New World Order X Podcast: Episode 1 - Consider the Crying‏ Part 1 and 2

[Eric The Scruffy]

If a match up is really unwinnable why not just call it a 10-0 instead of a 9-1?
And if matchups are based on two players with out error shouldn't characters like Black Adam, Batman, and Green Arrow lose every match up 8-2 since their stuff is all block able?

This is where matchup discussion gets really complicated, difficult, and even silly IMO. The thing is, matchup numbers will always have a layer of subjectivity to them because even though we say and act like they don't account for human error....the truth is that they kinda sorta do. To illustrate this point, consider something like infinites in SFIV:
http://www.twitch.tv/m/679608

Pretty messed up huh? One mistake and you're dead....except that's not really how it works because due to the hitscalling and the execution requirement it typically makes SFIV infinites not all that worth it unless you're a computer who cannot make a mistake...so its not a big a factor as it could be.
When people talk about matchup numbers they say they're meant to be two supercomputers fighting each other....but that's really more of a helpful analogy to describe what they really mean: two human beings fighting at the highest possible level. The reason why you hear the computer analogy more than that is because "highest level of play possible" isn't an objective concept and there's always a debate over what a human being is actually capable of. Some jedi's on this forum can apparently mb b3 killer frosts slide on reaction for example. Other upplayers think its impossible to ever mb b3 martian's teleport.

So the reason we say 9-1 rather than 10-0 is because there is wiggle room for human error....even though human error isn't generally considered to be a factor. Again...this is why matchup numbers are always going to be a subjective thing.

 

[Evantabes]

How was the Sub Kabal mu 2-8? Sub could slide under IAGB. It was pretty broken...

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Desperate for propscast

 

[Tom Brady]

Somehow everyone's P.O.V. on the podcast became "Tom's POV" and now its "Tom's arguing that its a 2-8 and not a 1-9" which was not my point nor did I make that argument.

I need to stay on Diablo till MKX lol.

 

[IrishMantis]

That's not a good thing

For you its not!

for me and my popcorn it is

and on a real note it can be a good thing

Drama causes Rivalries, Rivalries create hype

 

[PunkMafia83]

Somehow everyone's P.O.V. on the podcast became "Tom's POV" and now its "Tom's arguing that its a 2-8 and not a 1-9" which was not my point nor did I make that argument.

I need to stay on Diablo till MKX lol.

Tom who do you main in diablo I main the demon hunter level 68. Great game

 

[Tom Brady]

Tom who do you main in diablo I main the demon hunter level 68. Great game

Completely end gamed out:
1. Barb
2. Crusader
3. Wizard

Close to end gamed out:
Demon Hunter

All lvl 70, paragon 885.

 

[RM AtK!]

Completely end gamed out:
1. Barb
2. Crusader
3. Wizard

Close to end gamed out:
Demon Hunter

All lvl 70, paragon 885.

how many virgin years did that take lmao

 

[SFF | milopkl]

the only crying i heard was tom and dave as usual crying throughout the entire fucking podcast. get out of here with this trash gentlemen, i saw this and streamed it at the speed of light but regret it. tom still cryig about sub zero and the way people treated him in mk9. its nearly mkX lmao, tom you are living in the past and i lost any kind of admiration or hope for you ever changing your crybaby ways, you promised so many times to be done with this shit. as for m2dave, he was never relevant in IGAU anyway, but at least he is not an overwhelmingly self sorry victim like Brady.

as a lex main Revolver has never cried about his character and has never mislead the Lex community, he has always UP PLAYED Lex DRAMATICALLY to a point i disagree with his positively favourable perspective on the character. If people think Lex is a shitty character they have drawn that by their own conclusions and experiences, not because of some revolver propaganda.

 

[Qwark28]

no, it was a reference to marijuana, because revolver loves drugs and so does jonnitti, I always tell jonnitti that he's "so 419" right now because its one below 420 (which i said was revolvers age) , which represents marijuana. Snoop dogg is a huge advocate celebrity supporter of weed and is open and out spoken about it the right to legalize it. When you said "dog years" I related it to "snoopdogg"

You're racist for thinking that was racist

 

[M2Dave]

As @rev0lver cries about Zod on TYM, Facebook, Twitter, and Skype on a daily basis, he never mentions the brutal knock down game that Lex can force on Zod. The reality is that Lex has a very difficult time approaching Zod, but when he does, not only are the options available, they are excellent. The possibility to victory is present.

Also, I have not downplayed Zod for a very long time. Some Zod players believe that Aquaman and Sinestro beat Zod. I think these two match ups may be even at the highest level. I only complain Martian Manhunter, who beats Zod at least 7:3.

 

[Goldi]

You should call it the Retro Propscast, Vintage Views, Nostalgic Notables or At the Table.

 

[chemist4hire]

The "Pew Pew Podcast" brought to you by M2Dave from across the internet.

 

[K7L33THA]

It must be called "The Low Shotscast".

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

As @rev0lver cries about Zod on TYM, Facebook, Twitter, and Skype on a daily basis, he never mentions the brutal knock down game that Lex can force on Zod. The reality is that Lex has a very difficult time approaching Zod, but when he does, not only are the options available, they are excellent. The possibility to victory is present.

Also, I have not downplayed Zod for a very long time. Some Zod players believe that Aquaman and Sinestro beat Zod. I think these two match ups may be even at the highest level. I only complain Martian Manhunter, who beats Zod at least 7:3.

Aqua could be 4-6 or 5-5

You go 5-20 vs cowboy and I get blown out again now too

Your MU #s are those MUs are clouded heavily

 

[Cossner]

This whole thing was silly.

1) Lex is absurd.
2) Lex lacks the tools to deal with certain match ups. Zod is an extreme case.
3) Tournament matches are hardly an indicative of how good or bad a match up is.
4) Saying 9-1s or 8-2s are unwinnable is stupid. Otherwise it would be 10-0. Hurr
5) Tom Jesus just stop. No one is blowing you up for anything, you have been saying the same thing for years.

 

[EdFig81]

Seems good so far still listening

 

[Phosferrax]

Dave is one of the biggest 'cry babies' on TYM, so how can he have a podcast berating others for the same?

 

[TemperingMoon]

@rev0lver why even waste energy explaining yourself to someone who is less than irrelevent . M2Dave has not gotten top 8s , he has not discovered any zod tech and has spread unimaginable amounts of propaganda about DS and his low guns. Also people should remember that this is the same guy who got Scorpion nerfed because aparantly he broke the rules of the game , yet Zod not even letting several characters play the game is completely fine.

 

[STRYKIE]

As much as Dave and Tom don't seem to comprehend that it's a "systematically" unwinnable matchup, and that Rev0lver only managed to get shit going because Relaxed State wasn't executing IAFBs properly, I will say this much...

If there is some "poor Rev" sob story going around (didn't read the thread where he got props for taking that round over Relaxed), then yeah, let's not milk it, acknowledge that it is what it is and move on. If I was a Zod main, I'd have no qualms about telling anybody, no matter how much I like them in and outside of the FGC; "Don't come at me with a notoriously problematic character and tell me it's my fault". If there comes other characters that literally can't do a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g about specific repetitions of IAZBs, fair play, but that's not the case as things stand.

On the contrary, Dave's counter thread was about Zod winning in a 2-8 matchup or whatever was equally unnecessary. On top of the fact that he's already known for milking matchups/characters with anti-zoning tools coming into play lol.

 

[Tom Brady]

As much as Dave and Tom don't seem to comprehend that it's a "systematically" unwinnable matchup, and that Rev0lver only managed to get shit going because Relaxed State wasn't executing IAFBs properly, I will say this much...

If there is some "poor Rev" sob story going around (didn't read the thread where he got props for taking that round over Relaxed), then yeah, let's not milk it, acknowledge that it is what it is and move on. If I was a Zod main, I'd have no qualms about telling anybody, no matter how much I like them in and outside of the FGC; "Don't come at me with a notoriously problematic character and tell me it's my fault". If there comes other characters that literally can't do a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g about specific repetitions of IAZBs, fair play, but that's not the case as things stand.

On the contrary, Dave's counter thread was about Zod winning in a 2-8 matchup or whatever was equally unnecessary. On top of the fact that he's already known for milking matchups/characters with anti-zoning tools coming into play lol.

Dude.. i said the mu was unwinnable. I dont know why ppl are saying I feel lex can win it.

 

[M2Dave]

Aqua could be 4-6 or 5-5

You go 5-20 vs cowboy and I get blown out again now too

Your MU #s are those MUs are clouded heavily

No. You get blown up. I get blown up sometimes. I lost 10:6 to Cowboy the last Zod versus Sinestro series. I lost about 30:15 in Vegas. The match up is difficult but manageable. I should be winning many more games but probably never will unless I purchase a hitbox.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm starting to think this is more daves influencing than Tom since he admitted from the start he didn't know enough about it, but otherwise this post nailed it. Dave calls mmh unwinnable when everyone else on both sides says it's not that bad. I call this practically unwinnable and everyone pretty much agrees with me except for Dave lol.

Lol yea man I think it's the "way" the MU is 1-9 is what makes it worse. A guy like Relaxed is a great player and one of my fav posters, and he did what I would do if I had the skill in this game to pull it off. But on the flip side the "way" it looks makes the MU look so silly. Lex just walking forward inch by inch pointlessly lol. The MU is literally "hopefully I can hit him within the first 2.3 seconds, stay on him 100%, and hopefully he plays flawed and doesn't push me back one time or its over". Perfect or near perfect executing Zod = go home Lex. There aren't too many MU's in fighting games in general as bad as this one.

I find this ironic because I'm one of the few people that have agreed with Dave on a few of his points, mainly many of his zoning perspectives in the past and present, but this isn't one of those times. I honestly think he's just wild salty that you received a lot of props for your performance(s) and he looked around like "but hey why doesn't anyone sympathize with my MMH MU or when I fought a 0-10 MU against Smoke for years???". He fails to understand that it isn't the same scenario and that's why he's attacked for certain statements in regards to the characters he complains.

Then enters Brady. No one told him to involve himself making just as bad comments because he wants a pat on the back for playing Sub in MK9, against in HIS words, "unwinnable" MUs against Kenshi, Kitana, Cyrax, Kabal, etc (because apparently he had more than 4 "unwinnable" MUs). Again, there's a difference between tough, extremely hard, and "unwinnable" MU's. "Unwinnable" is being thrown around too loosely these days. I've never heard Tom talk about how many "unwinnable" MU's are in Aquaman's favor. Not. One. Time.


From random nobody poster all the way up to Evo level competitor. If you talk foolishness expect to be blown up, and rightfully so.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

No. You get blown up. I get blown up sometimes. I lost 10:6 to Cowboy the last Zod versus Sinestro series. I lost about 30:15 in Vegas. The match up is difficult but manageable. I should be winning many more games but probably never will unless I purchase a hitbox.

Vegas I was doing the same - took four months off. Try beating Shaazzyam first before saying MMH is 2-8

 

[Shaazzyam]

Ya, @Relaxedstate and @General M2Dave stop getting scrubbed out by me, scrubber duckies.