Strategy - Erron Black The Erron Black Gameplan & MU Thread *Updated*

[Crathen]

would d1 be a good option since you can hold block and press a button and it will come out on the first available frame after block stun? sounds like you can mash out of it

Nope , b1 blockstun too strong , only 7 frame moves trade w it on block if done correctly , only way out is a backdash nicely timed ( doesn't work in the corner ) or armor , that's about it for Erron

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Nope , b1 blockstun too strong , only 7 frame moves trade w it on block if done correctly

i guess the pc version is behind because i was able to do it

 

[Crathen]

i guess the pc version is behind because i was able to do it

Idk anything bout pc version , or probably you're not recording Kano doing perfectly timed b1 on block , shit is like + frames on block

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Idk anything bout pc version , or probably you're not recording Kano doing perfectly timed b1 on block , shit is like + frames on block

move is actully 0 on block. i just went into training mode and set kano to record and mashed b1, is there something i did wrong?

 

[The Farmer]

Kitanas fans are highs, so duck

In all 3 variations, Erron can contest them with bf3 sand grenade at 9% each and causing a knock down. You may end up trading (favourably by 3%) once or twice before you can get into a rhythm where you can meaty them on wake up.

Keep note, if her fans have passed half screen and you then input the bf3 command, her fans will hit you on start up interrupting the sand grenade. In these cases duck and immediately input the command after the fans leave the screen - if she tries a fan toss follow up (or anything other than blocking or jumping), she's eating 9% and now you have the zoning advantage.

I'm gonna upload a zoning video showing how to contest different projectiles by end of the week. Was planning on a sub zero match up vid also but in game match replay is being silly

In gunslinger, if you work for this trade with sand grenade knock down, you can get sos4 pressure. If it confirms another knockdown,back into sos, if she blocks, back to sand grenade or coin toss.

 

[Crathen]

move is actully 0 on block. i just went into training mode and set kano to record and mashed b1, is there something i did wrong?

If you mash the move won't always come out the first possible frame on block , i'm literally testing this now and can't get anything out other than armor or backdash , with Kung Jin i can trade his 2 vs b1

 

[Pakman]

http://www.twitch.tv/tractortron/b/654802272

If he gets you cornered with b1, pray you have meter. Also, since b1 doesnt combo into itself on ground, this counts as unbreakable damage too...

D1 works, kinda...but too unreliable.

 

[KNX]

Mashing too unreliable and not fast enough - you need 1 frame to recover from your own block stun.

And there's little pushback on Kano's b1 so you're constantly eating chip.

I'll upload a vid later today showing how dumb this is.

You aren't meant to mash d+1, you time it on the frame you leave blockstun

His b+1 is 9 frames and neutral on block, perfectly timed d+1 gets you a trade assuming the Kano has perfectly timed his b+1s.

It's his least risky option. If you get hit, continue blocking and try to find another gap in the pressure... better than getting your armored special baited and eating a full combo honestly.

 

[Pakman]

^ someone asked if you could mash d1 to get out of it, I was responding to him

Finding a small 8/9 frame gap in the pressure is quite difficult when I'm eating chip damage and he's building meter at the same time. Keep in mind I have to do this on anticipation as well and account for the extra frame of block stun I am in after releasing block...doing all that just for a chance at an unfavorable trade? It's not like Kano can't just bait the d1 either... Kano's b1 just needs a little more push back on block, that's all.

Keep all the frame and attack data the same, just add a little more pushback on block.

 

[keyes]

1st post! Took me 10 days but I have decided on maining Eronn Black. How do you all feel about the Liu Kang matchup? Maybe it's just me but that guy is rough. Any advice would be appreciated. Most commonly when I see Liu Kang it's his dragon fist variation and his normals just tend to outright stomp me. I have been using Marksman EB.

Specifically I am having trouble with punishes. It seems like his strings are safe or have enough pushback on them to make punishing very difficult. I also tend to struggle on wake-up against him more so than other characters.

 

[belovedking]

^ someone asked if you could mash d1 to get out of it, I was responding to him

Finding a small 8/9 frame gap in the pressure is quite difficult when I'm eating chip damage and he's building meter at the same time. Keep in mind I have to do this on anticipation as well and account for the extra frame of block stun I am in after releasing block...doing all that just for a chance at an unfavorable trade? It's not like Kano can't just bait the d1 either... Kano's b1 just needs a little more push back on block, that's all.

Keep all the frame and attack data the same, just add a little more pushback on block.

yo that smiley face aauulll

 

[SaJa]

Subzero and his clones are a pain in the ass against outlaw. Any idea ? Maybe change the variation ?

 

[Crathen]

Subzero and his clones are a pain in the ass against outlaw. Any idea ? Maybe change the variation ?

Yeah it's definately tough , Sub dictates the match because you can't challenge the clone anywhere on the screen and as soon the clone shatters he can put another one up, tossing sand granades will do nothing other than destroying the clone or trade w an ice ball ( bad trade ), even saving armor for EX slide to punish clones give you 16% and no oki unless you were w your back in the corner ( midscreen after EX slide , sub can just wakeup clone and you can't punish it or trigger the proximity ) , if you can get a lifelead try to turtle as much as you can midscreen and check sub trying to get in w 21122 / f1 , always punish his b2's with 2112xxsandtoss. Don't forget interactables , those will go through the close and hit sub trying to machinegun iceballs.

Marksman ain't that much better since all of his rifle specials have hella recovery and will more than often trade w iceball , at this point i wanna figure out if gunslinger does better in this particular MU.

Edit: Forgot to mention , smart use of MB sand granade can punish subs that do clone to something like iceball , simple Bnb is MB granade ( usually only the 2nd hit connects ) into run cancel f24 2112xxSand Trap

 

[Kanalratte]

i need advices against scorp players (Inferno). when he zones you out he can 50/50 you all day and it's hard to come forward. especially his minion from the ground. once grabbed you eat like a 30% combo. it's also hard to punish. it comes out so fast it's ridicilous.

 

[lionheart21]

EX Slide is a great way to get in on an opponent. I also try to toss out a Sand Grenade to get some breathing room when getting zoned.

 

[Kali-Yuga]

i need advices against scorp players (Inferno). when he zones you out he can 50/50 you all day and it's hard to come forward. especially his minion from the ground. once grabbed you eat like a 30% combo. it's also hard to punish. it comes out so fast it's ridicilous.

If you run towards him, the low grab will not track you unless it's the EX version. Also a well timed 32 can knock him down allowing you to get closer and the sand grenade will force him to either block low or jump over it.

Watching scorpions hands will also make it easier to see what he's throwing out, he does a different motion with hands depending on what minion thing he uses.

 

[Pakman]

Dealing with Johnny cage low forceball spam

Johnny has Low forceball in A list and Fisticuffs; counts as a mid, deals 8 % and only duck able at half screen.

At full screen, it arcs downwards hitting you. Even if you block, you cannot contest or challenge with any of Errons Zoning tools at this range - doing so will result in you eating 8%. What you can do however is jump over the forceball on reaction (if you feel you cannot make it in time, feel free to neutral jump)

The key here is to get to mid screen duck and bait the Shadow kick, then punish him for his mistake!

 

[Desperdicio]

How do you deal with Jacqui's gun? I just lost terribly because I didn't know how to deal with it. I couldn't get close with my Outlaw. All my opponent kept doing was throwing those projectiles. I could only make one little step per projectile if I tried to crouch and advance, and even that way, I would get hit by the EN version, and that bar of meter would charge long before I got close.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

How are you guys approaching the scorpion and Cassie matchup? Its really hard to keep pressure on them since they can just mash 7 frame d1/d3 to beat out my f13 up close and I really don't know what I should be doing on defense other than burning a bar for ex slide/ tackle. Any suggestions?

 

[Pakman]

Against Jaqui full auto, crouch and walk in to about mid screen, and hold crouch and react to what she does when you're there - you should be able to reaction block if she meter burns at the end (set it up in training mode and practice).

It's possible to sand grenade in between her bullet spam, and technically you win damage wise (9% vs 8% iirc), but frame data puts it in Jaqui's favour so you have to crouch and walk to mid screen instead. Anyways, once passed mid screen you play a reaction game:

* If she jumps forwards, she's getting anti aired/air to air. If you plan on D2ing her jump in, do be careful if she does her air stomp as this can cause your AA to whiff - delay your response slightly to see what she does (Erron's D2 is pretty fast anyway)

* If she jumps back, dash in and play the corner game

* If she bf2s, reaction block and punish.

* if she low rockets, you can just about reaction block.

If you have sufficient health and aren't too keen on being able to reaction block or just want to play it safe in general, then just go for neutral crouch block at this distance:
should she jump in, release block and D2 on reaction; if she jumps back to gain some space, she's only cornering herself; bf2 or low rockets you can block punish; if she does machine gun again you'll have to take the chip, but at this distance the pushback is a lot more manageable than say at full screen.



With Cassie, I'd say just zone her full screen with sand grenades/3,2 etc. She can't really do anything about it from that distance bar akimbo (which you can avoid by neutral ducking AND trade favourably with sand grenade), which forces her to attempt to get in making her a lot more predictable and more manageable to deal with. Up close, her strings are too fast to contend with imo; Play the MU at mid to full screen instead.


Scorpion I am trying to figure out myself, but so far it's very much Scorpion playing his game and you reacting to it. His teleports and minions let him control the neutral so zoning is out of the question and you've got to be on your guard the whole time as a result. When he's in hellfire variation, he basically gets a free breaker too High meterless combo damage and his vortex really hurts - I end up saving/using meter just for combo breaking in this MU... but building meter safely to do that is proving difficult!

 

[GroovyMango]

Kano b1 doesn't really need nerfing, it's dumb yeah but it's fine that our character has flaws. Erron Black is REALLY GOOD, good damage, 50/50s, command grab, chip set ups, some zoning, decent buttons. Just because we can't deal with something a character has doesn't mean it's overpowered. Kano kind of needs b1, that variation has good zoning but NO mixup, and b1 is his best tool. I prefer EX Command grab to deal with it, a lot of Kano's will walk back to try to whiff punish a button, so command grab will catch that. Also if they're just doing it over and over again our d2 is our best option with no meter. It sends him far away and gives him 14% for his troubles. it WILL trade just like d1, but unlike d1 the situation is in our favor. Hitting him with d1 and having it trade is bad, Kano b1 has more advantage on hit so we're right back in there. You can slide if you want but it's dangerous if they bait it by walk back block. It is good though to use multiple ways out since it keeps him guessing as well.

Edit: I make this long post about how Kano is fine, and now b1 is -2... ahahahahaha

 

[lDlDub]

As a new player, this advice is invaluable. Thank you so much. Keep up the updates por favor

 

[recret]

Thanks you so much my friend.

 

[lDlDub]

Anybody have any advice on punishing Liu Kang? The block stun on his f44, bicycle kick, and dash kick is unreal. I am easily blocking all his strings but get caught with a d3 when I go for a punish. I'm in the outlaw variation

 

[lDlDub]

Best way I've found to punish his f33 is by hitting him with a few d1's after he's done and then going into some variation of f13xx when he starts to block low