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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Devin Thorn said:
Any tips on the Jax matchup? I may need to sharpen up my Stunt Double for this one
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I play so many Jax's it's not even funny. First the basics. Dont try to jump the purple wave. You're just going to eat them. Move in slow and watch for ground pounds. If against Heavy Weapons, you should know that offline, you can d4 the rocket which will piss them off real good.

Block high at dash punch range! Well...most of the time. It's better to block the dash punches than it is to try and guess which he'll do and then guess wrong. Just wait, and wait, and eventually he'll fire off that overhead punch which you can full combo punish. If you block the standard punch you don't get a punish, but you get to start your pressure.

D4 is the bane of Jax's existence. His F2 horsehockey cant get started cuz you'll just keep poking him out. once d4 lands you're + enough to come in and start pressure. You must frustrate the hell out of Jax with this. When in D4 range, you control the pace of the match.

From range your zoning will pretty much go tit for tat with his(unless heavy weapons). Once you have life lead dont be afraid to do a little zoning. Keep within shadow kick range so you can abuse your mimics. When your mimics are out, YOU are the better zoner. I dont recommend zoning when youre at a life deficit.

The worst place to be is in the corner when Jax is inside. I'll go as far as to say his pokes are better than yours and his pressure can be amazing. Because you end up in the corner so much against Jax, I tend to save meter to armor out of bad situations. I try not to use any meter in combos unless it's for a corner pop up, or if it'll kill. You are REALLY going to need that meter if he corners you.

Know when to poke against Jax. Go into the lab and practice, practice, practice. You can do a d1 after MANY of Jax's pokes. The one that bothers me the most is D1,2. No one seems to know he's fairly negative after that string. Please poke out.

Last note. Jax can anti air the fuck out of Johnny if you try to cross over jump punch him. All he has to do is a lazy d1, and you're in a juggle state. Dont jump over him if he knows to do this.

This is a fun matchup. I really think SD Johnny goes 5-5 with all versions of Jax. Good luck.
 
Devin Thorn

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Good points and actually most of that stuff I was noticing myself, I was doing a lot of neutral ducking under energy waves and d4'ing. I was using fisticuffs cage but only because my Stunt Double isn't match ready yet. I also think I tried punishing him too much on safe stuff. At least I knew he was plus on block with energy wave block strings lol. I definitely could use a Jax to spar with thanks man!
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Ok this Fisticuffs crap is getting out of hand. Every question is Fisticuffs related these days. It's still his worst variation.
 
Hawfy

Hawfy

"Martini Shot"
Yeah i feel johnny is the only character in the game where all of his variations are viable.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Mikemetroid said:
Lol no it's not. All of his variations work great across the board, where one fails another prevails.
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I didn't say it wasn't good. I just cant stand newbies coming in and thinking it's so god damn revolutionary because they saw some pro mop up some other pro with it. Some scrub online even criticized me for not using it. Called me low tier. Haha.

As for variation rank, my opinion is that it's the weakest. I think he loses more than he gains. Again...Not saying it's bad.

Hawfy said:
Yeah i feel johnny is the only character in the game where all of his variations are viable.
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Dont forget Jax, Cassie, and Scorpion.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Name v.5.0 said:
I didn't say it wasn't good. I just cant stand newbies coming in and thinking it's so god damn revolutionary because they saw some pro mop up some other pro with it. Some scrub online even criticized me for not using it. Called me low tier. Haha.

As for variation rank, my opinion is that it's the weakest. I think he loses more than he gains. Again...Not saying it's bad.
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I think Stunt Double is the weakest. People just don't know the matchup. Great damage sure, but using stunt doubles as pressure isn't right, its not THAT good. Plus the fact that if you use your doubles for pressure, you have to wait another couple of seconds before you can even try getting them again, until then you get the slower MK1 forceball, and the fisticuffs moveset. You also lose flipkick.

A-List at least has amazing tick throw setups and moves plus on block. It has the fisticuffs forceballs.

Fisticuffs literally locks people down, chips them away, and beats out armored reversals and wakeups.
Also with chip activated? Forceballs? Jesus christ that shit is incredible. Chip Trait also doesn't have a cool down.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I'm leaning towards A-List as his alpha variation, but having his variations do the same job in different ways is helpful for certain MU's
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Mikemetroid said:
I think Stunt Double is the weakest. People just don't know the matchup. Great damage sure, but using stunt doubles as pressure isn't right, its not THAT good. Plus the fact that if you use your doubles for pressure, you have to wait another couple of seconds before you can even try getting them again, until then you get the slower MK1 forceball, and the fisticuffs moveset. You also lose flipkick.

A-List at least has amazing tick throw setups and moves plus on block. It has the fisticuffs forceballs.

Fisticuffs literally locks people down, chips them away, and beats out armored reversals and wakeups.
Also with chip activated? Forceballs? Jesus christ that shit is incredible. Chip Trait also doesn't have a cool down.
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I play against people who do know the match up and at that point it really becomes a mind game as far as mimic activation goes. I love when they expect to armor out but you just block and full combo punish. haha. I just dont feel he's at a huge disadvantage when the opponent has the MU knowledge. Fisty is just more 1 dimensional to me and I think in time it will be the most beatable.

To each their own. I'm glad all Johnny variations are good and I'm glad we even get to have these discussions.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Name v.5.0 said:
I play against people who do know the match up and at that point it really becomes a mind game as far as mimic activation goes. I love when they expect to armor out but you just block and full combo punish. haha. I just dont feel he's at a huge disadvantage when the opponent has the MU knowledge. Fisty is just more 1 dimensional to me and I think in time it will be the most beatable.

To each their own. I'm glad all Johnny variations are good and I'm glad we even get to have these discussions.
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This is why i play Stunt double over the other 2 as my go-to, clones on block and mimic activation are both opportunities to make a read on your opponent without giving up your advantage or spending bars or stamina and blows people up if they dont respect or know the frames on your clones. Fisty/A list green balls cost a bar, run cancels cost stamina and arent as advantageous on block. The timer is something that needs learning, you have to use specific combos to give your nutpunch + blockstring enough time to cancel into mimic in the corner, or go for a throw, highballs whatever, but its manageable.

When someone has bar you can force it out of them a lot of the time by pressuring them with advantage and frame traps, so they lose armoured options with your mimic pressure. You need to use stamina or meter to get that same advantage in the other 2 and im awful at stamina management, and i EX Nut 100 times a match, so no mid ex forceballs from me.
 
Hawfy

Hawfy

"Martini Shot"
Name v.5.0 said:
I didn't say it wasn't good. I just cant stand newbies coming in and thinking it's so god damn revolutionary because they saw some pro mop up some other pro with it. Some scrub online even criticized me for not using it. Called me low tier. Haha.

As for variation rank, my opinion is that it's the weakest. I think he loses more than he gains. Again...Not saying it's bad.



Dont forget Jax, Cassie, and Scorpion.
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I take it back A-List is like his only good variation now.
 
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Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Hawfy said:
when i think about it youre right there are more characters that all 3 variations are good lol but i dont think you can say that about scorpion offline inferno is garbage.

I take it back A-List is like his only good variation now.
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No. SD is extremely powerful.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Welp, there goes Fisticuffs. You can back dash out almost anytime now. I was in the lab and tested getting out at different times and was able to do it 9 out of 10 times with ease.

Big nerf...
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Still good in the corner, still great stagger string and chip damage. Doing too many hits of the b121 series will let people backdash pretty free, so you cant just run it all day while the opponent has to try and react to a 12 frame gap while getting chipped to death. Still breaks armour, still good to lock people down on wakeup, still good damage and chip, easy to hitconfirm. Options on block are still there, you can stagger or EX forceball or attempt to punish a backdash on a read, its just not braindead. Chip damage is a pretty big focus now though, rather than just being hard as fuck to reliably escape.

114 still does what it pleases but i wouldnt get upset about these changes
 
kelevra

kelevra

Steel cable bungee jumper
Lets be real here. Fisticuffs wouldnt have been usefull long term anyways because sooner or later everybody would have developed tech to get out easily.

Still sad that they swung the nerfbat at him like a mofo tho.

Imagine what they will do to a-list when ppl start crying about his insane tick throw options out of every string.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
i just hope that a-list and SD dont get touched(to nerfs), just fix whats suposed to work as design (114 not hiting mid on 4, clone upercut whiffing after 113 in some cases).
 
Z

zaccbarias

Noob
Hi guys.

Playing around in training mode, attempting to beat out kunglao spin with a blocked 113 skrc then 1, is it actually possible?

Btw 114 skrc 11 string either beats out the spin, you are in so much +frames that the spin doesnt even come out. Also possible with a blocked f+2,4 with a little tighter timing. :)

thanks.
 
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