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Match-Up Discussion - Goro Goro MU Discussion Thread

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Liu Kang absolutely slaughters me in DF, how do I deal with his seemingly gapless pressure and zoning?
Ok believe it or not goro in tf i dont know if thats the one you play(i play all so) but goro gos 5-5 with dragons fire as he can counter zone, and if goro has bar kang needs to hold that, or he risks alot
 

ScorpXL

Goro?
Hey, does anyone have any advice for fighting Summoner Quan Chi? I just don't know how to deal with him and I always get caught by his low bat/overhead sword mixup. I play all 3 variations, but I mainly use DF. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. :)
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Hey, does anyone have any advice for fighting Summoner Quan Chi? I just don't know how to deal with him and I always get caught by his low bat/overhead sword mixup. I play all 3 variations, but I mainly use DF. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. :)
PLay tigrar, and if you get him in the corner, he cant really do anything especially if he doesnt know the mu, so just keep doing moves into firebreath.
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
Really curious on what you guys think. I know we don't really talk about MU #s but does anyone feel where Goro beats any other character outright. No matter the variation.

meaning Goro TF or Goro DF beats Liu Kang etc...
 
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BBSKVLLZ

Noob
Really curious on what you guys thing. I know we don't really talk about MU #s but does anything feel where Goro beats any other character outright. No matter the variation.

meaning Goro TF or Goro DF beats Liu Kang etc...
Kuatan Warrior dominates Mileena imo- ground pound after command grab stuffs wakeup roll and teleport, chest lunge punishes blocked tele kick before the air projectiles even come out, blocked roll is full combo punishable. Ex cartwheel does break armor, but it is still punishable on block and the matchup it feels pretty free overall
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
Kuatan Warrior dominates Mileena imo- ground pound after command grab stuffs wakeup roll and teleport, chest lunge punishes blocked tele kick before the air projectiles even come out, blocked roll is full combo punishable. Ex cartwheel does break armor, but it is still punishable on block and the matchup it feels pretty free overall
I completely disagree, Piercing Mileena is the only one I had experience against, but Goro has 0 options vs B12, Mileenas D3 after B12 shutdown Goro completely, she can D3 and then block a reversal EX Punchwalk.

I would never go KW in this match-up at all simply because of the telekick. Chest Lunge isn't really that important over DF or TF imo. Goro gets a good meterless punish with B1 and netting 35% meterless. Mileena can low profile Goros F3.

I cannot speak on the other 2 variations of Mileena since I honestly do not ever remember plaything them. All and all I feel like Goro loses against Mileena 6-4 or 7-3.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Really curious on what you guys think. I know we don't really talk about MU #s but does anyone feel where Goro beats any other character outright. No matter the variation.

meaning Goro TF or Goro DF beats Liu Kang etc...
Erron black, shinnok(imposter), dvorah swarmqueen, tanya, quanchi, (These are some mus i think goro dominates or does well in, also this has come from playing people who know these characters) Also goro tf goes 5-5 with dragons fire
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Really curious on what you guys think. I know we don't really talk about MU #s but does anyone feel where Goro beats any other character outright. No matter the variation.

meaning Goro TF or Goro DF beats Liu Kang etc...
Atm, i think he wins against Cassie, EB, Tanya, QC, D'vorah, Ermac, Raiden, SZ, Kenshi and probably Mileena and Tremor. Dunno about the other KP2 characters, but i really believe he wins against Triborg with the exception of Smoke (cause he has better neutral game than the other three variations, so it might be a 5-5).

All in all, almost all of his MU's, at the current state of the game, are either 5-5s and 6-4s/4-6s, with the exception of HQT Predator and Johnny Cage (all variations), those two MU's are 7-3 in favor of HQT Predator and JC for sure.

EDIT: Forgot Reptile, i believe Goro wins against him as well.
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
Atm, i think he wins against Cassie, EB, Tanya, QC, D'vorah, Ermac, Raiden, SZ, Kenshi and probably Mileena and Tremor. Dunno about the other KP2 characters, but i really believe he wins against Triborg with the exception of Smoke (cause he has better neutral game than the other three variations, so it might be a 5-5).

All in all, almost all of his MU's, at the current state of the game, are either 5-5s and 6-4s/4-6s, with the exception of HQT Predator and Johnny Cage (all variations), those two MU's are 7-3 in favor of HQT Predator and JC for sure.

EDIT: Forgot Reptile, i believe Goro wins against him as well.
I pretty much agree with everything, but Goro does not beat reptile imo
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Why would Cage 7-3 Goro when he:

A. Cannot keep Goro out.
B. Is Vulnerable to oki just as much if not more than most characters.
C. Goro does great against Jax, D'Vorah and other pressure characters as well as characters with low profiling pokes like Cassie Cage for example.


Even if it was "losing" per se, 4-6 would at least be somewhat more grounded in reason especially if D'vorah "loses" to Goro.


HQT Predator would make more credible sense being labelled as such BUT I have not grinded it enough to say for certain what it truly is. All I can really say is that I'd say it's safe to wager HQT wins the match up at the moment. At least when you do catch him you can abuse his weaknesses on knockdown, oki and even abuse back 1,2,1 on him and it armor breaks since his wake up armor is slow as shit.


As for who I think Goro CURRENTLY beats?

6-4 ish: Cassie Cage, Ermac, Tanya, Cyber Sub-Zero, Smoke, Kenshi, Jason.

I need more time with the new and improved Mileena, but I would not be surprised if she still lost to Goro. Kitana got even more interesting as well, they both got buffed in ways that counter each other's advantages over one another so I'd assume things have remained the same and in balance. Assassin I think does slightly better in general though not enough to change any numbers.


I think most of his 5-5's stayed the same due to them also being buffed or receiving light nerfs : i.e. RS/ASS Kitana, GM Sub-Zero, SQ D'Vorah, Gen Jax, etc.

He may have more or less down the line, but I feel like most of his match ups are extremely balanced from the ones I've played or experimented with thus far.
 
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Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Why would Cage 7-3 Goro when he:

A. Cannot keep Goro out.
B. Is Vulnerable to oki just as much if not more than most characters.
C. Goro does great against Jax, D'Vorah and other pressure characters as well as characters with low profiling pokes like Cassie Cage for example.


Even if it was "losing" per se, 4-6 would at least be somewhat more grounded in reason especially if D'vorah "loses" to Goro.


HQT Predator would make more credible sense being labelled as such BUT I have not grinded it enough to say for certain what it truly is. All I can really say is that I'd say it's safe to wager HQT wins the match up at the moment. At least when you do catch him you can abuse his weaknesses on knockdown, oki and even abuse back 1,2,1 on him and it armor breaks since his wake up armor is slow as shit.


As for who I think Goro CURRENTLY beats?

6-4 ish: Cassie Cage, Ermac, Tanya, Cyber Sub-Zero, Smoke, Kenshi, Jason.

I need more time with the new and improved Mileena, but I would not be surprised if she still lost to Goro. Kitana got even more interesting as well, they both got buffed in ways that counter each other's advantages over one another so I'd assume things have remained the same and in balance. Assassin I think does slightly better in general though not enough to change any numbers.


I think most of his 5-5's stayed the same due to them also being buffed or receiving light nerfs : i.e. RS/ASS Kitana, GM Sub-Zero, SQ D'Vorah, Gen Jax, etc.

He may have more or less down the line, but I feel like most of his match ups are extremely balanced from the ones I've played or experimented with thus far.

He loses against JC simply because with his d4, he can low profile EVERYTHING Goro throws at him, including f3 and b121. Only KW's Chest Lunge can counter his d4, but on block its unsafe, so it has to be a read.

Up close his pressure is S tier, hell, he can even zone Goro if he wants to, especially A-List.

A-List JC's frame traps up close are godlike, his chip damage is godlike, his zoning is almost godlike, his neutral is godlike, his 50/50s are godlike and lead to a restand, into the same situation all over again.

I really dont know how you think Goro can win this MU. I have tried TF Goro as well and it was a matter of time before JC got in and all of it turned around.

You cant also armor through JC's pressure, simply because of his d4, which LOW PROFILES both punchwalk AND Dragon Spin in DF. And of course the command grab shenanigans dont work against him as well.

I strongly disagree with Jason, especially after XL hit. Jason now has something he was lacking before in general. Best d1 and d2 in the game, in terms of frame numbers and a safe advancing 9f mid combo starter. Add to that his already godlike command grab mixups, armor breaking properties in Unstoppable and comeback potential as well. Goro was winning this MU before XL, now its probably even.
 
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Metzos

You will BOW to me!
@Metzos does your jc # include fisticuffs? Also how does the cage matchup go? Just curious

It sucks for Goro big time, imo, Goro has to play EXTREMELY carefully to win against Cage. One mistake can cost you the round for free.

Dunno about fisticuffs, i just mentioned all variations of JC, because he has the general tools to beat Goro in all of his variations, read my response to Espio.
 
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Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
I really dont see how Reptile would problem Goro at all. I have played this MU alot.
Goro gets zoned out with ease, Telestomp is completely useless in this matchup. After a PW Goro only option is to EX Punchwalk because of reptiles B2.

Reptile controls the neutral with ease in this matchup. I use both characters and play against Milky Situation all of the time. This is a rough match up for Goro, your opponent isn't playing the match up correctly.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Goro gets zoned out with ease, Telestomp is completely useless in this matchup. After a PW Goro only option is to EX Punchwalk because of reptiles B2.

Reptile controls the neutral with ease in this matchup. I use both characters and play against Milky Situation all of the time. This is a rough match up for Goro, your opponent isn't playing the match up correctly.
Do you have any footage?
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Atm, i think he wins against Cassie, EB, Tanya, QC, D'vorah, Ermac, Raiden, SZ, Kenshi and probably Mileena and Tremor. Dunno about the other KP2 characters, but i really believe he wins against Triborg with the exception of Smoke (cause he has better neutral game than the other three variations, so it might be a 5-5).

All in all, almost all of his MU's, at the current state of the game, are either 5-5s and 6-4s/4-6s, with the exception of HQT Predator and Johnny Cage (all variations), those two MU's are 7-3 in favor of HQT Predator and JC for sure.

EDIT: Forgot Reptile, i believe Goro wins against him as well.
Goro doesn't not beat mileena, or ermac. 1st of mileena outzones goro completely , she can roll through any poke into punchwalk without bar, she can teleport when he stops and gets like 15 percent, you cant jump on her and you cant outzone her, she controls the pace of the entire match, also he builds hella bar while zoning you so if she breaks you are full screen and you are gonna keep eating projectiles, i think its one of goros worst matchups tbh, also she can roll through any gap goro has. Ermac is the same problem he basically just outspaces goro and removes stomp as an option, he can just stay back and control the neutral, and you arent gonna be trading anything with ermac unless you want to eat 35 plus. Also johnny does not 7-3 goro first off in tigrar , goro outzones Johnny in any variation, goro is the king of stopping rushdown, so any gaps boom, first off johnny d4 cant low profile exx lowfang which is has armor and is plus 12. Also one mistake does not cost you the round for free, i play plenty of good Johny players and do pretty well against them. @LeftOverShark @Empr_Death @Dja_Homies
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
I think the biggest thing this discourse tells us is that it's too early and we are quite possibly playing in the past perhaps? It's good everyone doesn't agree though, mainly because the meta has shifted significantly and I think we'd be better off focusing on the tools our character has in a match up instead of worrying about "Who do you play against" because that doesn't really tell us why a match up unfolds the way it does.

Telestomp is not an essential tool that makes or breaks a match up. There are characters Goro goes 5-5 with and he can rarely if ever use telestomp or using it is not often times worthwhile (Kitana comes to mind) and honestly considering he can actually move around now it cannot even be considered necessary for mobility either, it's more comparable to square wave where it has uses, but the opponent being able to deal with it doesn't make or break your chances. The main thing telestomp should be used for in my opinion is shutting down cross ups and other types of jump ins or corner escape attempts.

If Mileena's best option for getting out of down poke into punch walk is roll, even if it's meterless she's still unsafe as shit on block. Why is this even a big deal? She has to commit to roll out of it and all that really does is set up a meta game. I could see if this was like Hawkgirl in Injustice where she could get out of gaps and be +4 on block with wing evade, but if Mileena is wrong, she dies. Cancelling everything into punch walk at this stage in the game shouldn't be a thing anymore anyway. You have the frame data to sustain mix ups and offense, why not use it? If people feel compelled to cancel a fast mid into punch walk, back 1 is also a gapless option that leads to decent damage.

And why is having to block after a punch walk occasionally a problem? Other people that are minus five (or worse minus eight) and are forced to block after their pressure ends yet it's not a big deal and they probably beat said character (in the case of Kitana versus Reptile).


As for Johnny Cage, that whole argument is contingent on the Johnny Cage player NEVER being wrong and if they are never wrong, you're getting outplayed pretty decisively. Is it really that crazy to make a read on down 4 and either reverse pressure or mix it up in how you deal with pressure? Sometimes just blocking and then countering is super effective. The logic for Cage winning is very flimsy. For example, you claim down 4 alone is enough for him to win plus you add his zoning, but Cassie Cage and other characters you have as winning have better projectile zoning with instant air guns AND a low profiling down poke. It's not consistent and not logical.

Goro should NEVER truly struggle beyond 4-6 at worst against pressure characters, he is built by design to be a tank character with great defensive options. If all Cage is doing is abusing down 4, block and counter poke. His down 4 might be good, but overall our pokes are equal or better than his combined pokes. We have safe escape options out of his pressure and while my point about him being extremely vulnerable to our oki has largely been ignored, it still definitely matters. His pressure is really good, but if anybody can deal with Cage's pressure, it's Goro with his safe armor, plus on block armor and good pokes.
 
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EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
I think the biggest thing this discourse tells us is that it's too early and we are quite possibly playing in the past perhaps? It's good everyone doesn't agree though, mainly because the meta has shifted significantly and I think we'd be better off focusing on the tools our character has in a match up instead of worrying about "Who do you play against" because that doesn't really tell us why a match up unfolds the way it does.

Telestomp is not an essential tool that makes or breaks a match up. There are characters Goro goes 5-5 with and he can rarely if ever use telestomp or using it is not often times worthwhile (Kitana comes to mind) and honestly considering he can actually move around now it cannot even be considered necessary for mobility either, it's more comparable to square wave where it has uses, but the opponent being able to deal with it doesn't make or break your chances. The main thing telestomp should be used for in my opinion is shutting down cross ups and other types of jump ins or corner escape attempts.

If Mileena's best option for getting out of down poke into punch walk is roll, even if it's meterless she's still unsafe as shit on block. Why is this even a big deal? She has to commit to roll out of it and all that really does is set up a meta game. I could see if this was like Hawkgirl in Injustice where she could get out of gaps and be +4 on block with wing evade, but if Mileena is wrong, she dies. Cancelling everything into punch walk at this stage in the game shouldn't be a thing anymore anyway. You have the frame data to sustain mix ups and offense, why not use it? If people feel compelled to cancel a fast mid into punch walk, back 1 is also a gapless option that leads to decent damage.

And why is having to block after a punch walk occasionally a problem? Other people that are minus five (or worse minus eight) and are forced to block after their pressure ends yet it's not a big deal and they probably beat said character (in the case of Kitana versus Reptile).


As for Johnny Cage, that whole argument is contingent on the Johnny Cage player NEVER being wrong and if they are never wrong, you're getting outplayed pretty decisively. Is it really that crazy to make a read on down 4 and either reverse pressure or mix it up in how you deal with pressure? Sometimes just blocking and then countering is super effective. The logic for Cage winning is very flimsy. For example, you claim down 4 alone is enough for him to win plus you add his zoning, but Cassie Cage and other characters you have as winning have better projectile zoning with instant air guns AND a low profiling down poke. It's not consistent and not logical.

Goro should NEVER truly struggle beyond 4-6 at worst against pressure characters, he is built by design to be a tank character with great defensive options. If all Cage is doing is abusing down 4, block and counter poke. His down 4 might be good, but overall our pokes are equal or better than his combined pokes. We have safe escape options out of his pressure and while my point about him being extremely vulnerable to our oki has largely been ignored, it still definitely matters. His pressure is really good, but if anybody can deal with Cage's pressure, it's Goro with his safe armor, plus on block armor and good pokes.
Im just saying that milenna has options, im just saying that in that particular matchup milenna just has options against goro, alot more options than most and more than goro has against her, also things like when milenna has 2 bars and breaks even when goro gets in and sends him almost full screen with no stamina and than sits back and builds more bar etc.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Goro doesn't not beat mileena, or ermac. 1st of mileena outzones goro completely , she can roll through any poke into punchwalk without bar, she can teleport when he stops and gets like 15 percent, you cant jump on her and you cant outzone her, she controls the pace of the entire match, also he builds hella bar while zoning you so if she breaks you are full screen and you are gonna keep eating projectiles, i think its one of goros worst matchups tbh, also she can roll through any gap goro has. Ermac is the same problem he basically just outspaces goro and removes stomp as an option, he can just stay back and control the neutral, and you arent gonna be trading anything with ermac unless you want to eat 35 plus. Also johnny does not 7-3 goro first off in tigrar , goro outzones Johnny in any variation, goro is the king of stopping rushdown, so any gaps boom, first off johnny d4 cant low profile exx lowfang which is has armor and is plus 12. Also one mistake does not cost you the round for free, i play plenty of good Johny players and do pretty well against them. @LeftOverShark @Empr_Death @Dja_Homies

Still, Mileena has to take risks, cause roll is not safe. I ll keep grinding the MU cause i havent played it much after XL.

Ermac was losing against Goro before XL, i dont see his changes affecting the MU in the current state of the game as well.

A-list's projectiles are godlike, for a rushdown character, to say the least. Perhaps, only TF can outzone him, but KW and DF, i dont see it happening.

Yeah, except A-list JC does not have any gaps, if the cancels are done perfectly. Also in neutral, i say again, his d4 is a pain in the ass to deal against.

I wanna see some footage, if you have m8, offline preferably.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I think the biggest thing this discourse tells us is that it's too early and we are quite possibly playing in the past perhaps? It's good everyone doesn't agree though, mainly because the meta has shifted significantly and I think we'd be better off focusing on the tools our character has in a match up instead of worrying about "Who do you play against" because that doesn't really tell us why a match up unfolds the way it does.

Telestomp is not an essential tool that makes or breaks a match up. There are characters Goro goes 5-5 with and he can rarely if ever use telestomp or using it is not often times worthwhile (Kitana comes to mind) and honestly considering he can actually move around now it cannot even be considered necessary for mobility either, it's more comparable to square wave where it has uses, but the opponent being able to deal with it doesn't make or break your chances. The main thing telestomp should be used for in my opinion is shutting down cross ups and other types of jump ins or corner escape attempts.

If Mileena's best option for getting out of down poke into punch walk is roll, even if it's meterless she's still unsafe as shit on block. Why is this even a big deal? She has to commit to roll out of it and all that really does is set up a meta game. I could see if this was like Hawkgirl in Injustice where she could get out of gaps and be +4 on block with wing evade, but if Mileena is wrong, she dies. Cancelling everything into punch walk at this stage in the game shouldn't be a thing anymore anyway. You have the frame data to sustain mix ups and offense, why not use it? If people feel compelled to cancel a fast mid into punch walk, back 1 is also a gapless option that leads to decent damage.

And why is having to block after a punch walk occasionally a problem? Other people that are minus five (or worse minus eight) and are forced to block after their pressure ends yet it's not a big deal and they probably beat said character (in the case of Kitana versus Reptile).


As for Johnny Cage, that whole argument is contingent on the Johnny Cage player NEVER being wrong and if they are never wrong, you're getting outplayed pretty decisively. Is it really that crazy to make a read on down 4 and either reverse pressure or mix it up in how you deal with pressure? Sometimes just blocking and then countering is super effective. The logic for Cage winning is very flimsy. For example, you claim down 4 alone is enough for him to win plus you add his zoning, but Cassie Cage and other characters you have as winning have better projectile zoning with instant air guns AND a low profiling down poke. It's not consistent and not logical.

Goro should NEVER truly struggle beyond 4-6 at worst against pressure characters, he is built by design to be a tank character with great defensive options. If all Cage is doing is abusing down 4, block and counter poke. His down 4 might be good, but overall our pokes are equal or better than his combined pokes. We have safe escape options out of his pressure and while my point about him being extremely vulnerable to our oki has largely been ignored, it still definitely matters. His pressure is really good, but if anybody can deal with Cage's pressure, it's Goro with his safe armor, plus on block armor and good pokes.
You could have quoted me if you wanted an answer Espio, i just saw your post.

Regarding A-List JC, his d4 is a MAJOR deal-breaker against Goro. Being able to low profile him up close and in footsies range is ridiculous. I m saying that if his pressure is done perfectly, there are no gaps to interrupt him, and even if there are, he can just d4 on a read and boom, Goro just lost a bar for nothing and he is at minus frames against one of the best pressure characters in the game.

You cant have meter for armor, EVERYTIME JC touches you on block, thats ridiculous, plus as i said to Knicks, his zoning in A-List variation, is pretty godlike.

Cassie Cage is not the same, simply because:

Her main advancing string has a gap.

She does not have cancels which are a gazillion plus on block.

On knockdown, after XL, she is 100% free, while JC is not.

I find ridiculous that NRS said that they addressed the low profiling issue and yet JC is still able to low profile for free Goro's punchwalk, dragon spin, command grab, f3, b121 with his d4 which, i forgot to mention, is +20something frames on hit AND its safe against Goro and, pretty much, against the entire cast.

If that is not a bad MU for Goro, then i really dont know what is.

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