Addressing Viscant's points
1. Sure, maybe Tempest Lao, Ermac and Scorpion gave Tanya issues too. That still doesn't counter my main point. I shouldn't have to pick up a teleport character or Grandmaster Sub to be able to beat Tanya.
Regardless, the door swings both ways here too. Tanya players might not have known how to fight Grandmaster Sub, Tempest Lao, Scorp and Ermac yet. It's possible she ends up being even better than we thought and she 7-3's most of the cast with a few 6-4's. You keep saying, 'We'll never know.' Well why risk it? We've seen what Kabal did to our scene in MK9 and it wasn't fun to play against or watch. We can see why Tanya is beating characters and it's because she is safely playing outside the normal meta of MKX. Keyword is 'safely'. There's practically no consequence to her teleporting. So its a good bet to tone that down and bring her closer to the meta that everyone else is playing. It really is that simple.
"I'd like that too. I'd also like a pony and an ice cream cone."
You mocking my vision, and NRS's vision of balance is where we differ most. You think balance is a pie in the sky. That we're wishing on a shooting star and to even think a game can have very few 7-3 or 8-2 matchups is a joke.
We are telling you with the way NRS can change their game at any sign of there being something too overpowering that it CAN be achieved. MK9 was a beta run. Injustice upon release was a joke. Through patching it made a very awkward feeling game into a pretty fun and pretty well balanced game compared to most. Especially given the character diversity in Injustice. I already told you that we had two bottom 10 characters make top 8 at Evo last year. Unheard of in most games. Mock me about it all you want, but it's happening.
Anyone reading this, if you want to play a game where the tiers dictate what characters you can play with, then by all means, stick with Capcom or whatever else. But if you'd like to play a game where you can pick any character you like, please stay on this side of the line. We're trying things new here. You an either be a part of it or keep that old-man syndrome.
2. The patches had nothing to do with why CEO was not as interesting as Combo Breaker. What made it not as interesting was Tanya. Constantly running away and only playing the game when she felt like it. Sure maybe a few characters are able to calm her down, but most cannot. And that's why it was not fun to watch.
3. Yea, SonicFox overcame great odds by beating DJT's Fisticuffs Cage. If you ask me DJT just choked. But just do me a favor and watch those matches again. Fox loses entire games cause he can't get out of the corner. It's funny to watch, but it's also pretty stupid. If that matchup were to get fleshed out, there's pretty damn good odds the matchup is mainly about just getting Erron Black to the corner and abusing his bad pokes and armor. Yea yea yea, 'we don't know for sure' but my God man, look at one toolset vs. the other and we can make a fairly educated guess.
4. Whether you want to believe it or not, for this community, Injustice was the anticipated sequel to MK9. We all know UMvC3 isn't a sequel to SF and we all know Soul Caliber 2 wasn't a sequel to Tekken. But you aren't part of our community. You wouldn't know. And to most of us Injustice was the sequel. Don't try and tell us why people within our community stopped playing MK9 to Injustice and why people stopped playing Injustice to MKX. We already know, and I already told you. You can either believe me or not, but we would know better than you do. Please stop trying to educate us about our own community.
And there were sometimes exhibition tournaments for MK9 and Injustice just like 3rd Strike, MvC2 and ST. MK9 had a bunch of exhibitions into Injustce's life. Combo Breaker had an Injustice exhibition as well. You don't know what you're talking about.
5. This was you pretty much saying since D'Vorah isn't as good as she used to be so you don't know if you can play more sloppy or not. Is it really that hard to figure out? You were just praising SonicFox for figuring out how to fight Fisticuffs Cage within 90 minutes, yet you have to completely 're-learn' the entire D'Vorah matchup because you have MORE options when you block ONE of her moves? You're heavily exaggerating this talking point. Just do what you normally do and use armor occasionally to keep them honest from doing the overhead. That's pretty much it. Any other D'Vorah that lets you get away with more than that then consider yourself lucky.
You don't need excel or some calculus formula. You assume the best of what the character is capable of, base your options around that, then figure out what your best option is based on risk vs. reward. After that it's just reading your opponent. It's not that complicated.
And if the patches dis-organized your excel sheet, then boo-hoo. If you didn't get around to testing it in the first place then what time was lost? This doesn't even make sense.
6. "Also it's hypothetical that people quit if the game isn't patched. It's factual that people quit if the game is overpatched."
How many times do we have to tell you in this thread that Injustice almost DIED because it didn't get patched soon enough? The game got booed at Evo. Superman and Black Adam were winning all the main locals, regionals and majors. The balance patch saved the game. Mr. Wizard even said that. So no, it's actually not hypothetical. It's actually fact. If we were to take your advice, the game would've died and our scene would've died. You don't know what you're talking about. We have the history to back it up.
"Your standard as previously defined in your own words has yet to be reached in this game. Or any previous NRS game. Or any fighting game in 25 years. Maybe it's time for a new standard."
Yea, that standard has yet to be reached in any fighting game to date. I completely agree. There has not ever been a perfect fighting game. Not ST, not MvC2, not TTT, not CvS2 not SFIV, not MK9, not Injustice, none of them are good. Not as good as I think they can be. So because it hasn't been done before we shouldn't try? We have the technology to try and accomplish it and you don't even want to see if it works. Great attitude man. Really optimistic.
"I'm not sure you read, digested or understood my examples about how older and newer games showed dramatic balance changes after months and years because after those posts you haven't changed your tune or your tone one bit. You either don't understand that or don't want to understand that and I don't care enough at this point to figure out which."
I completely understand what you're saying, and I'm telling you that those examples are few and far between. I understand as games develop sometimes a character's initial tier assessment is wrong, but more often than not, they are right. Every blue moon there's an Super Turbo T. Hawk storybook ending where a low tier suddenly becomes high tier with a new mechanic or glitch found or the right player with the right mind-set shows the world how good a character can be. But this is exception, not the rule. And that shouldn't be used as the excuse to not try and change things for the better.
In closing I'll say this.
Yes we love our games, we love our characters, and for us the patches aren't work. They are the result of feedback given to NRS to help make our game better. If you don't like it, then fine. Quit. You can play your games, and we can play ours. All we ask is that when you try to play our games, don't bitch about how we do things. It's not helping. Know that this is normal for us, this is how it is and this is how we like it. We don't play your games and bitch about how lop-sided the balance is, so don't play our games and bitch about how NRS changes things to try and make the game more balanced.
Our community is only 4 years old and we're going pretty good. There's been highs and lows but it's stronger than it's ever been now. Capcom players are the Alpha-males when it comes to the FGC. It's probably not intentional, but when Capcom players play our games and bitch about what they disagree with, it's still a negative impact on our community and our scene because of the influence Capcom players have over the FGC.
Just try it out and if you don't like it. Quit. It's that simple. There's no need for this mudslinging of our game, our community or NRS because things work differently here. We don't do it to you, all we ask is you don't do it to us.
). Kinda like how sf4 won't get patched anymore now that SfV is in full swing.
