself, am some godlike player. There's more to being great than knowing the game, lol.

But that aside, Mileena's roll and Telekick are scary moves. Their utility is good. One of the most enraging things to my training partner was getting hit by wakeup Rolls, Rolls beating out jabs, or telekicks "out of nowhere". Why? Because they are UNSAFE. Getting hit by an annoying move you SHOULD have scared Mileena away from by blocking and punishing it... I can imagine.

Mileena makes you want to block, BUT people who know the matchup in-depth know to force her hand, since the reward they get for blocking her specials beats the reward she gets for landing them. ...most of the time anyway. Sonya? Or in my case, Cassie? They can apply those same fundamentals with zero risk, and thus, force you to play the guessing games.

Zero risk is so true! I get so frustrated when I switch back to Mileena and can't d1/d3 to check someone with my frame advantage. At high level, the more safe characters are always at an advantage. Even when my 50/50s are blocked with Sonya, I have a SAFE (EX projectile) to cancel into across all variations. In Mileena's case, those options don't exist. Closest we can get is fade away on SOME strings, or high pounce which a couple characters can still punish.

 

[Baconlord]

I found a nice os with f4. You input f4 EXfade 4. The ex fade will only come out on block or hit and on whiff the f44 string comes out. Its great in footsies because if you happen to whiff f4 the string comes out making it a lot harder punish then f4 on its own and you get a full combo if it hits instead of a 12% soft knockdown. It's also great to beat delayed wakeups.

@TheGabStandard @ZeroEffect @TakeAChance @1man3letters @YOMI RM SaltFace @other ethereal players

 

[Jolt]

I found a nice os with f4. You input f4 EXfade 4. The ex fade will only come out on block or hit and on whiff the f44 string comes out. Its great in footsies because if you happen to whiff f4 the string comes out making it a lot harder punish then f4 on its own and you get a full combo if it hits instead of a 12% soft knockdown. It's also great to beat delayed wakeups.

@TheGabStandard @ZeroEffect @TakeAChance @1man3letters @YOMI RM SaltFace @other ethereal players

I've been using that a little bit after the 4u31+2 ender. Works pretty well against the characters that can't punish f44 anyway. It's like no matter what, you win lol

 

[SeanTheGaymer]

I have just started to use Ethereal and it's Notts bad takes a lot of skill which I still need to acquire, but I can do a 50% corner combo using 2 bar!

 

[Skylight1]

I have just started to use Ethereal and it's Notts bad takes a lot of skill which I still need to acquire, but I can do a 50% corner combo using 2 bar!

I love that combo bro, could you put inputs in them?

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

guys help me out when ethereal got buffed someone released amazing vid showing how she can abuse gaps in strings i need to find that again.

 

[Jolt]

guys help me out when ethereal got buffed someone released amazing vid showing how she can abuse gaps in strings i need to find that again.

Here ya go, from our very own @ZeroEffect

Also, here's a guide

 

[JerzeyReign]

I've been relearning Mileena on stick so I decided to learn Ethereal first. My damage combos are weak asf at the moment but I have been running through the list of most popular strings I can escape from. Kotal seems to be the only one in which I can't find a hole. Granted, I'm controlling the opponent and letting AI Mileena do the reversal but it seems he's pretty much sewn up. Anyone find any holes in his pressure?

 

[Yoaks]

I've been relearning Mileena on stick so I decided to learn Ethereal first. My damage combos are weak asf at the moment but I have been running through the list of most popular strings I can escape from. Kotal seems to be the only one in which I can't find a hole. Granted, I'm controlling the opponent and letting AI Mileena do the reversal but it seems he's pretty much sewn up. Anyone find any holes in his pressure?

Anything after b122 that isnt Low or Overhead sword.

 

[JerzeyReign]

Anything after b122 that isnt Low or Overhead sword.

Thanks. My real question was fading/vanishing to whiff punish. With a bar I want them to think twice about running down.

 

[Baconlord]

Thanks. My real question was fading/vanishing to whiff punish. With a bar I want them to think twice about running down.

If you read that kotal is going to go in to a sword mixup then you can fade behind him and get a F1 punish. Depending on what move he does I belive you could punish with f3 after a fade

 

[darklightjg1]

I was curious, does anyone know which frame her f3 goes into low crush mode/airborne? Also is there a list of frame advantages on hit and block for strings into EX Fade/Vanish (sorry, I haven't looked around the threads enough yet)? I just picked her up finally, and I am trying to figure out how to condition and pressure with her.

Edit: Reading the guide now from TakeAChance...

 

[Jolt]

Remember when this thread was all the rage? Those were the days lol.

Anyways, I was about to post this in another thread and I feel that it's more appropriate to discuss here:

I've started rethinking my ethereal gameplan. When the variation was new and fresh, we were all attempting all of these different options and ended up realizing one thing: With Piercing and Ravenous, you almost always had 3 full stacks of meter to work with (because WTF would we even spend meter on? A breaker?) with Ethereal, you're eating that shit like the antidote is trapped inside. I WISH I had a bar, right?

It's because EX fade is SO good for escaping pressure. But when we play Ravenous or Piercing, how do we get out? We just use our other options lol.

So I had a heart to heart with myself. I had to answer the most important question to myself:

Why did I fall in love with Ethereal? Because it fixed a hole in my gameplay. It closed up one of my biggest weaknesses. In my case, that wasn't getting out of pressure or not being able to wakeup. It was being safe. Being able to hit confirm, being able to ANNOY. Yet as the game and community evolved, I slipped away from that. EX fade became my get out of jail free card and as such I OVER-RELIED on it.

Now I've revamped my stile to my original gameplan with the original perks and I suggest that everyone who was using EX fade defensively (because of the meter dependency) re-thinks it a bit. In my case, EX fade is now an offensive tool again. Utilizing the plus frames of EX fade is NOT about opening people up.

One thing a player around here said resonated with me and I can't remember who to cite it to unfortunately. It was "No one has to respect a single thing Mileena does, they just have to respect her options" and for me, that's what EX fade does. It creates a meta game that is actually in her favor.

Let's take something such as f14~ EX fade. It's at least +10, surely someone knows the exact frame number (I know I can get it from Akro's thread, but I'm being lazy right now for the sake of discussion). We COULD jail into standing 2 or d3 (honestly doesn't matter, but d3 offers more advantage on hit while being less negative) or we could be disrespectful and throw out f1 again. Not much risk on our part, honestly. f1 will break most armor at that point, it will definitely stop any attack option. If they block it, we get more meter AND they have to respect SEVERAL options: Let me give you just SOME examples.

d3 fade away (check into a free escape against many characters, for some you might have to delay your reappearance)
f1 throw (safe unless they neutral duck, but that's a read because they're opening themselves to another option)
f1 d3 fade away (there's a gap, but they opened themselves to another option)
f12 throw (because despite being -10, there's the possibility that you would continue the string)
f12 ex roll (50/50 boys) <-----assuming you have a bar
f12b4 (-6, let's go)
f23~ fade away (safe, good meter build but won't break an armor attempt)
f12b4~telekick (UNSAFE, but you can utilize it for respect AND if it hits, you get to force them to guess again)
f12b4~fade away (UNSAFE, but people too eager to poke this are getting hit by the telekick above)


of the last 2, both of those options are punishable but you have to pick one and you're gaining some BEAUTIFUL meter on a blocked f12b4.

But, that is never your only option. You CAN just take the bar to open someone up with a throw. If you're mixing up your post EX fade options, the other player WILL get antsy from conditioning. Also, any time you do a string that the other player can't punish clean (up to -9 against some characters, like Erron black) there's the POTENTIAL that you will EX fade through their followup.

I know this exact thought and mind frame was discussed ages ago, but we as a community seem to have let it go and honestly, I think it's better. You're going to build (and have) more meter to burn through and by the time it's all said and done, you won't HAVE TO use EX fade after your set progresses because the mind game is taxing. Couple in the teleport kick vortex on top and things are frustrating.

The improvements I'd like to see for ethereal with this mindset:

Faster startup on regular fade. It doesn't matter that it can be poked. I want it to be fast enough that the opponent doesn't have time to discern whether you spent a bar before trying to poke. Then the mind game levels up considerably. I'd say 17-18f would probably do the trick as 14f would be overkill, even without invincibility and with recovery) this way, it would pretty much still only be used to teleport AWAY. Non-ex fade in place or towards would still be a major risk due to recovery, but fade away would have utility (they have to guess whether you spend bar, because it's too late once the brain can process which you did).

Faster startup on teleport kick. This would also make it harder to determine whether she used fade/exfade/teleport kick. Ultimately, the teleport kick is still an unsafe option, but there are so many senseless empty frames where she can be poked out of it right now. Down from 20f to 15f-18f?

tl;dr - I don't think Ethereal is the defensive/keep away variation that we want it to be. It's the frustration/mental fatigue variation. The absolute epitome of "You don't have to respect anything she does, you just have to respect her options" ethereal mixups are pretty real when you consider the plus frames and the options that you have after every hit. Maybe this variation IS "as safe as you want her to be".

Sorry for the long post, sorry for the OBVIOUS post. Just wanted to get people thinking about this variation again, especially some people who may not have seen any of the discussion before.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Remember when this thread was all the rage? Those were the days lol.

Anyways, I was about to post this in another thread and I feel that it's more appropriate to discuss here:

I've started rethinking my ethereal gameplan. When the variation was new and fresh, we were all attempting all of these different options and ended up realizing one thing: With Piercing and Ravenous, you almost always had 3 full stacks of meter to work with (because WTF would we even spend meter on? A breaker?) with Ethereal, you're eating that shit like the antidote is trapped inside. I WISH I had a bar, right?

It's because EX fade is SO good for escaping pressure. But when we play Ravenous or Piercing, how do we get out? We just use our other options lol.

So I had a heart to heart with myself. I had to answer the most important question to myself:

Why did I fall in love with Ethereal? Because it fixed a hole in my gameplay. It closed up one of my biggest weaknesses. In my case, that wasn't getting out of pressure or not being able to wakeup. It was being safe. Being able to hit confirm, being able to ANNOY. Yet as the game and community evolved, I slipped away from that. EX fade became my get out of jail free card and as such I OVER-RELIED on it.

Now I've revamped my stile to my original gameplan with the original perks and I suggest that everyone who was using EX fade defensively (because of the meter dependency) re-thinks it a bit. In my case, EX fade is now an offensive tool again. Utilizing the plus frames of EX fade is NOT about opening people up.

One thing a player around here said resonated with me and I can't remember who to cite it to unfortunately. It was "No one has to respect a single thing Mileena does, they just have to respect her options" and for me, that's what EX fade does. It creates a meta game that is actually in her favor.

Let's take something such as f14~ EX fade. It's at least +10, surely someone knows the exact frame number (I know I can get it from Akro's thread, but I'm being lazy right now for the sake of discussion). We COULD jail into standing 2 or d3 (honestly doesn't matter, but d3 offers more advantage on hit while being less negative) or we could be disrespectful and throw out f1 again. Not much risk on our part, honestly. f1 will break most armor at that point, it will definitely stop any attack option. If they block it, we get more meter AND they have to respect SEVERAL options: Let me give you just SOME examples.

d3 fade away (check into a free escape against many characters, for some you might have to delay your reappearance)
f1 throw (safe unless they neutral duck, but that's a read because they're opening themselves to another option)
f1 d3 fade away (there's a gap, but they opened themselves to another option)
f12 throw (because despite being -10, there's the possibility that you would continue the string)
f12 ex roll (50/50 boys) <-----assuming you have a bar
f12b4 (-6, let's go)
f23~ fade away (safe, good meter build but won't break an armor attempt)
f12b4~telekick (UNSAFE, but you can utilize it for respect AND if it hits, you get to force them to guess again)
f12b4~fade away (UNSAFE, but people too eager to poke this are getting hit by the telekick above)


of the last 2, both of those options are punishable but you have to pick one and you're gaining some BEAUTIFUL meter on a blocked f12b4.

But, that is never your only option. You CAN just take the bar to open someone up with a throw. If you're mixing up your post EX fade options, the other player WILL get antsy from conditioning. Also, any time you do a string that the other player can't punish clean (up to -9 against some characters, like Erron black) there's the POTENTIAL that you will EX fade through their followup.

I know this exact thought and mind frame was discussed ages ago, but we as a community seem to have let it go and honestly, I think it's better. You're going to build (and have) more meter to burn through and by the time it's all said and done, you won't HAVE TO use EX fade after your set progresses because the mind game is taxing. Couple in the teleport kick vortex on top and things are frustrating.

The improvements I'd like to see for ethereal with this mindset:

Faster startup on regular fade. It doesn't matter that it can be poked. I want it to be fast enough that the opponent doesn't have time to discern whether you spent a bar before trying to poke. Then the mind game levels up considerably. I'd say 17-18f would probably do the trick as 14f would be overkill, even without invincibility and with recovery) this way, it would pretty much still only be used to teleport AWAY. Non-ex fade in place or towards would still be a major risk due to recovery, but fade away would have utility (they have to guess whether you spend bar, because it's too late once the brain can process which you did).

Faster startup on teleport kick. This would also make it harder to determine whether she used fade/exfade/teleport kick. Ultimately, the teleport kick is still an unsafe option, but there are so many senseless empty frames where she can be poked out of it right now. Down from 20f to 15f-18f?

tl;dr - I don't think Ethereal is the defensive/keep away variation that we want it to be. It's the frustration/mental fatigue variation. The absolute epitome of "You don't have to respect anything she does, you just have to respect her options" ethereal mixups are pretty real when you consider the plus frames and the options that you have after every hit. Maybe this variation IS "as safe as you want her to be".

Sorry for the long post, sorry for the OBVIOUS post. Just wanted to get people thinking about this variation again, especially some people who may not have seen any of the discussion before.

You have read my mind, man. Well except for...

"No one has to respect a single thing Mileena does, they just have to respect her options"

...This wisely disguised bullshit. This is a contradiction wrapped in a wisdom box.

 

[Baconlord]

Remember when this thread was all the rage? Those were the days lol.

Anyways, I was about to post this in another thread and I feel that it's more appropriate to discuss here:

I've started rethinking my ethereal gameplan. When the variation was new and fresh, we were all attempting all of these different options and ended up realizing one thing: With Piercing and Ravenous, you almost always had 3 full stacks of meter to work with (because WTF would we even spend meter on? A breaker?) with Ethereal, you're eating that shit like the antidote is trapped inside. I WISH I had a bar, right?

It's because EX fade is SO good for escaping pressure. But when we play Ravenous or Piercing, how do we get out? We just use our other options lol.

So I had a heart to heart with myself. I had to answer the most important question to myself:

Why did I fall in love with Ethereal? Because it fixed a hole in my gameplay. It closed up one of my biggest weaknesses. In my case, that wasn't getting out of pressure or not being able to wakeup. It was being safe. Being able to hit confirm, being able to ANNOY. Yet as the game and community evolved, I slipped away from that. EX fade became my get out of jail free card and as such I OVER-RELIED on it.

Now I've revamped my stile to my original gameplan with the original perks and I suggest that everyone who was using EX fade defensively (because of the meter dependency) re-thinks it a bit. In my case, EX fade is now an offensive tool again. Utilizing the plus frames of EX fade is NOT about opening people up.

One thing a player around here said resonated with me and I can't remember who to cite it to unfortunately. It was "No one has to respect a single thing Mileena does, they just have to respect her options" and for me, that's what EX fade does. It creates a meta game that is actually in her favor.

Let's take something such as f14~ EX fade. It's at least +10, surely someone knows the exact frame number (I know I can get it from Akro's thread, but I'm being lazy right now for the sake of discussion). We COULD jail into standing 2 or d3 (honestly doesn't matter, but d3 offers more advantage on hit while being less negative) or we could be disrespectful and throw out f1 again. Not much risk on our part, honestly. f1 will break most armor at that point, it will definitely stop any attack option. If they block it, we get more meter AND they have to respect SEVERAL options: Let me give you just SOME examples.

d3 fade away (check into a free escape against many characters, for some you might have to delay your reappearance)
f1 throw (safe unless they neutral duck, but that's a read because they're opening themselves to another option)
f1 d3 fade away (there's a gap, but they opened themselves to another option)
f12 throw (because despite being -10, there's the possibility that you would continue the string)
f12 ex roll (50/50 boys) <-----assuming you have a bar
f12b4 (-6, let's go)
f23~ fade away (safe, good meter build but won't break an armor attempt)
f12b4~telekick (UNSAFE, but you can utilize it for respect AND if it hits, you get to force them to guess again)
f12b4~fade away (UNSAFE, but people too eager to poke this are getting hit by the telekick above)


of the last 2, both of those options are punishable but you have to pick one and you're gaining some BEAUTIFUL meter on a blocked f12b4.

But, that is never your only option. You CAN just take the bar to open someone up with a throw. If you're mixing up your post EX fade options, the other player WILL get antsy from conditioning. Also, any time you do a string that the other player can't punish clean (up to -9 against some characters, like Erron black) there's the POTENTIAL that you will EX fade through their followup.

I know this exact thought and mind frame was discussed ages ago, but we as a community seem to have let it go and honestly, I think it's better. You're going to build (and have) more meter to burn through and by the time it's all said and done, you won't HAVE TO use EX fade after your set progresses because the mind game is taxing. Couple in the teleport kick vortex on top and things are frustrating.

The improvements I'd like to see for ethereal with this mindset:

Faster startup on regular fade. It doesn't matter that it can be poked. I want it to be fast enough that the opponent doesn't have time to discern whether you spent a bar before trying to poke. Then the mind game levels up considerably. I'd say 17-18f would probably do the trick as 14f would be overkill, even without invincibility and with recovery) this way, it would pretty much still only be used to teleport AWAY. Non-ex fade in place or towards would still be a major risk due to recovery, but fade away would have utility (they have to guess whether you spend bar, because it's too late once the brain can process which you did).

Faster startup on teleport kick. This would also make it harder to determine whether she used fade/exfade/teleport kick. Ultimately, the teleport kick is still an unsafe option, but there are so many senseless empty frames where she can be poked out of it right now. Down from 20f to 15f-18f?

tl;dr - I don't think Ethereal is the defensive/keep away variation that we want it to be. It's the frustration/mental fatigue variation. The absolute epitome of "You don't have to respect anything she does, you just have to respect her options" ethereal mixups are pretty real when you consider the plus frames and the options that you have after every hit. Maybe this variation IS "as safe as you want her to be".

Sorry for the long post, sorry for the OBVIOUS post. Just wanted to get people thinking about this variation again, especially some people who may not have seen any of the discussion before.

Finally someone else realizes how good ex fade is as an offensive tool.

 

[Jolt]

You have read my mind, man. Well except for...

...This wisely disguised bullshit. This is a contradiction wrapped in a wisdom box.

LOL that's what I thought at the same time too. But I think it more specifically referred to certain members of the cast. I'm taking it a little out of context. They were saying that her individual moves, being slightly unsafe, her not being able to press buttons after, etc. were THEORETICALLY unsafe, but this silly (Soap bar in my mouth!) can almost always do a risky roll or telekick at the end of something otherwise safe/ALREADY unsafe that could make all the difference and THAT is what you have to respect.

A possible telekick after 21 instead of 21u4. Is the telekick unsafe? Yeah, but it will beat your backdash, it will dodge your armor (not always the case, but often). It's a read that ultimately in the long run SHOULD be respected because of what she gets from it.

Best example, honestly? f12 being -10 but you can almost always throw after because of the fear of f12b4/f12~EX roll mixup

and let's not start with the old trick of being slightly negative (where they can't truly punish you and it's tight) and then rolling to low profile a high. Essentially FORCING them to attack with a mid (which will lose to EX roll) or block to respect the possibility that you'll roll like a maniac

 

[ZeroEffect]

Yeah, this is why I think Ethereal is good, but also why i think it's a variation that bases a lot of it's success on theory.
What you described is what a Mileena player is thinking about, in a competitive set, in a SHORT competitive set. Want to know what the other guy is thinking? "Ok I'm gonna attack/defend here". The simplicity of their decisions compared to ours makes it a mindgame that's not quite easy as it sounds on paper.

You gotta ask yourself as I have...
"Will I get a chance to make them fear my options?" (If YES... then)
"Will I be able to get to Stage 2 or 3 of my mindgames before they guess right?" (Remember, short set. Likely against stronger offensive tools.)
"If I do guess wrong, can I make up ground?" (Are you cornered? Did you break? Are you within the opponent's ideal range?)
"If I run low on meter, can I build it back in time to have my strongest options again?" (No overhead, less pressure escape, etc)

If the person does ONE thing to disrupt your mindgame, you have to change up drastically. I don't mean to come across as down on this variation as I do still think it's undervalued in some ways. But this requires a TON of anti-character to use to it's capacity, where Ravenous/Piercing don't.

 

[TheGabStandard]

As good as Ethereal is it is probably the variation where you have to do the most amount of homework and studying against the roster. That of course is not a bad thing but the summaries by @MyronJ @ZeroEffect and my own personal thoughts tell me this

 

[SeanTheGaymer]

So I love this combo but anyone help out with some different ones! Basically bnb with good damage!