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General/Other - Kano Kano General Discussion Thread

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
That would be amazing! Thank you.

I'm currently out of the country at the moment and can't play online, but anytime after the 8th would work. I'll PM you once I'm back.

I'm loving this community. I've been gaming for almost the last 20 years, and have never found a community where everyone wants to help each other be the best they can be. But, then, I mainly played FPS games.
Haha its no prob man. Hit me up whenever.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Idk, I think most of us in the Kano forum are just trying to figure out as much shit as possible, any squabbles would most likely be a side effect of not breaking anybody's ribs in too long.

edit: in fact I just a few days ago COMPLETELY changed how I approaching playing Commando kano all together after a bunch of input from a local guy who is much more knowledgeable then me.
Are you referring to your personal style vs. certain opponents or a new general approach that we should be looking at to cause more sternum pain?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Now that I got my shitposting fix for the day out the way, back to taking TYM seriously.

I recently picked up Kano the other day for two reasons 1) I had originally planned to co-main him when he was revealed 2) I feel like playing Kano for awhile will make me a better fighting game player in the long run since he requires you to outplay your opponent with on point footsies, solid zoning and great spacing to win and doesn't rely on braindead 50/50's and "THETPLAY!"

So, my new fellow Black Dragon brethren, what pointers could you give me to improve my game? What do I absolutely need to know and practice with him in order to maximize his potential? Anything specific about Cybernetic as far as knife chucking to keep my opponent at bay, pressure and whiff punishing? When should I go for the chest pump buff in Cutthroat and what are the most optimal combos I should be doing? Is Commando viable, and if so what are the best ways to utilize his parries and command grabs?

Thanks in advanced, and feed me with as much info as possible mates!

P.S. MK1 skin Kano is godlike.

To continue where i left off.

As i said before, you have a few different ways to get plus frames on hit or block.

It's important to note that none of his follow ups are guaranteed on block, but that doesn't mean you don't have options.

Kano's pressure is Cyber is all about conditioning. While he is a zoner at heart, sometimes if you need to catch up on a lifelead or obtain one on a hard to zone character, this is what you will need to do.

First and foremost: Kano's B1. Though it recieved an adjustment in the last patch it is still a viable tool for opening people up, but it requires making reads.

The b1 itself starts in 8 frames, recovers in 9, and is -2 on block. The full duration of the move is 17 frames. Because it is part of other strings, you have a legitimate mix up between b1, b13, b13 mb knives, and b13, 1+3.

B13 is only -1 on block, so you're safe if it's blocked and you could try to check your opponent with a poke after, but it isn't guaranteed.

B13,1+3 is not safe, and is punishable by moves like Kung Lao's spin, so keep that in mind. It's great on hit though, as it is + enough for a follow up b2 unless they armor or backdash, it leaves them standing and gives you follow ups in the corner.

When i said that this pressure is read based, i meant that you and your opponent have to make reads. You can't do b1 over and over and you can't get predictable with your patterns because they can armor, poke, etc.

With option selecting, it is possible to option select laser during this to try and blow up poke attempts, but i personally can't option select b1 into laser consistently, perhaps someone else can.

B1 is your go-to anti air of choice. With it, you can hit almost anything out of the air and convert into a combo. The hitbox is large.

B312 is another decent string. B31 is + 1 on block and starts low, and B312 is -8 on block with some pushback. Because the string has no gaps you can stagger it and try to condition them to let go of block early. The move knocks back on hit.

Kano's damage in this variation isn't great. He gets a little more in the corner but overall he is lacking in this department. The idea is that he gets his damage through whiff punishing and zoning, but his combo damage could be higher.

You can convert damage off MB Knives on hit. Off any of his starters and even full screen you can get 20-25%.

From full screen, after mb knives hit, you have to immediate run into b23 + ender of choice. 1+3 for the restand or Kano ball for the hard knock down.

The real bread and butter of Cyber Kano is knives. 11 frame start up that is quick, hits mid, and does 5% on hit or so. The idea is to aggravate the opponent with knives and bait then into unsafe jumps, run-ins, etc. Once they commit to something unsafe to approach, you punish and put them back to full screen to start the zoning all over again.

Knives also open up all of your footsie tools. Once they start slowing down their movement in anticipation of a projectile you xan run in, d4/f4 and go into the options discussed earlier or whiff punish with f4/Kano ball.

Up ball is your go-to for reversal punishes. It's six frames, so it can punish a lot of things on a Reversal that Kano would normally struggle with.

Your other go-to, quick punisher is 112.

I hope all this helps.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Are you referring to your personal style vs. certain opponents or a new general approach that we should be looking at to cause more sternum pain?
More a tweaked general approach for myself. Different ways to condition and pressure. I don't think it's really anything that people haven't been doing, just a mental gameplan.
 

ando1184

Noob
To continue where i left off.

As i said before, you have a few different ways to get plus frames on hit or block.

It's important to note that none of his follow ups are guaranteed on block, but that doesn't mean you don't have options.

Kano's pressure is Cyber is all about conditioning. While he is a zoner at heart, sometimes if you need to catch up on a lifelead or obtain one on a hard to zone character, this is what you will need to do.

First and foremost: Kano's B1. Though it recieved an adjustment in the last patch it is still a viable tool for opening people up, but it requires making reads.

The b1 itself starts in 8 frames, recovers in 9, and is -2 on block. The full duration of the move is 17 frames. Because it is part of other strings, you have a legitimate mix up between b1, b13, b13 mb knives, and b13, 1+3.

B13 is only -1 on block, so you're safe if it's blocked and you could try to check your opponent with a poke after, but it isn't guaranteed.

B13,1+3 is not safe, and is punishable by moves like Kung Lao's spin, so keep that in mind. It's great on hit though, as it is + enough for a follow up b2 unless they armor or backdash, it leaves them standing and gives you follow ups in the corner.

When i said that this pressure is read based, i meant that you and your opponent have to make reads. You can't do b1 over and over and you can't get predictable with your patterns because they can armor, poke, etc.

With option selecting, it is possible to option select laser during this to try and blow up poke attempts, but i personally can't option select b1 into laser consistently, perhaps someone else can.

B1 is your go-to anti air of choice. With it, you can hit almost anything out of the air and convert into a combo. The hitbox is large.

B312 is another decent string. B31 is + 1 on block and starts low, and B312 is -8 on block with some pushback. Because the string has no gaps you can stagger it and try to condition them to let go of block early. The move knocks back on hit.

Kano's damage in this variation isn't great. He gets a little more in the corner but overall he is lacking in this department. The idea is that he gets his damage through whiff punishing and zoning, but his combo damage could be higher.

You can convert damage off MB Knives on hit. Off any of his starters and even full screen you can get 20-25%.

From full screen, after mb knives hit, you have to immediate run into b23 + ender of choice. 1+3 for the restand or Kano ball for the hard knock down.

The real bread and butter of Cyber Kano is knives. 11 frame start up that is quick, hits mid, and does 5% on hit or so. The idea is to aggravate the opponent with knives and bait then into unsafe jumps, run-ins, etc. Once they commit to something unsafe to approach, you punish and put them back to full screen to start the zoning all over again.

Knives also open up all of your footsie tools. Once they start slowing down their movement in anticipation of a projectile you xan run in, d4/f4 and go into the options discussed earlier or whiff punish with f4/Kano ball.

Up ball is your go-to for reversal punishes. It's six frames, so it can punish a lot of things on a Reversal that Kano would normally struggle with.

Your other go-to, quick punisher is 112.

I hope all this helps.
Good stuff overall, but the b13,1+3 I have to strongly urge against. In no way is it worth the risk, people just aren't punishing it properly at all but it is full combo punishable by everyone. It's better to do b13,2+4; yeh it says it's -8 or whatever but the pushback makes it the safer option and it's hit confirmable if you have the meter. That's my opinion on the matter anyway :)
 

Dukmunky

Arms Dealer, including all 4 of Goro's
alright guys I have an amateur question about cutthroat. I find myself having trouble with punishing because 112 has no reach and Misses low profiling opponents, wow back three is a bit too slow online, and b1 has literally zero range. What's the best way to wiff punish, or quickly respond to a string that's between -2 and -4, but puts the opponent a bit too far for 112?
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
alright guys I have an amateur question about cutthroat. I find myself having trouble with punishing because 112 has no reach and Misses low profiling opponents, wow back three is a bit too slow online, and b1 has literally zero range. What's the best way to wiff punish, or quickly respond to a string that's between -2 and -4, but puts the opponent a bit too far for 112?
f2 string
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
Do you guys agree that cybernetic Kano loses to characters with strong mixups if the opposing player decides to never jump against the knives and just blocks and walks forward? I could be wrong but it seems to me like this strategy kind of destroys him.

Knives have low pushback on block and walk speed in this game is good so you can quickly get in on Kano by blocking and walking forward. Bad players will jump and get blown up by b1 but I don't think you need to risk this - just walk forward.

Once you get closer - Kano has good normals but he has no good mixups. Mixing up b1, b1, with b13 and b1 grab is mediocre compared to other characters tools. Ex knives into grab vs b1 is slightly better but too expensive (in meter terms) for what it gets you. If you are using these tools against anyone with actual MKX offensive tools (i.e., D vorah, Erron black, any good character), you will lose unless you massively outplay your opponent.

It seems to me like Kano appears better than he really is right now because opponents make a lot of mistakes (jump a lot, try to poke too much against pressure when they should just block and take the throw), and he has a simple game plan that doesn't change too much in a lot of matchups.

I think he's bottom ten at best if he's not patched. That doesn't mean he's bad - I think the bottom ten in this game might be the best bottom ten I've seen in an FG. He can certainly win if you outplay your opponent. But I really doubt there are ten characters worse than him.

My honest opinion.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
More a tweaked general approach for myself. Different ways to condition and pressure. I don't think it's really anything that people haven't been doing, just a mental gameplan.
Good stuff. That is something that I have to do as well.
 

Dukmunky

Arms Dealer, including all 4 of Goro's
Do you guys agree that cybernetic Kano loses to characters with strong mixups if the opposing player decides to never jump against the knives and just blocks and walks forward? I could be wrong but it seems to me like this strategy kind of destroys him.

Knives have low pushback on block and walk speed in this game is good so you can quickly get in on Kano by blocking and walking forward. Bad players will jump and get blown up by b1 but I don't think you need to risk this - just walk forward.

Once you get closer - Kano has good normals but he has no good mixups. Mixing up b1, b1, with b13 and b1 grab is mediocre compared to other characters tools. Ex knives into grab vs b1 is slightly better but too expensive (in meter terms) for what it gets you. If you are using these tools against anyone with actual MKX offensive tools (i.e., D vorah, Erron black, any good character), you will lose unless you massively outplay your opponent.

It seems to me like Kano appears better than he really is right now because opponents make a lot of mistakes (jump a lot, try to poke too much against pressure when they should just block and take the throw), and he has a simple game plan that doesn't change too much in a lot of matchups.

I think he's bottom ten at best if he's not patched. That doesn't mean he's bad - I think the bottom ten in this game might be the best bottom ten I've seen in an FG. He can certainly win if you outplay your opponent. But I really doubt there are ten characters worse than him.

My honest opinion.
i agree - I am always surprised to see other character getting big buffs when the only changes to an already mid tier Kano was a big fat nerf
 
Do you guys agree that cybernetic Kano loses to characters with strong mixups if the opposing player decides to never jump against the knives and just blocks and walks forward? I could be wrong but it seems to me like this strategy kind of destroys him.
I think if you play someone this patient you have to do run up throw like 5 times per round.
 

BigBiscuit

Just Blaze. YOLO.
I'm thinking of maining Kano. Cybernatic has the tools for heavy zoning and people have compared him to Guile/Sagat in Street Fighter. Anyone agree?

Does anyone have any thoughts of Street Fighter counterparts for Kano's other variations? I'm coming from a SF background so this really helps me better understand the character. Thanks!
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
If anybody thinks Kano is bad, I'm sorry but you just don't understand the game nor the character.
I'm very open to being wrong, but can you tell me what's wrong with my comments on the previous page? I think he can certainly win if you outplay your opponent. Just that he has to work harder than many, mostly due to his lack of mixups and damage. (I'm talking about cybernetic - I have yet to form an opinion on cutthroat)
 
I'm thinking of maining Kano. Cybernatic has the tools for heavy zoning and people have compared him to Guile/Sagat in Street Fighter. Anyone agree?

Does anyone have any thoughts of Street Fighter counterparts for Kano's other variations? I'm coming from a SF background so this really helps me better understand the character. Thanks!
Id say hes kinda like ryu...jack of all trades kinda characrer

cyber is like ryu with better fireballs
commando is ryu with a command grab (though command grabs are much worse in mk than sf)
cutthroat is like ryu if his overhead did 1/3 their health lol.
 
I'm very open to being wrong, but can you tell me what's wrong with my comments on the previous page? I think he can certainly win if you outplay your opponent. Just that he has to work harder than many, mostly due to his lack of mixups and damage. (I'm talking about cybernetic - I have yet to form an opinion on cutthroat)
its true... I think you need really strong fundamentals to win with kano to win at the highest level. Its doable... just harder.

Also cutthroat kano is really good imo, you should try him if you feel you have a hard time zoning people out. If you count using cyber and cutthroat as the same character, no way kano is bottom 10 lol.

just dont play commando kano, that struggle is real
 

Dukmunky

Arms Dealer, including all 4 of Goro's
I think cutthroat could be top tier if the confirm strings into (Ex) power up worked consistently.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
I'm thinking of maining Kano. Cybernatic has the tools for heavy zoning and people have compared him to Guile/Sagat in Street Fighter. Anyone agree?

Does anyone have any thoughts of Street Fighter counterparts for Kano's other variations? I'm coming from a SF background so this really helps me better understand the character. Thanks!
People probably compare him to guile because his knives are awesome and fast and he has upball which = flash kick kinda.

Command grabs don't "Suck" in MK by ANY fucking means lol. You can get them off of numerous different tick setups as well as in juggles. All you people who love to shit on commando because it lacks obvious viability should really consider playing him a little LOL.
 

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
I think cutthroat could be top tier if the confirm strings into (Ex) power up worked consistently.
They work fine its just pretty difficult. I think he's top tier already even before I know about that stuff.


I'm very open to being wrong, but can you tell me what's wrong with my comments on the previous page? I think he can certainly win if you outplay your opponent. Just that he has to work harder than many, mostly due to his lack of mixups and damage. (I'm talking about cybernetic - I have yet to form an opinion on cutthroat)

My intention was not to bash anyone's opinion, as I was just scrolling through and seen some statements here and there. Now sure, cybernetic Kano lacks the crazy high lows that some other characters (and cutthroat) have to offer. And while it may seem like you're working hard, I never felt that way. Because people always end up killing themselves trying to get in. Kano has a great Down 3/4. Easily one of the best in the game. A low string that is +1 on block and confirmable. And then there are grabs which are very strong in this game. When you mix all of that in you can play a very solid up close game because you're almost always going to be safe. Now on top of that, you have Back 1, which, while it is -2 on block, the entire string after is a safe, true, confirmable string that you can always use and mix up between B1, B13 and B13, 2+4 (unsafe to very few characters, optional Meter burn that wont come out on block). B1 is also a very consistent anti air for when they get frustrated in trying to get past you on the ground.

Mid projectiles are always good too, and the EX one blows up armor, is plus on block and confirmable anywhere on screen, including full screen.

Don't think about it as working hard. You're really not. You're the one setting the pace for the match and your objective is to just try and remain in control of the ground while they do all these risky things just to get one hit on you (by then you'll probably have a breaker anyway)

As far as damage goes, 25% no bar from 1 hit is good. You have to hit them 4 times (less because of the chip and grabs they'll take getting in).
 

BigBiscuit

Just Blaze. YOLO.
Id say hes kinda like ryu...jack of all trades kinda characrer

cyber is like ryu with better fireballs
commando is ryu with a command grab (though command grabs are much worse in mk than sf)
cutthroat is like ryu if his overhead did 1/3 their health lol.
Thanks for the write up.

I appreciate you not grabbing the low hanging fruit and saying Blanka because of his Kano Ball.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
My intention was not to bash anyone's opinion, as I was just scrolling through and seen some statements here and there. Now sure, cybernetic Kano lacks the crazy high lows that some other characters (and cutthroat) have to offer. And while it may seem like you're working hard, I never felt that way. Because people always end up killing themselves trying to get in. Kano has a great Down 3/4. Easily one of the best in the game. A low string that is +1 on block and confirmable. And then there are grabs which are very strong in this game. When you mix all of that in you can play a very solid up close game because you're almost always going to be safe. Now on top of that, you have Back 1, which, while it is -2 on block, the entire string after is a safe, true, confirmable string that you can always use and mix up between B1, B13 and B13, 2+4 (unsafe to very few characters, optional Meter burn that wont come out on block). B1 is also a very consistent anti air for when they get frustrated in trying to get past you on the ground.

Mid projectiles are always good too, and the EX one blows up armor, is plus on block and confirmable anywhere on screen, including full screen.

Don't think about it as working hard. You're really not. You're the one setting the pace for the match and your objective is to just try and remain in control of the ground while they do all these risky things just to get one hit on you (by then you'll probably have a breaker anyway)

As far as damage goes, 25% no bar from 1 hit is good. You have to hit them 4 times (less because of the chip and grabs they'll take getting in).
@Rude @Youphemism this is how we roll in the big NY.

Don't forget me if you find another venue for the events @MrInsaynne because I'll definitely be down again.