Patch Changes

[Playpal]

Kung Lao, he has a full string that is special cancellable string. 2,4, Low Hat. Kabal's ->3,2 Nomad. They're just picking on Johnny because some of the other characters are lacking. I love Reptile and they're and they're buffing him! Why that is the stupidest thing they could do they could do next thing you'll now he'll have a hat!

Kung Lao's 24 is not a full string it can be followed up with 1+2 or 1+3. Kabal's F32 knocks the opponent into the air making F32 nomad dash possible.

 

[Cat]

Are you sure F+3 3 doesn't work? Didn't you confuse it for F+3 2?

Yeah I did. Lol my bad. F3,3 nut punch still works. Does 20% I believe

 

[Demonfang10]

O well now i believe that he should've been nerfed. But that was the reason Johnny was S-rank.

 

[Error]

I don't remember the Ermac forum blowing up this badly when 2, 2xxtelelift was removed, but never mind that, let's all just name random strings from other characters that we think shouldn't combo.

 

[Demonfang10]

I don't remember the Ermac forum blowing up this badly when 2, 2xxtelelift was removed, but never mind that, let's all just name random strings from other characters that we think shouldn't combo.

Ermac went from S rank to B rank cause of that? Do you think Johnny will still be a S rank character?

 

[Dizzy]

It's just that people who play other chars keep coming in the thread and asking the same stuff that was answered on page one.

 

[Error]

Ermac went from S rank to B rank cause of that? Do you think Johnny will still be a S rank character?

It removed one of his preferred combo starters, but what does that have anything to do with the fact that a lot of posters are making ignorant remarks about other strings that are working correctly? And you're overreacting on the tier placements.

 

[Demonfang10]

It removed one of his preferred combo starters, but what does that have anything to do with the fact that a lot of posters are making ignorant remarks about other strings that are working correctly? And you're overreacting on the tier placements.

How do u know i'm over reacting with out me using any interjections? And are you talking about Ermac or Cage?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

But that was the reason Johnny was S-rank.

A tier, at best, well was A tier. I suspect he dropped a tier quite honestly. He doesn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Reptile, for example. You zone Johnny out and he does not have many options - SZ vs JC for instance ultimately turns down to a turtle game. Using EX shadow kick full screen is stupid, unless it's during a projectile animation, if he's full screen and having projectiles tossed his way his only means of building meter is nut punch and ducking said projectiles with it. His projectile is ass.

Now that SZ has been given an additional 10 frames of freeze and EX armor on his slide, that matchup is now lopsided as fuck. That was already a shitty matchup and SZ received substantial buffs. NRS are incompetent, that's all I'm going to say.

Let's stop having people comment on a character they don't understand, shall we? Thanks. The reason why F3 2 being changed is so drastic is, all of his frametraps are a piece of a puzzle, once you figure out the puzzle you'll break free. He lost a piece of that puzzle. JC doesn't have any zoning worth dick, all the character can do is rush you down.

 

[Demonfang10]

A tier, at best, well was A tier. I suspect he dropped a tier quite honestly. He doesn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Reptile, for example. You zone Johnny out and he does not have many options - SZ vs JC for instance ultimately turns down to a turtle game. Using EX shadow kick full screen is stupid, unless it's during a projectile animation, if he's full screen and having projectiles tossed his way his only means of building meter is nut punch and ducking said projectiles with it. His projectile is ass.

Now that SZ has been given an additional 10 frames of freeze and EX armor on his slide, that matchup is now lopsided as fuck. That was already a shitty matchup and SZ received substantial buffs. NRS are incompetent, that's all I'm going to say.



Let's stop having people comment on a character they don't understand, shall we? Thanks.

Yeah, that what i was thinking. Hopefully you don't mean me as in people who don't know anything about Cage. His non EX flip kick is safe and that to me, was his best tool. It can only be punished by people with low starting combos. His nut punch was strong, effective, it had a low hit box so dodged some high combos, puts on a stun for great mind games and etc. Johnny doesn't have a total shit projectile, his EX is safe an can put you on a stun. He has a relatively slow sweep, but still has a powerful sweep combo. He is still going to be a good character i'm still going to use him because of his OUTRAGEOUSLY good launchers. Overall A rank and maybe since alot of characters are being nerfed maybe the line will drop of what is S-rank and what is A-rank.

 

[THTB]

Well, F3 2 being rendered essentially useless

Please explain to me how the fuck a 9f advancing safe string get rendered useless because you can't hitconfirm it into a special that sets up safejumps?

Not gonna lie, the nerf hurts a lot worse than Ermac's. f32 will still be useful, however.

Sub and Reptile's buffs are pretty significant as well, so yeah, that hurts his tournament viability some, moreso Reptile since Reptile is a lot more popular than Sub. At least he didn't get butchered like Kung Lao and Skarlet lmao.

 

[Error]

A lot of match-ups might flip or become lop-sided, we'll have to play it out and then decide on who we want to keep playing. Sub-Zero's going way up the tier list now though :/

 

[THTB]

Cage will only drop because of how significant a lot of other character's buffs are. Cage's main nerf is really that.

 

[Demonfang10]

Please explain to me how the fuck a 9f advancing safe string get rendered useless because you can't hitconfirm it into a special that sets up safejumps?

Not gonna lie, the nerf hurts a lot worse than Ermac's. f32 will still be useful, however.

Sub and Reptile's buffs are pretty significant as well, so yeah, that hurts his tournament viability some, moreso Reptile since Reptile is a lot more popular than Sub. At least he didn't get butchered like Kung Lao and Skarlet lmao.

I think you are forgetting about Baraka, he is going to be a beast character now! I'm going to pick him up post-patch. At best he is going to be A-rank, worst B-rank. And Kung Lao is getting somewhat buffed because his a bit safer overhead and nerfed low. Again why are they buffing Reptile!

 

[Dizzy]

Any time a character gets an armored move that didn't previously have one before, they just gained a huge tool to use against JC's pressure. It doesn't mean they will beat him or anything like that, just that he has to worry about them blowing that meter to get out of pressure and turn the tables.

But yeah, Reptile is a character custom made to rape JC. Without a doubt 7-3 match up. I think SZ might go to 7-3 now that he has an armored move. Pre-patch you could really bully him up close at the very least, now you have to worry about him plowing through your normal with an EX slide.



On the other topic F3, 2 is not a string you should completely abandon. It has his uses but any time it would hit you suffer essentially a 11% damage nerf from not being able to hit them with nut punch cancel and get a guaranteed cross over punch.

 

[M2Dave]

I think the Johnny Cage players in this forum have lost focus. If you look at the potential top tier characters in the current version of the game, you will come to the conclusion that Cage is in deep trouble versus many of them, regardless of nut punch's linkability after f+3,2.

You have Kabal who keeps his insane zoning with iaGBs. You have Sub Zero with armor now. You have Reptile with armor now. You have Kano with an additional armor move. You have Shang Tsung with a much faster EX soul steal. You have Noob with an overhead shadow tackle. The list goes on and on.

f+3,2~nut punch is kind of irrelevant against many of these characters because you will have a very difficult time getting close. I think Cage players should forget about f+3,2 and pressure NRS to give them an EX shadow kick that leaves the opponent much closer. This is originally Sao's idea, and I like it. Just please get over f+3,2~nut punch. NRS will most likely never bring it back. Besides, I really like Sao's suggestion on EX shadow kick. Whine about that instead, and it may actually happen. LOL.

 

[Dizzy]

Indeed. It doesn't help lots of people are brainwashed by people calling him S-tier (wtf?)

Kind of off topic, but m2dave, I tested jip some more and 16 frame moves will jail always as stated before, but if you hit it at the deepest point possible, you can make strings up to 18 frames jail. Tested it with a few characters the only 18 frame move that didn't work was Noobs that I found. I think his frame data is wrong.

Funny enough, I tested it on the PS3 version as well and it gave the same results. Guess it's always been this way with jailing hits, I think they changed how quickly your character recovers when hes not chaining into a string and just landing (therefore removing the guaranteed throw attempt) but I can't really figure out a way to test it. And it doesn't really matter as its proven that the guaranteed throw attempt is removed anyways.

 

[M2Dave]

Funny enough, I tested it on the PS3 version as well and it gave the same results. Guess it's always been this way with jailing hits, I think they changed how quickly your character recovers when hes not chaining into a string and just landing (therefore removing the guaranteed throw attempt) but I can't really figure out a way to test it. And it doesn't really matter as its proven that the guaranteed throw attempt is removed anyways.

You are correct in your analysis. REO has confirmed the same thing to me. When you link any normal attack from a jumping punch, there is no difference between the X-Box 360 and the PS3 version of the game. However, when you do not link, the advantage is significantly less.

 

[Shadowfire]

Wow what an overreaction.

Cage is my best character. I don't mind these changes at all. I got to rank 120 without even knowing about his sweep combos (which definitely sound like a glitch that shouldn't have been there anyway). I've always found f3, 2 to require you to buffer the followup way too early for it to be useful as a hit confirm like f3, 3 is, so I just used it for pressure, movement, and advantage. The nut punch damage will amount to a fraction of a percentage at the end of combos. This patch will not affect my play style, nor my efficacy, at all.

 

[Obi1Kenobi]

the only thing they touched on cage was his F3, 2 string. Nerfing his nutpunch damage was a rumor, thank god.

Both his normal and EX nut punch were nerfed by 1% and his sweep no longer has advantage on block.

 

[Doctor_V]

Cage is still one of the easiest characters to use and still top 10.

 

[Shadowfire]

A tier, at best, well was A tier. I suspect he dropped a tier quite honestly. He doesn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Reptile, for example. You zone Johnny out and he does not have many options - SZ vs JC for instance ultimately turns down to a turtle game. Using EX shadow kick full screen is stupid, unless it's during a projectile animation, if he's full screen and having projectiles tossed his way his only means of building meter is nut punch and ducking said projectiles with it. His projectile is ass.

Now that SZ has been given an additional 10 frames of freeze and EX armor on his slide, that matchup is now lopsided as fuck. That was already a shitty matchup and SZ received substantial buffs. NRS are incompetent, that's all I'm going to say.

Let's stop having people comment on a character they don't understand, shall we? Thanks. The reason why F3 2 being changed is so drastic is, all of his frametraps are a piece of a puzzle, once you figure out the puzzle you'll break free. He lost a piece of that puzzle. JC doesn't have any zoning worth dick, all the character can do is rush you down.

I disagree.

Firstly, I've always been confused about the Sub matchup, namely why people think this isn't in Cage's favour.

A turtle Sub simply should not beat Cage. His ice fortress simply will not work against Cage. I've surprised so many otherwise good subs because I've enhanced shadow kicked through their clone and projectile. At this point you're at a health advantage, and they're at the other side of the screen. You probably got first hit and your meter refunded. They can turtle, doing 0 block damage to you, while you have no reason to get hit by them. You can even build meter by nut punching under every projectile. While you're building meter, they have to be afraid of another enhanced kick ruining anything they do. They HAVE to advance or they lose.

Sometimes they'll get desperate and do a punishable slide. Sometimes they'll do an obvious jump in. Either way once you inevitably land a combo, you can end with shadow kick instead of nut punch. If you don't land a combo, it's because you kept them out with your vastly superior sweep or uppercut. The game then resets and they're at an even worse disadvantage. If they don't slide or jump in, it's because they're dash blocking and you can just f3 into whatever (or f4, or b3 if you predict a clone). This will almost certainly end up playing out in some form if you just don't jump in on him and eat an ice clone.

If they do somehow get inside, well, you're Johnny Cage and they're not.

So tell me where in that game plan does 10 more frames of freeze help Sub win? You shouldn't be trying to trade projectiles with him in the first place.

 

[THTB]

But yeah, Reptile is a character custom made to rape JC. Without a doubt 7-3 match up.

I am trying to understand this. Why? You'd think I'd agree with everyone, but one thing I'm noticing is that Cage's dash helps him get in on Reptile well. None of Reptile's projectiles have any pushback and they all have ridiculously slow startup. Idk...anyone feel like highlighting what makes this so hard for Cage in detail? Because I'm not seeing it.

 

[jbthrash]

I am trying to understand this. Why? You'd think I'd agree with everyone, but one thing I'm noticing is that Cage's dash helps him get in on Reptile well. None of Reptile's projectiles have any pushback and they all have ridiculously slow startup. Idk...anyone feel like highlighting what makes this so hard for Cage in detail? Because I'm not seeing it.

My problem with Reptile is I can't do the force ball frame trap/ jail because the second hit magically goes through him, and now he has huge advantage. I can't really get in with f3, 2 or f3, 2, d1 because he will punish me with the elbow dash.

From full screen Reptile can then zone me. JC's shadow kick is nice but I lose meter and Reptile isn't at a huge disadvantage. If i have zoning priority he can slide or dash to stop it.

My strategy for Reptile results in my trying to get up close with f3, 2 and pray something good happens. I also try to find mistakes and hopefully launch him in the air with b3 or f4.

 

[Master D.]

I am trying to understand this. Why? You'd think I'd agree with everyone, but one thing I'm noticing is that Cage's dash helps him get in on Reptile well. None of Reptile's projectiles have any pushback and they all have ridiculously slow startup. Idk...anyone feel like highlighting what makes this so hard for Cage in detail? Because I'm not seeing it.

You don't really need pushback or fast startup on projectiles to keep Cage out. For me the most annoying keep out tools are d+4's and Reptile happens to have one of the best. Also, Reptile can always punish Cage's b+3, so Cage has to use that move sparingly. Cage also struggles with EX slowball once it's out and the fact that Cage's EX forceball doesn't connect on Reptile after strings makes this match a pain in the ass.