General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

[KillaGthug4Life]

Starting to feel @Krayzie 's pain in the Kano matchup.

Just got done in a long set vs Cybernetic Kano... lost about 15-7 -_-

Thing is, when he was full screen throwing knives, I felt helpless. I was taking mad chip damage, while he built a ton of meter. Recovery was so fast that Swarm wasn't even reliable for a trade option outside of bad knife throws, and jumping just feels like a terrible idea, even though you do need to jump sometimes. Anti-airing was difficult because he could use Air Ball to change his trajectory. He has the pokes and walkspeed to play footsies with her also, he can get in there, poke with d+3 and get out just as quickly, or frame trap you, make you press a bad button then easy whiff punish. Only saving grace is that his damage doesn't compare if you can Wasp Cancel, but that's a really small weakness for all the strengths he has.

Has anyone, anyone at all, got any ideas how you'd go about playing this matchup? (maybe I should make a matchup thread, but I haven't been playing D'Vorah long enough to have anything too useful atm)

I have been having lots of trouble with this matchup as well. I will suggest, however, that using run inbetween projectiles is very useful. It works similar to dash blocking in MK9 and covers a decent amount of space. I can't provide any help for his ball shennanigans... I got nothing. But this helps beat out zoning, they often get desperate when you're closing in and do something stupid.

 

[Take$$$]

Starting to feel @Krayzie 's pain in the Kano matchup.

Just got done in a long set vs Cybernetic Kano... lost about 15-7 -_-

Thing is, when he was full screen throwing knives, I felt helpless. I was taking mad chip damage, while he built a ton of meter. Recovery was so fast that Swarm wasn't even reliable for a trade option outside of bad knife throws, and jumping just feels like a terrible idea, even though you do need to jump sometimes. Anti-airing was difficult because he could use Air Ball to change his trajectory. He has the pokes and walkspeed to play footsies with her also, he can get in there, poke with d+3 and get out just as quickly, or frame trap you, make you press a bad button then easy whiff punish. Only saving grace is that his damage doesn't compare if you can Wasp Cancel, but that's a really small weakness for all the strengths he has.

Has anyone, anyone at all, got any ideas how you'd go about playing this matchup? (maybe I should make a matchup thread, but I haven't been playing D'Vorah long enough to have anything too useful atm)

I can't say I play against good Kanos, but what's helped me in the few offline matches I've had is just confidently eating chip and walking/running him to the corner. Eventually they will delay a knife throw, and that's when you immediately db1 even if it means you eat a knife since it gets you in. I also stay outside of throw range and just block on his wakeup every time.

But again, I don't know if this works on good Kanos. Hope it might give someone some ideas though.

 

[TopTierHarley]

So I was reading the broken R2 thread and decided to change my block button to R1 and test WC on it.

Conclusion:
Much more responsive. So much in fact I can get B1 WC. I highly suggest switching over and testing it out yourselves.

 

[Take$$$]

So I was reading the broken R2 thread and decided to change my block button to R1 and test WC on it.

Conclusion:
Much more responsive. So much in fact I can get B1 WC. I highly suggest switching over and testing it out yourselves.

Thank you for reminding me to practice my b1 combos. Have them down now apparently!

Good find too. I find r1 to be a lot better when I use my ds4, and on my hori fc4 once the r2 is broken in its perfect for this. But damn, r1 on the ds4 does make it so much easier its insane. Funny what 1 button change can do.

Going to be weird adjusting to the difference if I have to swap mid tournament though.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Thank you for reminding me to practice my b1 combos. Have them down now apparently!

Good find too. I find r1 to be a lot better when I use my ds4, and on my hori fc4 once the r2 is broken in its perfect for this. But damn, r1 on the ds4 does make it so much easier its insane. Funny what 1 button change can do.

Going to be weird adjusting to the difference if I have to swap mid tournament though.

Yea, I can't believe the difference it made. I'm fine having to adjust since I can finally do B1 cancels lol.

 

[Take$$$]

So I've been playing with b1 wasp cancels more and I've got them down to almost 95% consistency against a training dummy, and the way I see it there are 3 ways to do it:

1) Know exactly when the wasp grenade comes out and instantly run. This makes it so you don't have to cancel the run itself as early. I don't use this one since b1 xx df1 is weird for me to input and my fingers are usually not positioned correctly, but for those that don't have this problem this is prob your best bet.

2) Hold the wasp grenade a little longer and instantly cancel into 2. This let's you reposition your fingers if you have the problem I do so the instant cancel is easier. This is the way I do it.

3) Is basically a combination of the two. No idea what the advantages are but it works.

 

[Krackatoa]

Sure.

Have fun boys.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Sure.

Have fun boys.

D'Vorah pls

 

[Krackatoa]

You can roll out of it and shit, but it might be a nice setup to keep corner pressure. I found I could beat some wakeup reversals in the corner fairly handily (A big deal with Liu Kang, since D'vorah has trouble punishing EX Dargon Kacks)

Edit: Also, it might totally fuck with their inputs...

 

[Take$$$]

Sure.

Have fun boys.

I love you

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

What's a full combo we can use that still has good damage but keeps this tech?

 

[Zoidberg747]

What's a full combo we can use that still has good damage but keeps this tech?

Couldnt you do something into one of the meaty swarm resets? Like f11 EX Wasp jip 212 swarm b21 swarm

 

[BenGmanUk]

You can throw a NJP into that before b21.

Been trying to find decent combo ending in 113 for hkd and swarm setup. Always seem to whiff the 3 though.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Couldnt you do something into one of the meaty swarm resets? Like f11 EX Wasp jip 212 swarm b21 swarm

No, the b21 swarm doesnt give you enough time to get in position for wakeup reversal. Also, the wakeup reversal only works on hit of Swarm. The b21 is a reset knockdown, I mean if the Swarm after the b21 actually hits then you could do the walk wakeup reversal. Or you get get a 30+% combo. Personally I'm going to take the damage in that instance.

 

[Take$$$]

Got bodied at Paradise Found, tournament nerves are killer and everyone is so good you cant afford to drop combo after combo after combo. But @Zyphox is awesome and gave me some great advice to get over the tournament jitters, so hopefully I'll perform much better at ECT and beyond since I'm planning on traveling a lot.

The Kano matchup is brutal but I think its very winnable at the same time. Venomous might be better than Swarm Queen for that matchup, but I'll need to play it more. The Erron Black matchup feels pretty good for D'Vorah tbh, but Arma still wrecked me anyway.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Not sure if this is already known, but you after you cancel a string into wasp grenade, just press forward and block and the run cancel will come out. The forward input from wasp grenade gets saved so all you have to do is press F+ Block into your next string. B1 ~WC just got easier.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Not sure if this is already known, but you after you cancel a string into wasp grenade, just press forward and block and the run cancel will come out. The forward input from wasp grenade gets saved so all you have to do is press F+ Block into your next string. B1 ~WC just got easier.

@haketh posted that a couple weeks ago. Might try and do it more, although im nervous about trying to redo my muscle memory.

 

[Take$$$]

Not sure if this is already known, but you after you cancel a string into wasp grenade, just press forward and block and the run cancel will come out. The forward input from wasp grenade gets saved so all you have to do is press F+ Block into your next string. B1 ~WC just got easier.

Did not know that.

Thanks!

 

[Tomo009]

Hmm? I can get it to work, but not when I don't know that it is going to hit. Linking off b1 ~ wasp ~ run is tight enough when you know it will hit, is there a way to get the cancel such that it will still happen on block because b1 is unsafe on its own.

 

[TopTierHarley]

@haketh posted that a couple weeks ago. Might try and do it more, although im nervous about trying to redo my muscle memory.

Ah, figured it wasn't something new. I had to redo my muscle memory in fear of breaking my R2. So during the switch to R1 I tried new stuff out.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Hmm? I can get it to work, but not when I don't know that it is going to hit. Linking off b1 ~ wasp ~ run is tight enough when you know it will hit, is there a way to get the cancel such that it will still happen on block because b1 is unsafe on its own.

Canceling into a special has different timing on hit and block. Best way to test would be putting the AI to block random combos and get used to the timing of on hit and block.

 

[Tomo009]

I can't react fast enough to get the combo on hit is my issue there. I can react fine to block and get a pretty much perfect dash, but I will have reacted too slow to get the dash into link on hit.

 

[Take$$$]

Not sure if this is already known, but you after you cancel a string into wasp grenade, just press forward and block and the run cancel will come out. The forward input from wasp grenade gets saved so all you have to do is press F+ Block into your next string. B1 ~WC just got easier.

Hmm, just got back home and tried this but its not working. It sometimes works when I do df1 f+block raw, but even then sometimes I get a dash and others I get a run or nothing. What's the secret?

 

[chemist4hire]

Messing around in training mode I found if you input d,f 1~block (stagger/plink it so you don't get ex) and hold 1+block, then tap forward twice without letting go of block or 1, you get instant run. It is strange though because if you try doing it with f1,1 or f2,2 it doesn't work. I may have to mess with it a bit more.

 

[Take$$$]

Messing around in training mode I found if you input d,f 1~block (stagger/plink it so you don't get ex) and hold 1+block, then tap forward twice without letting go of block or 1, you get instant run. It is strange though because if you try doing it with f1,1 or f2,2 it doesn't work. I may have to mess with it a bit more.

Just got it to work with f22, b1, and f11. Instead of pressing block after df1 do it on the first forward