Match-Up Discussion - Goro Goro MU Discussion Thread

[juicepouch]

Didnt know you played Shinnok thanks for the info though.

I usually play DF so i may have to heavily put some time into TF for this maychup

DF is worthless in this mu as it stands right now lol

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

She can parry EX PW with regular parry unless something has changed. Haven't played a set against a Sonya in a month or so.

That's kind of my dilemma too, I fight one so rarely I don't even know what she does half the time, I kind of thought that about the parry just was not sure, when you are in the corner you have to be very careful against that bitch.

 

[chief713]

That's kind of my dilemma too, I fight one so rarely I don't even know what she does half the time, I kind of thought that about the parry just was not sure, when you are in the corner you have to be very careful against that bitch.

Yea, she can do military stance in a block string, then cancel it and blow up your armor attempt with parry. Should've mentioned that. Most Sonya's don't do it but it is something to think about.

 

[Mourneblade]

DF is worthless in this mu as it stands right now lol

DF is worthless in general lol

 

[juicepouch]

How do you fight Lao? Who knows this matchup? How do I deal with his pressure?

 

[BunLantern]

Has anyone fought a decent Stunt Double cage since the patch? I feel like this might be the only match up that got worse for Goro since the patch. He out damages Goro, out pressures Goro, spends less meter than Goro, and out zones Goro. Did they make his strings better or something?

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Has anyone fought a decent Stunt Double cage since the patch? I feel like this might be the only match up that got worse for Goro since the patch. He out damages Goro, out pressures Goro, spends less meter than Goro, and out zones Goro. Did they make his strings better or something?

I did.

The struggle is fucking real.

The match-up didn't get worse - It's just getting more exposed. Stunt Double Johnny was always overlooked. If he has a mimic out, you must EX PW. You can't punish with anything else because otherwise the mimic will hit you out of it.

Also, on EX Anti-Air mimic, don't forget to stand block the second hit or else get overheaded into 30%.

 

[Metzos]

How do you fight Lao? Who knows this matchup? How do I deal with his pressure?

Actually KL is a bit easier after the patch. You can AA properly now, especially during cross-ups. Up close, Goro is superior than him, in terms of down pokes and normals in general. B121 and b12u2 strings, beat everything he does after a blocked regular hat spin, even jump outs if you are fast enough. Only thing to worry about is ex spins if he has meter. SG is also extremely useful when up close. Whenever KL is at even -3f, he MUST respect the SG. Once he does that, you can mix it up from there.

At midscreen, f3 is good cause of the active frames, safeness and range. It can even catch jumps.

Both KW and Tigrar cannot throw ground pounds and fireballs, since he can easily punish them with a full combo from fullscreen with dive kick. But that doesnt mean anything, just dont throw them, or throw them out very occasionaly.

All in all i believe this MU requires a lot of patience from Goro, but its winnable if you play it right. Just walk your way towards him and make him do risky stuff to get out of pressure and out of the corner. U1/u2 is also really good against his teleport. Imo Goro is the one MU for KL where the KL player cannot push buttons like crazy, since Goro can punish him heavily for that.

 

[Metzos]

Jokes aside, i believe DF is probably the best variation to deal against KL.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Jokes aside, i believe DF is probably the best variation to deal against KL.

I agree 100%

 

[Alright RyRy]

Has anyone fought a decent Stunt Double cage since the patch? I feel like this might be the only match up that got worse for Goro since the patch. He out damages Goro, out pressures Goro, spends less meter than Goro, and out zones Goro. Did they make his strings better or something?

I have been fighting alot against DJA Homies alot and I would say it's pretty even. Maybe 6-4 Cage, There are holes in the strings where you can armor through.

Johnny may have the worst air normals in the game, so if a JC player ever crosses you up you have no reason do D1, or U1/2 if you feel like you can react that fast.

I really enjoy this matchup. I feel it's easier than A List.

 

[Vintagesoul]

Actually KL is a bit easier after the patch. You can AA properly now, especially during cross-ups. Up close, Goro is superior than him, in terms of down pokes and normals in general. B121 and b12u2 strings, beat everything he does after a blocked regular hat spin, even jump outs if you are fast enough. Only thing to worry about is ex spins if he has meter. SG is also extremely useful when up close. Whenever KL is at even -3f, he MUST respect the SG. Once he does that, you can mix it up from there.

At midscreen, f3 is good cause of the active frames, safeness and range. It can even catch jumps.

Both KW and Tigrar cannot throw ground pounds and fireballs, since he can easily punish them with a full combo from fullscreen with dive kick. But that doesnt mean anything, just dont throw them, or throw them out very occasionaly.

All in all i believe this MU requires a lot of patience from Goro, but its winnable if you play it right. Just walk your way towards him and make him do risky stuff to get out of pressure and out of the corner. U1/u2 is also really good against his teleport. Imo Goro is the one MU for KL where the KL player cannot push buttons like crazy, since Goro can punish him heavily for that.

Good shit using B1 after blocking hat spin. I did not know this and will definitely incorporate this.

However, I have to disagree with what you said about Tigrar and Flameballs in this match up. FB is actually very very good in this match up. At closer distances, Lao can't react with a jump fast enough to clear the FB. At further distances, Goro recovers fast enough from the FB to block the dive kick. There's only a very specific distance where Lao can react to FB with a jump that goes high enough to clear the FB, and leaves enough time for dive kick to hit. As long as the TF player is careful enough not to throw FBs at this distance, TF has complete control of the screen in this match up.

In fact, I feel that between the close range dominance of low pokes+SG+Ex PW and the overall screen control of FB, TF actually has an advantage against Tempest Lao (insert laugh track from majority of TYM). Buzzsaw is probably another story, but I haven't played enough Buzzsaws to say for sure.

 

[RyuKazuya]

How do you fight Lao? Who knows this matchup? How do I deal with his pressure?

Well in this case i usually put the pad down and switch the tv off

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Jokes aside, i believe DF is probably the best variation to deal against KL.

I agree 100%

Why?

 

[chief713]

Why?

I don't know their reasoning, but for me, Lao gets a lot of mileage out of ji.P. EX fang spin is a pretty hard counter to that since you can routinely get 25%+ on reaction to a jump in. Once you discourage him into playing a more grounded game, things aren't so bad for Goro because of the reasons Metzos described. And since zoning is risky/difficult because of Lao's teleport and dive kick, you're not really losing much by not having KW's ground pound or TF's flame ball.

 

[juicepouch]

Good shit, I'm going to have to dust off my DF for ol' Lao then

 

[Metzos]

Good shit using B1 after blocking hat spin. I did not know this and will definitely incorporate this.

However, I have to disagree with what you said about Tigrar and Flameballs in this match up. FB is actually very very good in this match up. At closer distances, Lao can't react with a jump fast enough to clear the FB. At further distances, Goro recovers fast enough from the FB to block the dive kick. There's only a very specific distance where Lao can react to FB with a jump that goes high enough to clear the FB, and leaves enough time for dive kick to hit. As long as the TF player is careful enough not to throw FBs at this distance, TF has complete control of the screen in this match up.

In fact, I feel that between the close range dominance of low pokes+SG+Ex PW and the overall screen control of FB, TF actually has an advantage against Tempest Lao (insert laugh track from majority of TYM). Buzzsaw is probably another story, but I haven't played enough Buzzsaws to say for sure.

I have tried TF against KL and it didnt go well. Maybe because i dont play the current variation tbh, so i m not an expert at that. Thing is, you cant stop KL from getting to that specific distance in order for him to punish anything TF Goro will do from that current distance. Not to mention the gaps TF has in his string cancels. I dont know, like i said, maybe its just me but i feel alot more confortable with DF in the particular MU. Perhaps its because i m used playing patiently in fgs in general.

 

[Vintagesoul]

I have tried TF against KL and it didnt go well. Maybe because i dont play the current variation tbh, so i m not an expert at that. Thing is, you cant stop KL from getting to that specific distance in order for him to punish anything TF Goro will do from that current distance. Not to mention the gaps TF has in his string cancels. I dont know, like i said, maybe its just me but i feel alot more confortable with DF in the particular MU. Perhaps its because i m used playing patiently in fgs in general.

The stuff I posted really isn't hard to test.

Just record a TF Goro doing Flameball and blocking, then try to jump over the Flameball with Lao and dive kicking Goro. You'll be surprised by the results.

Anyway, I'm just sharing my experience. Maybe I just play shitty Laos, but I've yet to meet a Tempest Lao who makes me feel "this match up is tough". In fact I tend to maul them.

Scorpion, though, is a lot harder for Tigrar, and I'm seriously considering learning DF for the match up.

 

[Espio]

I used to co-main Stunt Double Johnny Cage and his fixes improved his mids and forward 3,4 is now safe on block in SD and Fisitcuffs, but it's low damage on hit.

Tigrar shouldn't be getting outzoned by Stunt Double Cage. Their projectiles are the same damage wise, but Goro's fireball is faster. And if he's using stunt double mimics to zone there's several things that come with that: There's a notable cool down on mimics after they've been used up and if he's using them for zoning, he cannot use them for pressure or combo damage. He can use them for a variety of things, but he has to make a choice because he cannot do it all and he only gets two before cooldown. He can hold on to one mimic while the cooldown resets, but then he's not using his last one and not playing his game with them.

But even if he did "outzone" Goro, his zoning shouldn't keep anyone out at all.

Johnny Cage is one of the only characters with a hitbox so massive that ex fireball blasts from Goro actually hit him crouch blocking, which is definitely a notable nuance. Goro's projectiles do slightly more chip than his as well.

You can armor in the ex nut punch gap to launch him for full combo as well so ex nut punch is always unsafe no matter what if Goro has a bar.


Johnny's down 4 is really good on whiff/low profile so he can check Goro well, but you can definitely get around it and your pokes are definitely comparable up close especially considered his down 1 and down 3. Our down 4 isn't as good, but it's definitely still effective against checking Cage's advances too and getting in to get our shenanigans started.

Cage can pressure Goro really well, but it's not like the reverse isn't true, especially on knockdown where his wake ups are unsafe for the most part or lead to no damage. Ex nut punch as I mentioned above is risky versus Goro.


The match up is 5-5 from my experience playing both characters and against both. It got less hard for Cage cause he can't be punished by command grab for doing forward 3,4. Cage's mids NEVER whiffed on Goro anyway because of Goro's hitbox the same way Goro's fireballs were always way more effective against Cage because of his massive hitbox.

So whatever changes Cage got didn't do much of anything for the Stunt Double/Tigrar Fury mu or against Goro in general actually.

 

[BunLantern]

So instead of throwing out numbers I figured I'd see if we could all agree on Goro's good, bad and even match ups. That way we don't get caught up with what's a 4-6 and what's a 3-7. Once we all agree on the bad match ups we could start looking at good ways to deal with them. My list is from TF perspective, if someone who mains KW and DF want to throw out their lists that would help to see if there's any major differences. I don't have the necessary match up experience to speak outside of TF.

Even Match Ups
Jason- All variations
Jax- All variations
Sub- Cryo/GM
Mileena- Piercing/Rav (haven't played enough Ethereal Mileenas to give an opinion)
Kung Jin- Bojitsu (haven't played enough Shaolin or Ancestral to give an opinion)
Predator- Hunter/Warrior
Kano- All variations
Johnny Cage- All variations (on the fence about Stunt Double being a little shitty for Goro)
Erron Black- Outlaw (haven't played GS or MM enough to give an opinion)
Kotal Kahn- All variations
D'vorah- All variations


Losing Match Ups
Kung Lao- Tempest/Buzzsaw (have never played against Hat Trick in my life)
Sonya- Covert Ops (haven't played Demo or SF enough to give an opinion)
Kitana- All variations
Scorpion- Inferno/Hellfire (Haven't played against enough Ninjutsu to give an opinion)
Sub- Unbreakable
Takeda- Shirai Ryu (Haven't played Lasher or Ronin enough to give an opinion)
Jacqui- Full Auto (Haven't played Shotgun or High Tech enough to give an opinion)
Tanya- Fuck her (Fuck her)
Predator- HQT
Shinnok- Imposter/BS (Haven't played enough Necro's to give an opinion)
Liu Kang- Flame Fist/Dragon Fire (Haven't played enough Dualists to give an opinion)
Ermac- MOS (what other 2 variations?)
Quan Chi- Summoner/Sorcerer (Haven't played enough Warlocks to give an opinion)

Not on the list
Kenshi, Cassie, Reptile, F/T, Raiden, and Tremor (Haven't played these guys enough or the patch made me rethink what I thought I knew)

Happy to explain my thoughts on any of these. Curious to see if you guys have Goro winning any match up.

 

[Espio]

Goro beats Piercing/Ravenous Mileena. He also beats Lackey Ferra/Torr, Balanced Kenshi, and Relentless Jason in my opinion. I've expounded on a couple of these in this thread, things have gotten even better for him versus pretty much all of them too especially Jason and Mileena.

Mileena sucks pretty bad versus Goro, she cannot deal with heavy pressure or the fact that forward 3 is so oppressive in footsies against her. Goro as a character counters her so it's applicable across all variations.


For the sake of brevity I'll save my list of even/losing mus and just answer that one question.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I think Goro goes even with Ronin and either even with or beats Balanced Kenshi. I think Hollywood Cassi is 5-5

 

[Vintagesoul]

Yeah, I think TF beats balanced too. You stand block one telefury/over head slash and just keep chucking flameballs and kenshi is forced to come in or lose on trades.

Pretty sad for kenshi.

I believe Goro also goes even at worst with Ermac. Play cautiously until you block a soul ball then go wild. Ermac's mix ups are risky and teleports are yolo. Teleports aside, his mobility is very bad. Like Mileena, he can't really contest f3. I don't see Goro losing this at all.

 

[BunLantern]

Yeah, I think TF beats balanced too. You stand block one telefury/over head slash and just keep chucking flameballs and kenshi is forced to come in or lose on trades.

Pretty sad for kenshi.

I believe Goro also goes even at worst with Ermac. Play cautiously until you block a soul ball then go wild. Ermac's mix ups are risky and teleports are yolo. Teleports aside, his mobility is very bad. Like Mileena, he can't really contest f3. I don't see Goro losing this at all.

Couldn't Kenshi just reflect the fireballs after a whiffed/blocked telefury/slash, or does he not have enough time? Don't know shit about this match up as Kenshi is as rare to fight as Goro.

As for Ermac, I feel like his teleport, higher damage output and invisibility mind games give him an edge. I wouldn't call it an awful match up for Goro but I'm fairly confident he has more tools than TF Goro to win this match up.

 

[Vigilante24]

Can someone help me out with Cyber Kano MU plz? I literally just got knifed to death, EX Knives actually stop EX Punch Walk, fireballs aren't helping me at all, and anti-aired for days sending me back to full screen. Once I do finally get in tho (usually in the corner) its a wrap but getting in is the problem. I literally cannot catch this character, id rather fight a freakin Kitana just simply because I can duck her projectile smh. I have to switch to Jax just to do anything. Fast mid knives plz!

Im maining Tigrar Goro as my secondary character. I feel so much more comfortable with the tools Tigrar has to offer over the other 2 variations.