ask scorpion thread

[OutworldKeith]

Characters w/ a fast starting normal and a good dash for example Jax can get full combo off of :en teleport

But blocking it gives Scorpion a good amount of frame adv. this is something you should know or consider learning if you also play Scorp

Only a few characters in the game can escape it successfully

 

[GGA soonk]

If you block it Scorpion has advantage and you can't interrupt a 11/33 spear. Anything else you might be able to downpoke but why chance it?

What character do you play? We can give a little more info if we know.

Basic responses to the EX Tele:
1. Block, then keep blocking.
2. Duck and D1 immediately, follow up if possible.
3. Duck and D2 afer first hit whiffs.
4. Duck and throw after first hit whiffs. The throw is useful if they're trying to get out of a corner and you put them right back in. Plus it's demoralizing to get thrown out of that move.
5. If you want to be across the screen, duck the first hit and take the second hit.

Do not jump. If you get hit with EX Tele in the air, expect to get full comboed off of it. Something like EX teleport punch, another teleport punch, dash 111 spear, F21 teleport punch. Now you're stuck guessing the mixup.

 

[emerc]

correct.. 2 is high, 1+2 is overhead..

if 2 hits.. you can input whatever you want, because your combo is confirmed by the 2 connecting

but what I'm saying is that if you wait to input your spear/teleport AFTER the overhead hits(which means you waited for the confirmation of the overhead hit).. you will wiff your spear/tele, and takedown is a gamble on whether the opponent blocks low after an extremely slow shoulder thrust..

Thus, if the 2 does not connect, 1+2 is a gamble.. meaning... the overhead is not hit confirmable.. which is what the whole point of this explanation is.. the string is not hit-confirmable.. you have to commit.

 

[Deadly Torcher]

If you block it Scorpion has advantage and you can't interrupt a 11/33 spear. Anything else you might be able to downpoke but why chance it?

What character do you play? We can give a little more info if we know.

Basic responses to the EX Tele:
1. Block, then keep blocking.
2. Duck and D1 immediately, follow up if possible.
3. Duck and D2 afer first hit whiffs.
4. Duck and throw after first hit whiffs. The throw is useful if they're trying to get out of a corner and you put them right back in. Plus it's demoralizing to get thrown out of that move.
5. If you want to be across the screen, duck the first hit and take the second hit.

Do not jump. If you get hit with EX Tele in the air, expect to get full comboed off of it. Something like EX teleport punch, another teleport punch, dash 111 spear, F21 teleport punch. Now you're stuck guessing the mixup.

I use a different fighter nearly every fight, Reptile, Scorpion, Sub Zero, CSZ, Ermac, Rain, Kenshi, Noob, Smoke, Shang Tsung. Basically any1 whos combos I looked at on TYM & are doable. I guess im not just patient enough, I have to jump or try to attack out of it & fail, my defence is weak. I'll try everything ppl have suggested & hopefully it helps me out.

 

[GGA soonk]

Hm, well off the top of my head, with Reptile and SZ you should at least be able to D1 into slide, CSZ, Rain, Noob, Shang I have no idea, Ermac you can D1 into Force Lift full combo, Kenshi you might be able to D1 into Rising Karma F32 Spirit Charge, and Smoke you can prolly D1 into Smoke Bomb and follow up with something.

You can hit him out of it in the air, but a small punish is better than just a punch.

 

[cyke_out]

Hm, well off the top of my head, with Reptile and SZ you should at least be able to D1 into slide, CSZ, Rain, Noob, Shang I have no idea, Ermac you can D1 into Force Lift full combo, Kenshi you might be able to D1 into Rising Karma F32 Spirit Charge, and Smoke you can prolly D1 into Smoke Bomb and follow up with something.

You can hit him out of it in the air, but a small punish is better than just a punch.

In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming

I had nothing to add, other than awesome sig.

 

[Saint]

correct.. 2 is high, 1+2 is overhead..

if 2 hits.. you can input whatever you want, because your combo is confirmed by the 2 connecting

but what I'm saying is that if you wait to input your spear/teleport AFTER the overhead hits(which means you waited for the confirmation of the overhead hit).. you will wiff your spear/tele, and takedown is a gamble on whether the opponent blocks low after an extremely slow shoulder thrust..

Thus, if the 2 does not connect, 1+2 is a gamble.. meaning... the overhead is not hit confirmable.. which is what the whole point of this explanation is.. the string is not hit-confirmable.. you have to commit.

Word, that's what I've been saying all along.

 

[shoshinsha]

Yes, you do have to commit to the 2 1+2. But it's very easy, if the 2 is blocked or whiffs, to opt to remain safe by inputting the takedown instead of the teleport. Of course you can't confirm whether the 1+2 hit or not, but you can't confirm that with b2 or f4, either. So 2 1+2 is a bit less risky for you and a bit easier to guard for your opponent.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Yes, you do have to commit to the 2 1+2. But it's very easy, if the 2 is blocked or whiffs, to opt to remain safe by inputting the takedown instead of the teleport. Of course you can't confirm whether the 1+2 hit or not, but you can't confirm that with b2 or f4, either. So 2 1+2 is a bit less risky for you and a bit easier to guard for your opponent.

Ok so this whole time I was assuming you meant the 1+2 alone can be hit confirmed. Anyway if you're counting on the 2 hitting (which is the only way you can actually confirm) then the 1+2 overhead makes no sense because 1 it will probably be block and 2 if it does hit after the blocked 2 you're just going to get a combo into takedown because you seen your 2 was blocked. Really you're doing nothing but limiting your pressure. You could just use 1,1 in the same exact situation and get much better results with way more options.

Here is why

1. 1,1,1 is safe without any type of canceled move
2. 1 has a better hitbox than 2
3. If the 1 hits you can confirm into 1,1 spear. (which makes 2 obsolete because you would be using it for the same thing)
4. The 1,1,1 string could be stopped early at any time to restart the string for more chip or to fish for a counter hit which can potentially be confirmed into spear.
5. You get nice throw setups off of the 1 string also

Really theres no reason to use the 2, 1+2 string because the 1,1,1 string does everything it can do except the gimmicky overhead that nobody will get hit by.

 

[Saint]

Yes, you do have to commit to the 2 1+2. But it's very easy, if the 2 is blocked or whiffs, to opt to remain safe by inputting the takedown instead of the teleport. Of course you can't confirm whether the 1+2 hit or not, but you can't confirm that with b2 or f4, either. So 2 1+2 is a bit less risky for you and a bit easier to guard for your opponent.

So did we have a missunderstanding or?

I'm still very confused, in the beginning of our conversation you said that there's no need to commit to it. Now you say there is, but then you continue and say that if the 2 is blocked or whiffs... The thing is, if you have waited enough with inputting 1+2 to see the 2 be blocked or whiffed, the 1+2 won't even come out.

Am I wrong here?

The thing is, if you're gonna mix it up, you're already in risk by doing so. In my opinion, all you need to use is the B2, F4 and throw.

There's no need to throw in the 2 1+2, I don't see one anyway.

 

[PimpUigi]

You commit to the 1+2
After 1+2 comes out, you decide to go slide or teleport based on if they blocked the 2 or not.

gg no re

B2/F4/Throw is easily stopped by crouch blocking, and listening for the B2, you can let go of down in time if you hear it.

 

[shoshinsha]

So did we have a missunderstanding or?

I'm still very confused, in the beginning of our conversation you said that there's no need to commit to it. Now you say there is, but then you continue and say that if the 2 is blocked or whiffs... The thing is, if you have waited enough with inputting 1+2 to see the 2 be blocked or whiffed, the 1+2 won't even come out.

Am I wrong here?

The thing is, if you're gonna mix it up, you're already in risk by doing so. In my opinion, all you need to use is the B2, F4 and throw.

There's no need to throw in the 2 1+2, I don't see one anyway.

At this point, I'm not sure who correctly or incorrectly understood what. What I'm trying to say is that the 2 1+2 is a good option to mix in to the vortex occasionally. It's safe if you want it to be, whereas both b2 and f4 are not. It can be confusing when your opponent is used to the mixup coming on the first hit (b2 or f4). And if the 2 whiffs it means your opponent is crouching, while the follow up is an overhead.

 

[PimpUigi]

if the 2 whiffs it means your opponent is crouching, while the follow up is an overhead.

But it doesn't mean they weren't fuzzy guarding.
I'd go for the takedown if I saw my 2 whiff.

There's total time for hit confirm on the string though.
It's just like Johnny Cage's F3,2 string they just fixed. The reason it was so much better than the more damaging F3,3xxnut punch was because F3,2 was hit confirmable into the nut punch.

 

[16 Bit]

There is one frame difference between f+4 and b+2 and the sound for b+2 doesn't begin until the move has hit. WTF are you guys talking about?

 

[Scoot Magee]

There is one frame difference between f+4 and b+2 and the sound for b+2 doesn't begin until the move has hit. WTF are you guys talking about?

This is true but it is possible to block both options consistently. Block low first and you have 17 frames to decide if you want to release down and block high. I've had players do it to me consistently at valley stream. You can work around that and delay the f+4 or b+2 after the JIP to catch them when trying to transition but then they can just poke you out. If they try to poke you out you can just go for 1,1 after JIP and hit confirm into spear.

 

[Saint]

There is one frame difference between f+4 and b+2 and the sound for b+2 doesn't begin until the move has hit. WTF are you guys talking about?

That's what I'm talking about lol

These guys are on something that slows reality down, ALOT

 

[Scoot Magee]

If you were talking about just a basic fuzzy guard then the whole 1 frame difference would hold a ton of weight. What it comes down to is the person being able to recognize the difference between the low and the overhead within 17 frames, which is almost 1/3 of a second. It's completely practical and is confirmed by some of the best players in NY that it can be guarded consistently. Part of what makes it blockable is that fact that in the vortex you know something is coming right after the JIP. It's not like you're just reacting on the fly. Thats why delaying the inputs can work.

 

[Big Pampering]

scorpion

just for the sake of knowing, is 2-2+1 safe on block? is there any frame advantage on it?

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

That was a pretty awesome vid haha. I am unable to answer all your questions, but know this. Check does all his combos against Sheeva, who if you did not know, has a larger hitbox than most. So many of the combos that check does on her, doesn't necessarily work on anyone else.

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

Ohh wow, I have a PS3, so the patch isn't out yet, but I find that even in the pre patch, take down is pretty useful. It's a quick low that does 10% damage, and has pretty good range. When it becomes a safe move....... I think that, and the combination of the best vortex in the game can easily at least put him in a lower high tier.

 

[Insomniac]

Eh, after a few days of messing with the patch, I'm pretty disappointed. Some notes:

Takedown now seems to work better on wakeup, but if you are a few frames late, you're still utterly screwed by anything and everything.

I feel like the takedown hitbox has been increased, since I'm succeeding less at sliding under projectiles. Lag perhaps?

Takedown still sucks a big one if you whiff due to someone jumping over it. Recovery on block is significantly better, but I'm finding it to be a guessing game whether people will stand their ground or jump - guess wrong and be punished.

Ex-takedown is f'ing brilliant. Takedown followed by ex-takedown has won me a ton of matches already. Sometimes I feel like it needs just a little extra distance.

In other news, the Kitana scaling nerf wasn't hard enough. Ran into a guy with a trueskill of 42 who was pulling 52% combos every round without fail. The Kung Lao nerf only helps against noobs, he's otherwise still a cunt. Still waiting to see the difference in Ermac scaling, and the Raiden teleport nerf. Desyncs are wayyyy less common now. Cyrax is less of a bitch to fight, since he can't do crazy long combos as easy anymore. They really need to do something about Reptile and Millena when playing online - with even minor lag, it's still a bitch to punish sometimes.

 

[Scoot Magee]

They can't make changes to characters because they're harder to punish in lag. Any changes to the game based on online play would be stupid. If anything the netcode needs to be fixed which is probably not happening.

 

[Insomniac]

They can't make changes to characters because they're harder to punish in lag. Any changes to the game based on online play would be stupid. If anything the netcode needs to be fixed which is probably not happening.

I'm aware, but they can compensate for it in the netcode. For example, if the lag is over a threshold, increase the wakeup and recovery frames by 1 or 2 for certain faster characters, and increase the window to counter throws. That way you're not giving Millena unpunishable teleport/sai attacks, Reptile unpunishable dashes, Raiden garaunteed throws after teleport, and ZepTrip his bullshit unpunishable Sheeva grab loop. There is nothing I hate more than absolutely destroying some guy with noticeable lag, only to have him pick a character just to abuse the shit out of the lag.

 

[Bildslash]

I tested it and it works great so far with + . This warrants more testing, but I can tell it completely shutdowns any wake up options save blocking. Though it has to be used with caution because afterall + doesn't grant any advantage and the opponent can hit you back (accidentally or not) in their wake up attempt (now a regular special attack because they are no longer laying down).

I'd like to hear some input from Slips. IMO this tech is a great tool for Scorpion's metagame.

That was a pretty awesome vid haha. I am unable to answer all your questions, but know this. Check does all his combos against Sheeva, who if you did not know, has a larger hitbox than most. So many of the combos that check does on her, doesn't necessarily work on anyone else.

Please, read again his post, carefully this time; specially the first bit before the video embed.

Kedra is not talking about landing an incredibly hard combo. But talking about Scorpion having similar tech like JC's sweep or Kenshi's BnB juggle starter r + + ) wherein you can force your opponent into standing position with a low hit/poke taking away from them their wake up options completely.

 

[OutworldKeith]

The best follow up to + would be ,

has anyone tested this on a live opponent?

but on another note the timing would be strict and this is very risky when there is no guaranteed damage not to mention Scorp has much better options

and in the video it should be considered that not once did he use + or + with Scorpion