Question - Sub-Zero Got the game early, q&a about Subzero moveset etc(no story spoilers)

[Slymind]

If they do not know what frame data is that can be difficult to judge. If they are + on block to the point they can safely follow up, but are being smacked out of the setup by the opponent then that obviously isn't good netcode lol. Unless they test those types of things and button response they can't possibly know.

I played a lot of SF4 back in vanilla version, many of those ours were before i knew what frame data was or any of other technical concepts people use in fighting games, yet when i played online from match to match i could easily detect if a delay was happening or if there was something wrong with the responsiviness of the game, sure, maybe some people won't give you the most accurate feedback ever, but to completely disregard their impression is foolish, back in MK9 before the game was out, i too saw people over the internet talking about the online, and back then people were complaining. The netcode will be better tested in the hands of more skilled players, but there is value on others' feedback as well.

 

[TopTierHarley]

@Repulsar What are the frame advantages (for now anyway) on MB throws?

 

[chores]

CONSOLIDATED ALL QWARK'S POSTS FROM THIS THREAD --- for ease of access

he said a blocked d2 (uppercut) is universally full combo unsafe

Spoiler: SUBZERO

EX Iceball is comboable from most of his strings and is -7 while pushing the opponent back at sweep distance, extremely deceiving animation which by looking at it I'd actually estimate -10.

Slide is 8f startup, -21 on block. OTGs just like in MK9 and can be used to corpse hop after certain strings.

Sub has a solid backdash in all variations

EX hammer is 23f, normal is 32. EX version is designed to counteract the scaling of the ex iceball and it's your go to move after F42 or a low starter.

Spoiler: KITANA

Kitana looks unsafe and slow, can't cancel into any decent shit.

Uplift when EX looks super good, looks as if it juggles no matter the gravity.

Far leaching normal is F2, super - in all forms of string.

IA Fans can be done in any direction.

Assassin strike gives her what looks like the easiest safejump I've ever seen in a game.
KITANA parry is 17f and if cancellable from her insanely - strings very mindgame heavy

Spoiler: TAKEDA

takeda has

spear
rainbow ball kick
scorpion teleport that can be delayed
air kunai

Takeda has zoning kunais just like skarlet but much more + with some being - and the EX version very +

Also a blanka rainbow ball the distance of which you control and is -20+

S1 6
D1 7 -3
D2 8
D3 6 -3
D4 9 -4

Spoiler: DVORAH

D3 is 1f faster ( 7 ) from any char I've seen so far, she has a 6f jab which some chars don't have, MK9 scorpion's F3 with less damage

-8 14f startup F2 overhead with godlike range, bad on whiff. End of string is -7 with not enough distance to avoid spanking.

D'vorah air throw is 7f

Wasp grenade is SF4 cody rock throw with better projectory

Swarm queen is slow and setup heavy

Her ground blast hits low and looks very reactable with armour/xray but not jumpable.

her tentacles are strictly for finishing combos or possibly safe via a setup

Dvorah J2 is joker's J2

NJ punch is good AA if already airborne

NJ kick is the move in MMH's string where he becomes like a carpet and scoops you up underneath

throws leave her almost 3/4 screen away

Spoiler: JOHNNY CAGE

Cage has a slow standing 1, 8F +1 on block ( v unusual ) D3

90% strings are -, some o. EX forceball ( high version ) is actually mid and +11

Spoiler: KUNG LAO

Kung Lao

Throw throws you fullscreen

Most normals are - but very safe compared to other cast members

Spin is death on whiff

14f D3 that is active for only 1f, does 2% damage on hit, is +6 on block, +21 on hit

SPIN = 6F
34 ACT
38 RECO
-25 BLK
+70 HIT
0 CANCEL
mid - 5%, 1.62% on block

Divekick = 5f
16 act
-37 blk

can combo out of with at least ex spin

backdash is sub-par at best

Spoiler: ERRON BLACK

ERRON GIT YER PISTOL DRAWN

jokers backdash, longer reach, more slow mo

decent f dash

throw sends fullscreen, throw animations are the exact same other than a grab by the shoulders and side switch

alot of stuff is safe

7f jab, 10f -5 d3 super short

all his low pokes are super short

coin toss hits sweep distance

has a fullscreen low profile slide, no combo

spikes placed only in front, ex more duration

f1 overhead gun handle overhead punch

Spoiler: FERRA/TORR

f dash slightly worse than banes, extremely good

piss poor backdash, its almost exactly like SF4 oni backdash

standing 4 even is cammy's st mk " look at my ass"

F2 is a low scoop that changes sides

long range d1, bows down for the chick to stab you

ferra is a rechargable projectile that hits low and reaches fullscreen, you must wait until she runs back to you again

she can be throw low like a slide, overhead like garuda spikeball/blanka rainbow ball

ferra torr has 8f s1 which is slow

6f d3 fastest ive seen among all chars so fun, -1 on block + 14 on hit and +13 cancel adv, his pokes look very good compared to most

f3 is -2 overhead 14f startup, deceivingly safe on whiff

has a faster bane charge with a shorter warning where he takes tora off his shoulder to tackle you, ex has toraa/ferra/gollum whatever stabbing you

ferra torr strings are much safer than most of cast, tons of overheads, 1 low

Spoiler: KANO

CO-KANO

choke, even ex ,is blockable
block animation possibly the best thing i have ever seen, he legit looks like his fist'd go right through your neck if you didnt block

rib strike throw is always unblockable, ex does more dmg

dash/backdash an exact copy of flash but even better

upball extremely bad on whiff

D3 - 7START -2 BLK
D1 - 8 START -8 BLK 25 HIT
D4 - 7 START -6F BLK +18 HIT

very surprisingly, while other chars have at the most 1 string at 0 on block, he has like 5 and only 1 out of his approx 8-9 strings is punishable at -15, 2 of them are -7

Cybernetic Kano

1) Address start up and recovery on the knife toss.
11+/-72 EX 8/88
2) Address start up and recovery on lasers.
eye burst = 12 / 26 EX less hit adv, more cancel adv
upward laser = 15/28 enhance RT = 2/42
3) Address movement (forward dash and back dash).
copy of flash, slightly faster on recovery except for beckdesh as xian calls it
4) Search a string that ends in a grenade and share the recovery.
42 recovery frames on b13 2+4

Spoiler: KOTAL KAHN

F2 is an EWGF, -9, 17 startup, crazy reach but cant cancel

slow ass 9f standing jab

D1 fastest in the game at 5f so far, -4 and one more active i think than most ive seen
D2 I think most damaing uppercust, VERY fast at 6f, 14% dmg and -16 on lock, -40 on whiff
D3 6F, -5
D4 19 -1 +33

blood offering increases his damage at 10% life toll, throw did 18% and lasted unsually long, i think this is to balance out his buff timing, throws fuscreen

average f dash, kinda long

fast medium distance backdash, tons of recovery

god ray is a distance controllable a la mmh orbs beam of light a la nightwoof, medium startup and recovery

0.50 life every half second, ex does double that.

air throw is 7f, ex gives a combo

his saw blade move has 25f startup, 37 recover frame but reaches jump distance and is -4 on block, ex increases le damage

Spoiler: JAX

Mediocre dashes

fast travelling purple mountain dew, can charge it up for mindgames

ground pound doesnt look cancellable, same overall startup, maybe 3f faster

dash punch is very whiff punishable

gotcha grab " you think you bad? you aint bad"

jax has a hopkick-like upknee, mid, ex does a dash punch after

b2 is a straight up "time to make you shorter" overhead with the base of the closed palm, does 5% damage raw, can be charged up to become a launcher

5f s1

6F D1 -4

6F D2

8F +1 D3

8F -3 D4

jax's MK9 F4 is now a sweep B4

jax b2 overhead stages:
Normal = grundy b1 stagger
Medium = Splat
Full = launch

Spoiler: REPTILE

forward dash short, sneaky, medium duration

backdash very short distance, looks bad and he gives you a "youre disgusting" look

Acid spit, standard

ex is a debuff puddle

slide worse than sub

ex slide I think armoured, fast as fuck low profile

AMAZING walkspeed

normal overhead flip, standard

ex launches

ex slide is 5f startup

claw pounce can be directed

claw slash is a mid combo ender ( ? ) ex version juggles

after testing it out some more, its not exactly his walkspeed

this is i think amazing what theyve done

its not that hes fast, hes faster than average but his transition from backwards to forward walk and vice versa is VERY fast, the walkspeed itself is slightly above average

Spoiler: RAIDEN

whuuthfukruhfkaaaaa is the same
ex whuthuhutukakfkaaaaaa looks armoured and wallcarries the opponent a third of the stage once caught

throw throws fscreen

slightly slower than average walkspeed

meh f dash
bad backdash

mediocre fireball, not a "just give him a generic fireball" bad but mediocre compared to a zoning chars

vicinity blast will not be whiffed for meter build, super punishable on whiff

electrocute sends fullscreen on hit, on whiff is a little better than a command grab per se

has doomsday's upwards venom, ex version is the exact same but overhead and uncrouchable to make it whiff

traps can be set - front, behind, away, above, above and in front, above and behind

the moment you set a second trap they connect via lightning, set a third one and after the first one is gone the other 2, assuming reasonable distance, will now connect

S1 - 7F
D1 - 6F -8
D2 - 10F
D3 - 7F -8
D4 - 12F +2

Spoiler: SONYA

S1 6F
D1 7F -3
D2 8F
D3 6F -3
d4 9f -4

MS Startup 0 recovery 10

Grab 8f -30
At ease 0 -3
Rising kick 7f -21
Double kick 21 -17

Garrote parry 5f, ex 3f

Airstrike 10f +5 block

Spoiler: Jacqui

S1 6
D1 7 -6
D2 11
D3 7 +4
D4 10 -3
she seems to have 2 command normals which can both lead to either a downward hammer or toe stomp

Spoiler: liu kang

S1 - 7
D1 - 8 -3
D2 - 6
D3 - 11 +4
D4 - 11 -2

Spoiler: quan chi

0 startup, 40 recovery for bat.

S1 - 8
D1 - 8 -9
D2 - 8
D3 - 8 0
D4 - 14 -3

Spoiler: kenshi

S1 10
D1 8 -3
D2 7
D3 10 -1
D4 12 -1

SCharge -14
EX -6
OH Slash -9 same EX

 

[TopTierHarley]

CONSOLIDATED ALL QWARK'S POSTS FROM THIS THREAD --- for ease of access

he said a blocked d2 (uppercut) is universally full combo unsafe

Spoiler: SUBZERO

EX Iceball is comboable from most of his strings and is -7 while pushing the opponent back at sweep distance, extremely deceiving animation which by looking at it I'd actually estimate -10.

Slide is 8f startup, -21 on block. OTGs just like in MK9 and can be used to corpse hop after certain strings.

Sub has a solid backdash in all variations

EX hammer is 23f, normal is 32. EX version is designed to counteract the scaling of the ex iceball and it's your go to move after F42 or a low starter.

Spoiler: KITANA

Kitana looks unsafe and slow, can't cancel into any decent shit.

Uplift when EX looks super good, looks as if it juggles no matter the gravity.

Far leaching normal is F2, super - in all forms of string.

IA Fans can be done in any direction.

Assassin strike gives her what looks like the easiest safejump I've ever seen in a game.
KITANA parry is 17f and if cancellable from her insanely - strings very mindgame heavy

Spoiler: TAKEDA

takeda has

spear
rainbow ball kick
scorpion teleport that can be delayed
air kunai

Takeda has zoning kunais just like skarlet but much more + with some being - and the EX version very +

Also a blanka rainbow ball the distance of which you control and is -20+

S1 6
D1 7 -3
D2 8
D3 6 -3
D4 9 -4

Spoiler: DVORAH

D3 is 1f faster ( 7 ) from any char I've seen so far, she has a 6f jab which some chars don't have, MK9 scorpion's F3 with less damage

-8 14f startup F2 overhead with godlike range, bad on whiff. End of string is -7 with not enough distance to avoid spanking.

D'vorah air throw is 7f

Wasp grenade is SF4 cody rock throw with better projectory

Swarm queen is slow and setup heavy

Her ground blast hits low and looks very reactable with armour/xray but not jumpable.

her tentacles are strictly for finishing combos or possibly safe via a setup

Dvorah J2 is joker's J2

NJ punch is good AA if already airborne

NJ kick is the move in MMH's string where he becomes like a carpet and scoops you up underneath

throws leave her almost 3/4 screen away

Spoiler: JOHNNY CAGE

Cage has a slow standing 1, 8F +1 on block ( v unusual ) D3

90% strings are -, some o. EX forceball ( high version ) is actually mid and +11

Spoiler: KUNG LAO

Kung Lao

Throw throws you fullscreen

Most normals are - but very safe compared to other cast members

Spin is death on whiff

14f D3 that is active for only 1f, does 2% damage on hit, is +6 on block, +21 on hit

SPIN = 6F
34 ACT
38 RECO
-25 BLK
+70 HIT
0 CANCEL
mid - 5%, 1.62% on block

Divekick = 5f
16 act
-37 blk

can combo out of with at least ex spin

backdash is sub-par at best

Spoiler: ERRON BLACK

ERRON GIT YER PISTOL DRAWN

jokers backdash, longer reach, more slow mo

decent f dash

throw sends fullscreen, throw animations are the exact same other than a grab by the shoulders and side switch

alot of stuff is safe

7f jab, 10f -5 d3 super short

all his low pokes are super short

coin toss hits sweep distance

has a fullscreen low profile slide, no combo

spikes placed only in front, ex more duration

f1 overhead gun handle overhead punch

Spoiler: FERRA/TORR

f dash slightly worse than banes, extremely good

piss poor backdash, its almost exactly like SF4 oni backdash

standing 4 even is cammy's st mk " look at my ass"

F2 is a low scoop that changes sides

long range d1, bows down for the chick to stab you

ferra is a rechargable projectile that hits low and reaches fullscreen, you must wait until she runs back to you again

she can be throw low like a slide, overhead like garuda spikeball/blanka rainbow ball

ferra torr has 8f s1 which is slow

6f d3 fastest ive seen among all chars so fun, -1 on block + 14 on hit and +13 cancel adv, his pokes look very good compared to most

f3 is -2 overhead 14f startup, deceivingly safe on whiff

has a faster bane charge with a shorter warning where he takes tora off his shoulder to tackle you, ex has toraa/ferra/gollum whatever stabbing you

ferra torr strings are much safer than most of cast, tons of overheads, 1 low

Spoiler: KANO

CO-KANO

choke, even ex ,is blockable
block animation possibly the best thing i have ever seen, he legit looks like his fist'd go right through your neck if you didnt block

rib strike throw is always unblockable, ex does more dmg

dash/backdash an exact copy of flash but even better

upball extremely bad on whiff

D3 - 7START -2 BLK
D1 - 8 START -8 BLK 25 HIT
D4 - 7 START -6F BLK +18 HIT

very surprisingly, while other chars have at the most 1 string at 0 on block, he has like 5 and only 1 out of his approx 8-9 strings is punishable at -15, 2 of them are -7

Cybernetic Kano

1) Address start up and recovery on the knife toss.
11+/-72 EX 8/88
2) Address start up and recovery on lasers.
eye burst = 12 / 26 EX less hit adv, more cancel adv
upward laser = 15/28 enhance RT = 2/42
3) Address movement (forward dash and back dash).
copy of flash, slightly faster on recovery except for beckdesh as xian calls it
4) Search a string that ends in a grenade and share the recovery.
42 recovery frames on b13 2+4

Spoiler: KOTAL KAHN

F2 is an EWGF, -9, 17 startup, crazy reach but cant cancel

slow ass 9f standing jab

D1 fastest in the game at 5f so far, -4 and one more active i think than most ive seen
D2 I think most damaing uppercust, VERY fast at 6f, 14% dmg and -16 on lock, -40 on whiff
D3 6F, -5
D4 19 -1 +33

blood offering increases his damage at 10% life toll, throw did 18% and lasted unsually long, i think this is to balance out his buff timing, throws fuscreen

average f dash, kinda long

fast medium distance backdash, tons of recovery

god ray is a distance controllable a la mmh orbs beam of light a la nightwoof, medium startup and recovery

0.50 life every half second, ex does double that.

air throw is 7f, ex gives a combo

his saw blade move has 25f startup, 37 recover frame but reaches jump distance and is -4 on block, ex increases le damage

Spoiler: JAX

Mediocre dashes

fast travelling purple mountain dew, can charge it up for mindgames

ground pound doesnt look cancellable, same overall startup, maybe 3f faster

dash punch is very whiff punishable

gotcha grab " you think you bad? you aint bad"

jax has a hopkick-like upknee, mid, ex does a dash punch after

b2 is a straight up "time to make you shorter" overhead with the base of the closed palm, does 5% damage raw, can be charged up to become a launcher

5f s1

6F D1 -4

6F D2

8F +1 D3

8F -3 D4

jax's MK9 F4 is now a sweep B4

jax b2 overhead stages:
Normal = grundy b1 stagger
Medium = Splat
Full = launch

Spoiler: REPTILE

forward dash short, sneaky, medium duration

backdash very short distance, looks bad and he gives you a "youre disgusting" look

Acid spit, standard

ex is a debuff puddle

slide worse than sub

ex slide I think armoured, fast as fuck low profile

AMAZING walkspeed

normal overhead flip, standard

ex launches

ex slide is 5f startup

claw pounce can be directed

claw slash is a mid combo ender ( ? ) ex version juggles

after testing it out some more, its not exactly his walkspeed

this is i think amazing what theyve done

its not that hes fast, hes faster than average but his transition from backwards to forward walk and vice versa is VERY fast, the walkspeed itself is slightly above average

Spoiler: RAIDEN

whuuthfukruhfkaaaaa is the same
ex whuthuhutukakfkaaaaaa looks armoured and wallcarries the opponent a third of the stage once caught

throw throws fscreen

slightly slower than average walkspeed

meh f dash
bad backdash

mediocre fireball, not a "just give him a generic fireball" bad but mediocre compared to a zoning chars

vicinity blast will not be whiffed for meter build, super punishable on whiff

electrocute sends fullscreen on hit, on whiff is a little better than a command grab per se

has doomsday's upwards venom, ex version is the exact same but overhead and uncrouchable to make it whiff

traps can be set - front, behind, away, above, above and in front, above and behind

the moment you set a second trap they connect via lightning, set a third one and after the first one is gone the other 2, assuming reasonable distance, will now connect

S1 - 7F
D1 - 6F -8
D2 - 10F
D3 - 7F -8
D4 - 12F +2

Spoiler: SONYA

S1 6F
D1 7F -3
D2 8F
D3 6F -3
d4 9f -4

MS Startup 0 recovery 10

Grab 8f -30
At ease 0 -3
Rising kick 7f -21
Double kick 21 -17

Garrote parry 5f, ex 3f

Airstrike 10f +5 block

Spoiler: Jacqui

S1 6
D1 7 -6
D2 11
D3 7 +4
D4 10 -3
she seems to have 2 command normals which can both lead to either a downward hammer or toe stomp

Spoiler: liu kang

S1 - 7
D1 - 8 -3
D2 - 6
D3 - 11 +4
D4 - 11 -2

Spoiler: quan chi

0 startup, 40 recovery for bat.

S1 - 8
D1 - 8 -9
D2 - 8
D3 - 8 0
D4 - 14 -3

Spoiler: kenshi

S1 10
D1 8 -3
D2 7
D3 10 -1
D4 12 -1

SCharge -14
EX -6
OH Slash -9 same EX

Thank you

 

[Repulsar]

@Repulsar takeda impressions??

As far as I can tell he is very strong. He can control space really well with his roll kick attack. You can do some serious mind games because you can choose where to land. Also can be done in mid air and you have the same options in the air version as well.

 

[Repulsar]

CONSOLIDATED ALL QWARK'S POSTS FROM THIS THREAD --- for ease of access

he said a blocked d2 (uppercut) is universally full combo unsafe

Spoiler: SUBZERO

EX Iceball is comboable from most of his strings and is -7 while pushing the opponent back at sweep distance, extremely deceiving animation which by looking at it I'd actually estimate -10.

Slide is 8f startup, -21 on block. OTGs just like in MK9 and can be used to corpse hop after certain strings.

Sub has a solid backdash in all variations

EX hammer is 23f, normal is 32. EX version is designed to counteract the scaling of the ex iceball and it's your go to move after F42 or a low starter.

Spoiler: KITANA

Kitana looks unsafe and slow, can't cancel into any decent shit.

Uplift when EX looks super good, looks as if it juggles no matter the gravity.

Far leaching normal is F2, super - in all forms of string.

IA Fans can be done in any direction.

Assassin strike gives her what looks like the easiest safejump I've ever seen in a game.
KITANA parry is 17f and if cancellable from her insanely - strings very mindgame heavy

Spoiler: TAKEDA

takeda has

spear
rainbow ball kick
scorpion teleport that can be delayed
air kunai

Takeda has zoning kunais just like skarlet but much more + with some being - and the EX version very +

Also a blanka rainbow ball the distance of which you control and is -20+

S1 6
D1 7 -3
D2 8
D3 6 -3
D4 9 -4

Spoiler: DVORAH

D3 is 1f faster ( 7 ) from any char I've seen so far, she has a 6f jab which some chars don't have, MK9 scorpion's F3 with less damage

-8 14f startup F2 overhead with godlike range, bad on whiff. End of string is -7 with not enough distance to avoid spanking.

D'vorah air throw is 7f

Wasp grenade is SF4 cody rock throw with better projectory

Swarm queen is slow and setup heavy

Her ground blast hits low and looks very reactable with armour/xray but not jumpable.

her tentacles are strictly for finishing combos or possibly safe via a setup

Dvorah J2 is joker's J2

NJ punch is good AA if already airborne

NJ kick is the move in MMH's string where he becomes like a carpet and scoops you up underneath

throws leave her almost 3/4 screen away

Spoiler: JOHNNY CAGE

Cage has a slow standing 1, 8F +1 on block ( v unusual ) D3

90% strings are -, some o. EX forceball ( high version ) is actually mid and +11

Spoiler: KUNG LAO

Kung Lao

Throw throws you fullscreen

Most normals are - but very safe compared to other cast members

Spin is death on whiff

14f D3 that is active for only 1f, does 2% damage on hit, is +6 on block, +21 on hit

SPIN = 6F
34 ACT
38 RECO
-25 BLK
+70 HIT
0 CANCEL
mid - 5%, 1.62% on block

Divekick = 5f
16 act
-37 blk

can combo out of with at least ex spin

backdash is sub-par at best

Spoiler: ERRON BLACK

ERRON GIT YER PISTOL DRAWN

jokers backdash, longer reach, more slow mo

decent f dash

throw sends fullscreen, throw animations are the exact same other than a grab by the shoulders and side switch

alot of stuff is safe

7f jab, 10f -5 d3 super short

all his low pokes are super short

coin toss hits sweep distance

has a fullscreen low profile slide, no combo

spikes placed only in front, ex more duration

f1 overhead gun handle overhead punch

Spoiler: FERRA/TORR

f dash slightly worse than banes, extremely good

piss poor backdash, its almost exactly like SF4 oni backdash

standing 4 even is cammy's st mk " look at my ass"

F2 is a low scoop that changes sides

long range d1, bows down for the chick to stab you

ferra is a rechargable projectile that hits low and reaches fullscreen, you must wait until she runs back to you again

she can be throw low like a slide, overhead like garuda spikeball/blanka rainbow ball

ferra torr has 8f s1 which is slow

6f d3 fastest ive seen among all chars so fun, -1 on block + 14 on hit and +13 cancel adv, his pokes look very good compared to most

f3 is -2 overhead 14f startup, deceivingly safe on whiff

has a faster bane charge with a shorter warning where he takes tora off his shoulder to tackle you, ex has toraa/ferra/gollum whatever stabbing you

ferra torr strings are much safer than most of cast, tons of overheads, 1 low

Spoiler: KANO

CO-KANO

choke, even ex ,is blockable
block animation possibly the best thing i have ever seen, he legit looks like his fist'd go right through your neck if you didnt block

rib strike throw is always unblockable, ex does more dmg

dash/backdash an exact copy of flash but even better

upball extremely bad on whiff

D3 - 7START -2 BLK
D1 - 8 START -8 BLK 25 HIT
D4 - 7 START -6F BLK +18 HIT

very surprisingly, while other chars have at the most 1 string at 0 on block, he has like 5 and only 1 out of his approx 8-9 strings is punishable at -15, 2 of them are -7

Cybernetic Kano

1) Address start up and recovery on the knife toss.
11+/-72 EX 8/88
2) Address start up and recovery on lasers.
eye burst = 12 / 26 EX less hit adv, more cancel adv
upward laser = 15/28 enhance RT = 2/42
3) Address movement (forward dash and back dash).
copy of flash, slightly faster on recovery except for beckdesh as xian calls it
4) Search a string that ends in a grenade and share the recovery.
42 recovery frames on b13 2+4

Spoiler: KOTAL KAHN

F2 is an EWGF, -9, 17 startup, crazy reach but cant cancel

slow ass 9f standing jab

D1 fastest in the game at 5f so far, -4 and one more active i think than most ive seen
D2 I think most damaing uppercust, VERY fast at 6f, 14% dmg and -16 on lock, -40 on whiff
D3 6F, -5
D4 19 -1 +33

blood offering increases his damage at 10% life toll, throw did 18% and lasted unsually long, i think this is to balance out his buff timing, throws fuscreen

average f dash, kinda long

fast medium distance backdash, tons of recovery

god ray is a distance controllable a la mmh orbs beam of light a la nightwoof, medium startup and recovery

0.50 life every half second, ex does double that.

air throw is 7f, ex gives a combo

his saw blade move has 25f startup, 37 recover frame but reaches jump distance and is -4 on block, ex increases le damage

Spoiler: JAX

Mediocre dashes

fast travelling purple mountain dew, can charge it up for mindgames

ground pound doesnt look cancellable, same overall startup, maybe 3f faster

dash punch is very whiff punishable

gotcha grab " you think you bad? you aint bad"

jax has a hopkick-like upknee, mid, ex does a dash punch after

b2 is a straight up "time to make you shorter" overhead with the base of the closed palm, does 5% damage raw, can be charged up to become a launcher

5f s1

6F D1 -4

6F D2

8F +1 D3

8F -3 D4

jax's MK9 F4 is now a sweep B4

jax b2 overhead stages:
Normal = grundy b1 stagger
Medium = Splat
Full = launch

Spoiler: REPTILE

forward dash short, sneaky, medium duration

backdash very short distance, looks bad and he gives you a "youre disgusting" look

Acid spit, standard

ex is a debuff puddle

slide worse than sub

ex slide I think armoured, fast as fuck low profile

AMAZING walkspeed

normal overhead flip, standard

ex launches

ex slide is 5f startup

claw pounce can be directed

claw slash is a mid combo ender ( ? ) ex version juggles

after testing it out some more, its not exactly his walkspeed

this is i think amazing what theyve done

its not that hes fast, hes faster than average but his transition from backwards to forward walk and vice versa is VERY fast, the walkspeed itself is slightly above average

Spoiler: RAIDEN

whuuthfukruhfkaaaaa is the same
ex whuthuhutukakfkaaaaaa looks armoured and wallcarries the opponent a third of the stage once caught

throw throws fscreen

slightly slower than average walkspeed

meh f dash
bad backdash

mediocre fireball, not a "just give him a generic fireball" bad but mediocre compared to a zoning chars

vicinity blast will not be whiffed for meter build, super punishable on whiff

electrocute sends fullscreen on hit, on whiff is a little better than a command grab per se

has doomsday's upwards venom, ex version is the exact same but overhead and uncrouchable to make it whiff

traps can be set - front, behind, away, above, above and in front, above and behind

the moment you set a second trap they connect via lightning, set a third one and after the first one is gone the other 2, assuming reasonable distance, will now connect

S1 - 7F
D1 - 6F -8
D2 - 10F
D3 - 7F -8
D4 - 12F +2

Spoiler: SONYA

S1 6F
D1 7F -3
D2 8F
D3 6F -3
d4 9f -4

MS Startup 0 recovery 10

Grab 8f -30
At ease 0 -3
Rising kick 7f -21
Double kick 21 -17

Garrote parry 5f, ex 3f

Airstrike 10f +5 block

Spoiler: Jacqui

S1 6
D1 7 -6
D2 11
D3 7 +4
D4 10 -3
she seems to have 2 command normals which can both lead to either a downward hammer or toe stomp

Spoiler: liu kang

S1 - 7
D1 - 8 -3
D2 - 6
D3 - 11 +4
D4 - 11 -2

Spoiler: quan chi

0 startup, 40 recovery for bat.

S1 - 8
D1 - 8 -9
D2 - 8
D3 - 8 0
D4 - 14 -3

Spoiler: kenshi

S1 10
D1 8 -3
D2 7
D3 10 -1
D4 12 -1

SCharge -14
EX -6
OH Slash -9 same EX

Thanks for that Chores!

 

[NKZero]

@chores

God bless you <3

 

[Repulsar]

You can ignore this if it's already been asked- Sorry, it's difficult for me to parse through all the questions already asked.

But what would you say Sub Zero's Cyromancer variation is all about? I know he's supposed to have extended combos, but what does he have in the neutral game with Cyromancer?

What does that "Ice Hammer Drop in the Air" mainly serve a purpose for?

The Cryo variation is clearly a rushdown version of Sub. I think it has the most damage potential out of the three cause of some of his strings...especialy his f4,2,1+3. Maybe in the future this will change when more people get their hands on the game.

The air ice hammer move can be used to play some mind games while you jump over the opponent. You can perform the move at any height. Its not a fast move so i guess on reaction is blockable.

 

[THTB]

Didn't get a reply earlier, but @Qwark28 @Repulsar how are Reptile's normals looking? Especially his string where he does double palm strike. Also, is elbow dash still 6 frames?

 

[shoshinsha]

@Repulsar Would you talk a bit more about Raiden? Everything we've heard so far makes him sound fairly poor. Does he seem to have any good pokes and strings? Any obviously effective tools?

 

[Repulsar]

Didn't get a reply earlier, but @Qwark28 @Repulsar how are Reptile's normals looking? Especially his string where he does double palm strike. Also, is elbow dash still 6 frames?

im gonna give you numbers. First one is startup, next is on block and last is on hit

Ok so Reptiles normals are:

s1 = 9, 0, 11
b1 = 10,-3,18
d1 = 8,-3,16
s2 = 11, -1, 20
b2 = 10, 0, 61
f2 = 12, -10, -8
d2 = 9, -16, 26
s3 = 11, 0, 16
b3 = 14, 0, 13
f3 = 16, -4, 7
d3 = 8, -1, 14
s4 = 17, 0, 15
b4 = 13, -12, 20
f4 = 8, -4, -2
d4 = 11,1, 25

His dash is: 7, -17, 35

 

[Phosferrax]

@Repulsar @Qwark28

What does the Raiden Thunder God effect have to the frame data of the strings? Does it make them more safe or advantage on block? Does it do more chip damage? Do combos that utilize the extra electricity change gravity properties or do more damage?

For Dualist Liu Kang, what is the frame data for his light form projectiles on start-up and block? What does the meter burn version of light form projectiles do?

Thanks a lot for all your help btw. Top job.

 

[ShArp]

@Repulsar what do you think of Mileena? What variation you liked the most and which one you thought was the best for rushdowns?

And one more last question (i know im asking this again): her roll is 100% not low and did you tested it? Because in all the streams everyone were blocking her roll by ducking for low block. And in one fight Tyler got hit by a roll when he was blocking high.

 

[Phosferrax]

@Repulsar what do you think of Mileena? What variation you liked the most and which one you thought was the best for rushdowns?

And one more last question (i know im asking this again): her roll is 100% not low and did you tested it? Because in all the streams everyone were blocking her roll by ducking for low block. And in one fight Tyler got hit by a roll when he was blocking high.

Her roll has been confirmed a mid hit by Qwark. Let it go man.

 

[ShArp]

Her roll has been confirmed a mid hit by Qwark. Let it go man.

Okay

 

[Treadmill]

im gonna give you numbers. First one is startup, next is on block and last is on hit

Ok so Reptiles normals are:

s1 = 9, 0, 11
b1 = 10,-3,18
d1 = 8,-3,16
s2 = 11, -1, 20
b2 = 10, 0, 61
f2 = 12, -10, -8
d2 = 9, -16, 26
s3 = 11, 0, 16
b3 = 14, 0, 13
f3 = 16, -4, 7
d3 = 8, -1, 14
s4 = 17, 0, 15
b4 = 13, -12, 20
f4 = 8, -4, -2
d4 = 11,1, 25

His dash is: 7, -17, 35

What does ex elbow dash do on hit? Does it launch for a full combo or more like mk9 elbow?

 

[Repulsar]

@Repulsar Would you talk a bit more about Raiden? Everything we've heard so far makes him sound fairly poor. Does he seem to have any good pokes and strings? Any obviously effective tools?

Playing Raiden right now, let me check.

His f1 has 5 frames startup, d1 is 6 frames startup and good range as well as his d3.

 

[Repulsar]

What does ex elbow dash do on hit? Does it launch for a full combo or more like mk9 elbow?

ex elbow adds a second uppercut and it launches

 

[Ugodimak]

Definitely book marking this thread for release date

 

[Treadmill]

ex elbow adds a second uppercut and it launches

thanks for responding man...not just to me but throughout the whole thread. Very awesome.

 

[Repulsar]

More on Raiden. His dashes are not good, both of them are kinda slow. His b2 is a 2 hit overhead with 12 frames startup and very unsafe on block.

 

[Repulsar]

thanks for responding man...not just to me but throughout the whole thread. Very awesome.

Happy to relay the info man

 

[shoshinsha]

Playing Raiden right now, let me check.

His f1 has 5 frames startup, d1 is 6 frames startup and good range as well as his d3.

Thanks for that.

If you don't mind, a few specific questions:

1. Does he seem to have any really good strings like the ones you talked about for Sub-Zero? Specifically, any long range pokes, high-low mixups, or strings with advantage?

2. How do teleports in displacer feel? Do you notice anything of interest?

3. Do the traps in Lord of Storms seem viable? What are their properties like?

4. In Thunder God variation, what is really different about him? Special strings like Cryomancer for SZ? Any that are particularly good?

I know that's a lot of stuff. Thanks for anything you can answer!

 

[ShArp]

Thanks for your time @Repulsar . Let us know what do you think of Mileena when you'll test her.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

@Repulsar @Qwark28 thanks so much for doing this guys!

Can hit/hurtboxes be made visible in training mode?

Also, what are the start up frames on kenshi's low starting string and his spinning overhead special in kenjutsu please?