TYM Kommunity Project: An Open Letter to NRS Concerning Netplay

[WidowPuppy]

Is there a clip of this happening somewhere?
That's horrible lmao. I'm laughing over how bad that is.

Day 1 ceo I believe, if there's an archive or YouTube which there should be... It's there. He was wearing a get money type shirt [How fitting]

 

[Gamer68]

MK X has stepped it up in a few places so it's a little unfair to say that. They included frame data where many others haven't, a great training mode, at least compared to previous NRS games, a top tier story mode, well compared to other games in the genre which wasn't that hard to be honest. Many nice little touches like quitalities, brutalities, amazing stages, blanche etc. It's only really the online issues that let them down, which for me at least, was what was so frustrating. They knew it was an issue but didn't bother to address it.

I simply cannot fathom why they spent additional time on useless features like faction grinding or test your luck, when they missed out the part that everyone was waiting to see. It seems such a shame, and whilst I was initially pretty pissed about it, I'm just kind of gutted now. It was such a missed opportunity.

There is no doubt that MKX is the best MK ever. It's a great game. Great gameplay, great visuals, plenty of finishers, 8 new characters, new stages, plenty of alt costumes, and it's a great game for both casual and competitive players. It also has a good story even though it wasn't as good as MK9. All the different towers is also a nice addition -- so is all the training mode improvements.

It's just that this game's netcode is it's biggest issue, and a very bad one. Everyone wants to play multiplayer in a fighting game, playing against the AI is nothing like playing against a player. Right now, MKX's netcode is just terrible. The only time you can ever have a good multiplayer experience with the game is local vs. But people like be doesn't get to play with people at home very often, and I also don't go to tournaments. So online is my only option to try to play the game competitively... but online sucks. And even if online wasn't your ONLY option (like with me), having to deal with it no matter your case still sucks.

 

[Kompetitor]

If only MKX had Killer Instincts netcode...

 

[Drew9795]

The netcode probably sucks because it's on unreal engine. Gears of war runs on unreal engine and it's notorious for being a laggy piece of shit too

 

[Obi]

Day 1 ceo I believe, if there's an archive or YouTube which there should be... It's there. He was wearing a get money type shirt [How fitting]

Dnu. I'm looking but I can't find it.
I see UMVC footage on youtube and that's it.

 

[mercureXI]

The netcode probably sucks because it's on unreal engine. Gears of war runs on unreal engine and it's notorious for being a laggy piece of shit too

Unless I'm wrong, GG Xrd uses UE too.

And needless to say, despite using UE, it's like a million times better when you go online.

 

[juicepouch]

just played two matches online with upwards of 20 frames of lag in each. This is quite seriously unplayable. What a joke

 

[WidowPuppy]

Dnu. I'm looking but I can't find it.
I see UMVC footage on youtube.


Dnu. I'm looking but I can't find it.
I see UMVC footage on youtube and that's it.

It's here if you really wanna see it. http://www.twitch.tv/funkyp/v/6652826 Somewhere in this archive. I'm watching T7 Evo pools right now. If someone's bored and knows how, make a YouTube clip of that shit. It's too funny to not have highlighted.

 

[WidowPuppy]

just played two matches online with upwards of 20 frames of lag in each. This is quite seriously unplayable. What a joke

Sounds like every match I play in MKX Online. Sickest fucking joke ever! And this fucker on Twitter Boon, is just advertising shit nonstop lol. Sometimes I think he's a bot.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Lmao, we ask Kotaku and the next day there will be 25 headlines across the net:
"More Proof That Male Gamers Are Toxic And Entitled"

Yeah do NOT approach Kotaku about anything ever lol

 

[mercureXI]

Quick test this afternoon.

30 matches in Ranked.

24 were people using WiFi (asked after the matc-- the lagfest)

Might be time to seriously consider putting a BIG RED ICON next to these fuckers

 

[00001]

I have a wi-fi connection. As a result, I DO NOT play online from where I live, because I understand that it could potentially ruin someone else's online experience. I've got a friend with a wired connection, and if I've an itch to play online then I'll make the short trip there and we'll pass the stick between matches. Which would be really fun, except our matches are always burdened by input delay despite the fact that our connection is really good. It's frustrating.

 

[WidowPuppy]

Quick test this afternoon.

30 matches in Ranked.

24 were people using WiFi (asked after the matc-- the lagfest)

Might be time to seriously consider putting a BIG RED ICON next to these fuckers

The sole purpose of the EVERYONE GETS GREEN BARS update was to make even the worst connections looks good, so that's not gonna happen.

Besides... It's not even the problem. I cannot get an input lag free match VS my wired friends, and I'm wired as well.

 

[kevkopdx]

I have a wi-fi connection. As a result, I DO NOT play online from where I live, because I understand that it could potentially ruin someone else's online experience. I've got a friend with a wired connection, and if I've an itch to play online then I'll make the short trip there and we'll pass the stick between matches. Which would be really fun, except our matches are always burdened by input delay despite the fact that our connection is really good. It's frustrating.

why punish yourself? u wont get a humanitarian award for not using your wifi and if you admittedly have lag on your friends wired connection anyways... youll prob get some good connections here and there... so last night just out of curiousity ive accepted matches with yellow bars annnnnnnd LOL some of them are better connections than 4 green bars, this game is a mess hahaha

 

[mercureXI]

why punish yourself? u wont get a humanitarian award for not using your wifi and if you admittedly have lag on your friends wired connection anyways... youll prob get some good connections here and there... so last night just out of curiousity ive accepted matches with yellow bars annnnnnnd LOL some of them are better connections than 4 green bars, this game is a mess hahaha

Problem with the "bar" system, is that when it comes to WiFi, you have hiccups all the time.

If the game "tests" you when everything is fine, you may get the green bar treatment.

If the game "tests" you when your WiFi decides to go get a beer instead of searching for lost packets, you'll get red.

Hence the "WiFi" icon being more reliable.

That way, you know FOR SURE, you need to evade that guy.

And even though latency is overall a problem, at least, you don't have to suffer "10FPS" matches so many times.

I still don't understand why fighting games in general let people connect with WiFi setups.

It's unreliable, and connection hiccups are SURE to ruin your matches.

 

[kevkopdx]

Problem with the "bar" system, is that when it comes to WiFi, you have hiccups all the time.

If the game "tests" you when everything is fine, you may get the green bar treatment.

If the game "tests" you when your WiFi decides to go get a beer instead of searching for lost packets, you'll get red.

Hence the "WiFi" icon being more reliable.

That way, you know FOR SURE, you need to evade that guy.

And even though latency is overall a problem, at least, you don't have to suffer "10FPS" matches so many times.

I still don't understand why fighting games in general let people connect with WiFi setups.

It's unreliable, and connection hiccups are SURE to ruin your matches.

i agree about wifi but the problem with mkx is all netcode... im wired now but even in injustice i had way better matches using wifi.. and KI just shits all over this game wifi or wired... having a wifi icon would be great, sure, but NRS seriously messed up here .... it feels like everyone is grasping for straws to find a way to make this game work bettter online.... everyone but the studio that made the damn game

 

[mercureXI]

Oh I know it's far from perfect even wired.

But at least you get latency, not unplayable garbage with wired VS wired.

Those WiFi matches, I just put the controller away, and wonder if the other guy enjoys the match as much as he enjoys having no wire around him.

PS : EVO's Mustard Shinnok match is seriously great !

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Quick test this afternoon.

30 matches in Ranked.

24 were people using WiFi (asked after the matc-- the lagfest)

Might be time to seriously consider putting a BIG RED ICON next to these fuckers

I have a wi-fi connection. As a result, I DO NOT play online from where I live, because I understand that it could potentially ruin someone else's online experience. I've got a friend with a wired connection, and if I've an itch to play online then I'll make the short trip there and we'll pass the stick between matches. Which would be really fun, except our matches are always burdened by input delay despite the fact that our connection is really good. It's frustrating.

Is Wi-Fi that bad in your country/countries? I struggle to believe it seeing as you guys are generally Euro or US, and we are "behind" you guys in Australia. I have multiple devices running on the Wi-Fi at all times, and not once has it ever caused me any lag spikes in any online game and this including playing multiple eSports (Dota2, Starcraft 2, Counter Strike: Source and Go, Guild Wars 2, Eve Online) amongst MANY other things, and has never ONCE dropped out at a time the wired connection hasn't also - in fact, my wired connection has instabilities at times where my Wi-Fi has remained stable forcing me to finish off conversations on my iPad before resetting my router.

There is nothing inherently worse about Wi-Fi. I keep hearing this shit and it's not an accurate interpretation, if you have a shit connection then you have a shit connection, if there is a ton of interference or you had a bad Wi-Fi reciever or adapter, or you live in P Diddys crib and are playing on the very edge of your Wi-Fi range but somehow still in your house, then yeah you might get problems through your Wi-Fi that aren't existent on your wired, but at the end of the day this shouldn't be an issue, if you experience lag it's because the game has decided to be laggy. Crappy Wi-Fi sticks and wireless Hotspots / jockeying mobile phone internet, maybe, but even they are fine at times. If it's a stable connection it's a stable connection, end of story.


Also out of curiosity, if you are swapping the Wi-Fi stick with your opponent between matches, if this is so that you take turns having the lag, doesn't this mean that Wireless connections are not responsible for lag on your opponents end? Just wondering

 

[mercureXI]

WiFi vs wired.

Wired will always win.

Hands down.

Just look for Professional tests. It has been tested. Intensively.

WiFi unstability is caused by your environment (neighbours for example), things you can't do anything about sometimes.

Wired is stable. All the time. All the way.

But I agree, there are different "levels" of WiFi routers, though even the best can't compare to wired in terms of stability.

The very same reason why, Nvidia Shield Tablet PC games streaming works SO MUCH BETTER using wired vs using wifi. IIRC you can't even stream in 1080P unless you're wired, by design.

PS : and PS4 WiFi card sucks ass ... true story

MKX has such a bad netcode, no need to shoot yourself in the foot by using WiFi on top of that.

 

[00001]

I live in a rural, mountainous area, so yeah the connection can get really bad where I live. And if I played under those conditions then lag would be entirely my fault. But I always play online at a friend's house, and he lives a few towns over and has a wired connection with a better internet provider and we still face similar issues.

I play stick, so when I said pass the stick I meant controller. Sorry for the confusion there.

 

[WidowPuppy]

WiFi vs wired.

Wired will always win.

Hands down.

Just look for Professional tests. It has been tested. Intensively.

WiFi unstability is caused by your environment (neighbours for example), things you can't do anything about sometimes.

Wired is stable. All the time. All the way.

But I agree, there are different "levels" of WiFi routers, though even the best can't compare to wired in terms of stability.

The very same reason why, Nvidia Shield Tablet PC games streaming works SO MUCH BETTER using wired vs using wifi. IIRC you can't even stream in 1080P unless you're wired, by design.

PS : and PS4 WiFi card sucks ass ... true story

MKX has such a bad netcode, no need to shoot yourself in the foot by using WiFi on top of that.

In most games client to client, I would agree that wired has the advantage.

But in MKX, I would have to disagree. As said before, I have an upgrade on my internet speed giving me 60 up and 30 down, 80 bucks a month.

From my personal experience in playing MKX online VS wired and wireless friends. The person with the better internet speed is at a disadvantage while giving your opponent with the crappiest online possible, a smoother less latent experience.

And whether or not people want to believe it, I've experienced it first hand over 100 times...

In MKX, both players are NOT experiencing the same latency. One player, usually the one with the inferior internet speed always has an advantage, as one player could be experiencing 3 frames of lag VS a good wired connection while the other is experiencing 15 frames of input lag.

Sadly, this lopsided frame delay can even be found in matches with both players having a solid wired connect. Think this has something to do with location, ping to your opponents connection, distance to some central server perhaps. Won't ever really know, only NRS knows, and that does us no good at all because they are working hard on KP 2, Tremor marketing and pointless commercials with live actors that you see and don't even know what the fuck you're watching.

All the people who say, my connection to online is fine... Good for you. Most likely you're beating up on someone who is 8+ frames behind in every command they input. MKX online is the biggest fucking joke in the history of online fighting games. And the company wants nothing more than to distract you with other shit, to prevent you from mentioning it. If you mention it here, they laugh, because everyone here has purchased MKX.

They only want to make sure you do not get this out on a large scale to possible future MKX buyers.

Tomorrow, after the Tremor/KP2 trailer... STAND UP FOR WHAT WE ARE ENTITLED TO! And stop caring about what people who ignore you and lie to your face think about it.

 

[mercureXI]

In most games client to client, I would agree that wired has the advantage.

But in MKX, I would have to disagree. As said before, I have an upgrade on my internet speed giving me 60 up and 30 down, 80 bucks a month.

From my personal experience in playing MKX online VS wired and wireless friends. The person with the better internet speed is at a disadvantage while giving your opponent with the crappiest online possible a smoother less latent experience.

And whether or not people want to believe it, I've experienced it first hand over 100 times...

In MKX, both players are NOT experiencing the same latency. One player, usually the one with the inferior internet speed always has an advantage, as one player could be experiencing 3 frames of lag VS a good wired connection while the other is experiencing 15 frames of input lag.

Sadly, this lopsided frame delay can even be found in matches with both players having a solid wired connect. Think this has something to do with location, ping to your opponents connection, distance to some central server perhaps. Won't ever really know, only NRS knows, and that does us no good at all because they are working hard on KP 2 Tremor marketing, pointless commercials with live actors that you see and don't even know what the fuck you're watching.

All the people who say, my connection to online is fine... Good for you. Most likely you're beating up on someone who is 8= frames behind in every command they input. MKX online is the biggest fucking joke in the history of online fighting games. And the company wants nothing more than to distract you with other shit, to prevent you from mentioning it. If you mention it here, they laugh, because everyone here has purchased MKX.

They only want to make sure you do not get this out on a large scale to possible future MKX buyers.

Tomorrow, after the Tremor/KP2 trailer... STAND UP FOR WHAT WE ARE ENTITLED TO! And stop caring about what people who ignore you and lie to your face think about it.

If it was only an input lag thing, I'd agree.

But on PS4 at least, EVERY TIME I play someone who uses WiFi, I can tell as soon as we enter select screen.

There are those little 1/4 sec mini-freeze hiccups, every now and then, that turn ultimately during the match, at some point, into massive 1sec hiccups here and there, forcing you to drop shit and so on.

The rest of the match sometimes is fine, but those hiccups just kill the match.

And that happens ONLY with WiFi players.

Never had that problem with Wired guys. Ever.

But like I said, WiFi on PS4 sucks ass. It's well known, a fact and a religion.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

WiFi vs wired.

Wired will always win.

Hands down.

Just look for Professional tests. It has been tested. Intensively.

WiFi unstability is caused by your environment (neighbours for example), things you can't do anything about sometimes.

Wired is stable. All the time. All the way.

But I agree, there different levels of WiFi routers, though even the best can't compare to wired in terms of stability.

No. While you aren't technically wrong, this is exactly what I meant when I said "inaccurate interpretation" of how this translates to gameplay. While wired will always be the faster connection, this doesn't make Wi-Fi "slow"' just "not quite as fast". If you have high-speed internet, the difference when it comes to running games is like comparing a bullet shot through someone's head from a sniper rifle compared to a bullet shot from a magnum, also through someone's head, and trying to work out which one kills them better. They both do the job even if one might have a little more power behind it.

Do you commonly experience lag on your Wi-Fi? Does it commonly drop out? Is it completely sub-par to your paired connection? If the answers to these questions are yes, that's fine, it just means you have a crappy, unstable Wi-Fi connection. If the answers are no, than your Wi-Fi is just fine. Otherwise, your Wi-Fi is NOT responsible for your lag on MKX. There is nothing inherently wrong with playing wireless, and honestly if you are ahead of us in your countries which I'm fairly certain you are, than at least 90% of home Wi-Fi connections (likely more) should be MUCH more than adequately fast and stable enough to run any game online



Want to prove it for yourself? Run some speed tests on your Wi-Fi. Run some speed tests on your wired. Note the tiny differences, and note the fact that you will need a connection MUCH slower than even most bottom range internet connections these days to cause you noticeable in-game lag, even temporary lag. Or just skim this http://www.howtogeek.com/217463/wi-fi-vs.-ethernet-how-much-better-is-a-wired-connection. And as far as interference goes, while it might "slow down" your connection this once again does not make it slow, just "slower", on modern day Wifi even going at like half speed (!!) would not lag your games even slightly. Basically, if you are getting lag because of your connection, it's because your connection sucks, be it wireless or be it wired.

I live in a rural, mountainous area, so yeah the connection can get really bad where I live. And if I played under those conditions then lag would be entirely my fault. But I always play online at a friend's house, and he lives a few towns over and has a wired connection with a better internet provider and we still face similar issues.

I play stick, so when I said pass the stick I meant controller. Sorry for the confusion there.

Got it. That all makes a lot more sense haha

 

[WidowPuppy]

If it was only an input lag thing, I'd agree.

But on PS4 at least, EVERY TIME I play someone who uses WiFi, I can tell as soon as we enter select screen.

There are those little 1/4 sec mini-freeze hiccups, every now and then, that turn ultimately during the match, at some point, into massive 1sec hiccups here and there, forcing you to drop shit and so on.

The rest of the match sometimes is fine, but those hiccups just kill the match.

And that happens ONLY with WiFi players.

Never had that problem with Wired guys. Ever.

But like I said, WiFi on PS4 sucks ass. It's well known, a fact and a religion.

Not saying that someone on a shit wireless connection can't cause other issues. For me, input lag of 8+ frames minimum and up to 30 is what makes me NOT EVEN ABLE to play this game that I've spent over 200 dollars on.

Wireless could cause additional spikes if their wireless is unstable ONLY, like Hands mentioned.

BTW...

Check this out.

https://twitter.com/thisislijoe/status/622514287626424320

 

[00001]

We shouldn't even have to discuss whether wireless or wired connections are superior in such a laggy environment, NRS should have just released a game that plays well online. It's fucking ridiculous to think that in 2015, on current gen consoles, we have to have these kinds of discussions because a company would rather hype up DLC than release something that's playable online.