Match-Up Discussion - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage Matchup Thread

[Name v.5.0]

I usually agree with you but....Dave your answers to my points made 0 sense.
I am not sure that you know Cage at all at this point. You should just check the countless post or videos that shows his problems before answering. A few points:

J1 doesn't hit crouching opponents if not at a perfect angle, how can you consider it decent? Not only me, but even Dizzy and the other players say that his jumping attacks suck...don't write nonsense

You said that I consider Cage f3 slow when I always said it is a great move, 11f is not slow for this kind of move. Cage normals are slow in general because he doesn't have a 7 frame move and his S1 is 9 frames, that's why he is slow. f3 has nothing to do with that...

1, 114, S4, etc. are bad normals? I should just play with f3 d4 and f24? lol what are you talking about. His whiffing problems are very serious.

You don't have to teach me what is an anti air. I know that thanks, it doesn't change the fact that his options suck and he is free to many jump ins.

His throw leaves Cage at 0 on hit. It is shitty anywhere on the screen I don't know why you think it is better in the corner

I just need to add to this.

The risk of trying to anti air with 2, or uppercut is ridiculous. I've spent hours trying to perfect what normal to use to anti air depending on distance. Guess what, it's also character dependent, and attack dependent. Guess what else DAVE...The risk completely out weighs the reward. It's not even close to a smart idea to anti air with Johnny.

Good strings/normals, 114 is 0 on block, does 2.75% chip, and has good stun for possibly bringing out clones, or firing off a clone attack.
11 is 0 on block and forces opponents to do a quick down block to avoid a mixup. That's something you can exploit!
12 is an armor breaking attack that leaves you +2. Good for Johnny who can then tick throw, and makes his D1 6 frames.
333 is safe and 3% chip. SD Johnny uses it for chip and mind games when using EX Mimic Rising Shadow
B343 is safe and %3.75 chip. fantastic way to add on damage after a nut punch when you have no clones, meter, or stamina
113, Johnny's only low...

F24/D4 is a 50/50. WE HAVE A 50/50 GUYS. TOP TIER HERE WE FUCKING COME!!!!

 

[Dizzy]

For the record @General M2Dave I actually think JC njp is good. Definitely above average. Not on the level of quan, raiden, takeda, etc but a cut above the rest. It just looks really stupid but the hit box is much bigger than the graphic looks like.

 

[M2Dave]

That is the dumbest, most hyperbolic summation that anyone could have about what he said.

Is it really? He said the following on the previous page.

I would buff df2 Ex to + 15 on block. Obviously nobody will agree but if non pressure characters get guaranteed pressure, I don't see why Johnny shouldn't.

This would give him 30%+ blockstrings, and that is fair. Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Tanya, Quan and Shinnok can suck a dick.

Aside from Liu Kang, none of those characters even get 30% of chip damage on block strings. He is more or less advocating block infinite combos.

For the record @General M2Dave I actually think JC njp is good. Definitely above average. Not on the level of quan, raiden, takeda, etc but a cut above the rest. It just looks really stupid but the hit box is much bigger than the graphic looks like.

I agree.

I think you should use A-List, especially if the next patch normalizes the top tier characters. A-List plays very similar to Mortal Kombat 9 Johnny Cage with superior fireball recovery.

 

[Dizzy]

Is it really?





I agree.

I think you should use A-List, especially if the next patch normalizes the top tier characters. A-List plays very similar to Mortal Kombat 9 Johnny Cage with superior fireball recovery.

I'll probably use him in some upcoming GBS, not today though. I've played him as an alt but he's pretty rusty. I have to spend some time on the execution side of things. Some of his cancels, particularly off 113, is pretty tight and will require some practice.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Is it really?

"Your argument is basically "Cage has no block infinite combo. He is average at best." LOL. I genuinely have nothing else to say."

The way you wrote it makes it seem like you actually think the guy was bitching about not having a block infinite. So yes...you cant shake your head disgust over something that didnt happen. That's just creating drama

 

[rafaw]

I'll probably use him in some upcoming GBS, not today though. I've played him as an alt but he's pretty rusty. I have to spend some time on the execution side of things. Some of his cancels, particularly off 113, is pretty tight and will require some practice.

I would love to see you play JC again!! He got a move with your name man
113skrc is a bit hard in the beginning but you will get it.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Cage is not too bad examined individually, he is bad compared to the others....his best tool is his pressure but in that department he is still much inferior to Lao, Tanya, Liu Kang, Shinnok (and this should be his best tool).
I can do everything with A-List and I'm well aware of his cancel pressure. You are right in saying that if ex forceball was more advantageous he might have semi block infinites....it sound ridicolous but would that be wrong in a game where other characters have it already?

You can also notice that he is extremely weak in many important areas:

useless air punches
bad anti airs
slow normals
an incredible number of whiffing normals
shitty njp
useless uppercut
no 50-50
shitty mobility
very bad throw

My conclusion is that he is average in what he does best and really bad in all the other stuff....and this is only talking about A-List. That said, there are a lot of optimistic guys here so I might be wrong.

* If they don't buff him and nerf all the top tiers it's still fine for me.
** F3 is not the longest mid attack, Cassie b1 has the same startup and better range.

Can we get gameplay of yours bc i can vouch for phosferrax and xinok being good but i dont think you know what youre talking about

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

And @GGA Dizzy please do bring out your johnny that would be gdlk

 

[Asodimazze]

Can we get gameplay of yours bc i can vouch for phosferrax and xinok being good but i dont think you know what youre talking about

If you are on EU PSN add me, my ID is asodimazze.
I may whine a lot in this forum (lol) but whoever played me knows that I know what I'm talking about....

 

[Skellington]

I am just posting to say that I too am excited to see Dizzy's Cage in MKX

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

If you are on EU PSN add me, my ID is asodimazze.
I may whine a lot in this forum (lol) but whoever played me knows that I know what I'm talking about....

im xbone :[ but yh you should stream and link me

 

[Kompetitor]

I just need to add to this.

The risk of trying to anti air with 2, or uppercut is ridiculous. I've spent hours trying to perfect what normal to use to anti air depending on distance. Guess what, it's also character dependent, and attack dependent. Guess what else DAVE...The risk completely out weighs the reward. It's not even close to a smart idea to anti air with Johnny.

Good strings/normals, 114 is 0 on block, does 2.75% chip, and has good stun for possibly bringing out clones, or firing off a clone attack.
11 is 0 on block and forces opponents to do a quick down block to avoid a mixup. That's something you can exploit!
12 is an armor breaking attack that leaves you +2. Good for Johnny who can then tick throw, and makes his D1 6 frames.
333 is safe and 3% chip. SD Johnny uses it for chip and mind games when using EX Mimic Rising Shadow
B343 is safe and %3.75 chip. fantastic way to add on damage after a nut punch when you have no clones, meter, or stamina
113, Johnny's only low...

F24/D4 is a 50/50. WE HAVE A 50/50 GUYS. TOP TIER HERE WE FUCKING COME!!!!

would you agree best option to anti air would be to just d4 to low profile and punish? cuz i cannot hit with his standing 2 for the life of me

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

would you agree best option to anti air would be to just d4 to low profile and punish? cuz i cannot hit with his standing 2 for the life of me

or wait and nutpunch ex

 

[Asodimazze]

im xbone :[ but yh you should stream and link me

I don't think I'll stream, but if anyone wants to play a FT5-FT10 against me I'll try to record it and upload the videos.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

I don't think I'll stream, but if anyone wants to play a FT5-FT10 against me I'll try to record it and upload the videos.

i didnt know you could record play phosferrax hes a great player and he knows johnny well

 

[IrishMantis]

Can we get gameplay of yours bc i can vouch for phosferrax and xinok being good but i dont think you know what youre talking about

2 thing Aso downplays JC so I disagree a lot with what he saids but he also strikes good points with the whiffing

Even though I disagree he is one of the better players I have ever played in this game

 

[Asodimazze]

i didnt know you could record play phosferrax hes a great player and he knows johnny well

I added him but looks like he is not at home for a week...we'll probably play soon anyway.

 

[Name v.5.0]

would you agree best option to anti air would be to just d4 to low profile and punish? cuz i cannot hit with his standing 2 for the life of me

Yes and no. You dont want to try and low profile characters like Sub Zero or Sonya...they'll hit you anyway. Dashing forward or backward is an option depending on the distance to your opponent. A well timed back dash = punish or pressure.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

2 thing Aso downplays JC so I disagree a lot with what he saids but he also strikes good points with the whiffing

Even though I disagree he is one of the better players I have ever played in this game

See idk if you are good (no offense) so i cant take your word but i agree on the whiffing that shit pisses me off

 

[IrishMantis]

See idk if you are good (no offense) so i cant take your word but i agree on the whiffing that shit pisses me off

Well hopefully you can judge on Saturday from the Belfast tourney

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Well hopefully you can judge on Saturday from the Belfast tourney

youre from ireland? do u have a spare ps4 pad u could bring? Im on xbox an dont wanna rely on queens having spare pads + what part are u from

 

[DrFolmer]

Kitana fucks me over, when I play the matchup it's like a 1-10 for me. I haven't spend time with Stunt Double - would this variation be better for the matchup? Kitana is just stupid - people whine about weak zoners in MKX but she's just as annoying as she was in MK9. Hate her stupid ass fans that seemingly beat every standing projectile perhaps with the exception of Shinnok or Kano, I hate the fact she can convert of basically everything, even full screen air fans. I hate her stupid ass damage.

Seriously though, the biggest struggle is actually the damage reward for opening up the opponent. Kitana can probably get 26-30 from anywhere on the screen (more if she's closer) while Johnny gets an EX kick sending her fullscreen again. I seemingly can't beat her standard wakeups when I have sent her fullscreen because I have to run all the way to her once again. And when I respect the wake up I just get blown up by an X-ray or some shit or she just jumps away like a little bitch.

I should probably just f3 if she doesnt armor the wakeup due to it's fast advancing nature. I'm too used to f2 as my bnb. The fact that she seemingly has infinite meter as well doesn't help shit. Bear in mind this is the online experience, so everything about Kitana that is unsafe ends up being a Liu Kang Dash cancel infinite.

Normally I wouldnt rage like this, but when 9/10 players online nowadays are Kitana mains (thanks Sonic Fox) it just sucks maximum dick.
Kitana mains make me wanna pick up BS shinnok

Share your knowledge with a scrub like me, mates

 

[Name v.5.0]

Kotal and Tanya.

Or more accurately Sun God and Kobu Jutsu.

Anyone else feel like these 2 character's normals just seem to beat all of Johnny's? I swear to christ it's like their moves become active first even if I throw my moves out before they do.

For instance, With Kotal, at the beginning of a round, you may as well just block with Johnny against Sun God. All his normal attacks will beat yours. You cant back dash or jump back. Jumping forward is just as idiotic. So you stand there and block. I feel like I get stuffed over and over.

112 (B1,2,2? I forget the input. It ends with an overhead) is -10 on block and has a bit of block stun making it ridiculous to punish with anything other than a D1, even offline. Take away that weird block stun and he would eat shit for attempting it. B1,4~whatever is armor attack sensitive, but you cant just constantly be blowing meter. You can cross him over if he tries any string into DB2 (especially useful against B1~DB2), but if he hit confirms and does DF1, he can anti air the piss out of you on reaction.

He out footsies JC, and he out pokes JC and now that he can more easily charge up, his tick throws are scary as fuck. As SDJC I cant take any risk in pulling out mimics. D4 works...sorta, I guess...I really only feel safe with mimics out at full screen where I can manage him. Even then his Ji1 is so fucking good, it's a risk to attempt to zone a bit.


Kobu's not nearly as bad in my mind. She's manageable until she's right in your face. It's just getting out of her stagger strings that bothers me. I know the frames, but I swear I try to poke out and get stuffed. This just may be online being garbage, but that bitch just chip chip chips or tears me apart.


There's more, I just dont feel like writing a book. Any of you guys have some useful tactics against these 2 variations?

 

[IrishMantis]

Kotal and Tanya.

Or more accurately Sun God and Kobu Jutsu.

Anyone else feel like these 2 character's normals just seem to beat all of Johnny's? I swear to christ it's like their moves become active first even if I throw my moves out before they do.

For instance, With Kotal, at the beginning of a round, you may as well just block with Johnny against Sun God. All his normal attacks will beat yours. You cant back dash or jump back. Jumping forward is just as idiotic. So you stand there and block. I feel like I get stuffed over and over.

112 (B1,2,2? I forget the input. It ends with an overhead) is -10 on block and has a bit of block stun making it ridiculous to punish with anything other than a D1, even offline. Take away that weird block stun and he would eat shit for attempting it. B1,4~whatever is armor attack sensitive, but you cant just constantly be blowing meter. You can cross him over if he tries any string into DB2 (especially useful against B1~DB2), but if he hit confirms and does DF1, he can anti air the piss out of you on reaction.

He out footsies JC, and he out pokes JC and now that he can more easily charge up, his tick throws are scary as fuck. As SDJC I cant take any risk in pulling out mimics. D4 works...sorta, I guess...I really only feel safe with mimics out at full screen where I can manage him. Even then his Ji1 is so fucking good, it's a risk to attempt to zone a bit.


Kobu's not nearly as bad in my mind. She's manageable until she's right in your face. It's just getting out of her stagger strings that bothers me. I know the frames, but I swear I try to poke out and get stuffed. This just may be online being garbage, but that bitch just chip chip chips or tears me apart.


There's more, I just dont feel like writing a book. Any of you guys have some useful tactics against these 2 variations?

100% Tanya

 

[Name v.5.0]

100% Tanya

You love fighting her too huh?