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Match-up Discussion SonicFox's Batgirl Matchup Chart (WITH DESCRIPTION!)

Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Pan1cMode said:
To be honest, this isn't that different from my MU chart. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Even with those MU numbers this doesn't make her the best character in the game by sheer MU tabulation alone. MMH, Zod and SM would still have an overall better tally than her.

Obviously the ones I disagree with are:
- Aquaman
- Bane
- Doomsday
- Cyborg (willing to concede this one, could potentially be 7-3)
- NW (Also willing to concede this because her other 5-5s are harder than NW)

Besides those we have the same numbers. Either way I'm only 1 point off agreement with you in all the listed MUs.

I disagree with the AM and DD numbers because she relies on the opponent making a mistake in order for her to get her game started. It's not a matter of making a great read to get started, but the opponent actually physically making a mistake. The tools these characters have to keep BG out mean she has to capitalise on the opponents mistakes rather than simply making great reads. If the opponent plays perfectly (spacing wise, not read wise) it is impossible to win these MUs. That's why I don't think they're in her advantage. I also think you give cartwheel waaaaay too much credit as a move. All 3 options are full combo punishable. It's not a move you can or should simply chuck out. The fact that you're not getting punished for it doesn't make it any more safe.

I disagree with the Bane number as well but that's whatever.
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superman??? what is this january??
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
I disagree with her being the best in the game. I think 3rd is appropriate behind AQ and MMH. I'm assuming however you come to that conclusion via MU charts?
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Peckapowa said:
Well her normal mixup syou can react to... and in input reversal you can with practice block pretty welll... I think technically you don't get better than batgirl.
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You must gave fast reactions to react to instant crossups and 50/50 crossups then...

Day 1 Zatanna is overhead/low.
 
Laos_boy

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
.
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
Bg vs zatanna 6-4? Nope. 5-5 or zat favor. Bg Tele get punished, bola gets punished during start up, dashes get punished, Bg cartwheels mean nothing on wake up. Only thing u do have is vortex, and that's just a guess. that is all. Zatanna doesn't need to zone to be effective, she needs to be annoying.
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I don't know man. I hate this MU. I think itsher toughest 6-4 sure you can bait tele. But a good BG iisn't just gonna teleport like crazy. Of course both vortexes come into play. And batgirl is meterless. While zatanna can't zone to get back meter to get her resets going. Batgirl also out footsies her somewhat. Maybe I'm just bad in the Match. @deg222 thoughts?
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
Bg vs zatanna 6-4? Nope. 5-5 or zat favor. Bg Tele get punished, bola gets punished during start up, dashes get punished, Bg cartwheels mean nothing on wake up. Only thing u do have is vortex, and that's just a guess. that is all. Zatanna doesn't need to zone to be effective, she needs to be annoying.
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No way man, punishing tele isn't a mu specific thing, bola doesn't get punished on start-up as you can't react to it and trance it; it's a read. Dash getting punished isn't specific either, and you'll have to explain the cartwheel on wake up thing.

Zatanna gets out-footsies, Batgirl can jump at her all day, Batgirl doesn't need meter to zortex but Zat does, and if she's not really zoning how is she going to get it? Teleport back all day and corner herself with Batgirls bullshit corner damage? No way is it in Zat's favour.

Batgirl has a better dash, better jump attacks and better range than Zat, with meterless vortex which is important in this MU.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Rip Torn said:
If AM blocks j2, he doesn't have to backdash, he can just d1 and he gets out of the 50/50 for free. About 90% of the cast can do that. I don't know why more people don't check Batgirl after j2.
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As Sonic said, at the lowest height j2 is +10 so besides blocking, backdashing is his best option there.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Youphemism said:
As Sonic said, at the lowest height j2 is +10 so besides blocking, backdashing is his best option there.
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The lowest height is irrelevant because AM will d2 you long before that hits. You can try and catch d2s with tele, but if they do it at the last possible second, you can't even make it whiff.


J3 on the other hand is at least +20 when you hit from a regular height, but it's much slower.

Phosferrax said:
?
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Zatanna vortex is crazy. That's what he's saying. Also, background bounce means meterless vortex so there's that I guess.
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Pan1cMode said:
The lowest height is irrelevant because AM will d2 you long before that hits. You can try and catch d2s with tele, but if they do it at the last possible second, you can't even make it whiff.


J3 on the other hand is at least +20 when you hit from a regular height, but it's much slower.


Zatanna vortex is crazy. That's what he's saying. Also, background bounce means meterless vortex so there's that I guess.
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see thats where the mixup game comes in. I could deep jump teleport and he could D2 and get full combo punished. He cannot D2 you in one frame lol. And again its reading your opponent. You dont always have to use vortex. You guys make it sound like thats whats making her vital xD. Go look at my matches against KDZ at summer Jam. He kept backdashing and look what happened.
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
STB Shujinkydink said:
I disagree with her being the best in the game. I think 3rd is appropriate behind AQ and MMH. I'm assuming however you come to that conclusion via MU charts?
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see heres the tough thing lol. MMH and Aquaman have more BS than her, bu they have bad MUS lol. BG however has none, and can kill anybody instantly unlike MMH and Aquaman, (unless MMH finds like 3 interactables LOL GG)
 
C88 Zombieekiler

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
Bg vs zatanna 6-4? Nope. 5-5 or zat favor. Bg Tele get punished, bola gets punished during start up, dashes get punished, Bg cartwheels mean nothing on wake up. Only thing u do have is vortex, and that's just a guess. that is all. Zatanna doesn't need to zone to be effective, she needs to be annoying.
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you dont even play breh
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Pan1cMode said:
Zatanna vortex is crazy. That's what he's saying. Also, background bounce means meterless vortex so there's that I guess.
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Her vortex is, but at the end of it, it's still a guess, just like Batgirls. The complexity (or swag) doesn't really matter.
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
SonicFox5000 said:
see heres the tough thing lol. MMH and Aquaman have more BS than her, bu they have bad MUS lol. BG however has none, and can kill anybody instantly unlike MMH and Aquaman, (unless MMH finds like 3 interactables LOL GG)
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So MMH and AQ have a shit ton of 7-3s with both having only one bad mu(maybe more for Aquaman but I doubt it). Do you think batgirls more even chart outweighs that?

Not trying to be difficult just trying to understand and get on the same page lol
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
STB Shujinkydink said:
So MMH and AQ have a shit ton of 7-3s with both having only one bad mu(maybe more for Aquaman but I doubt it). Do you think batgirls more even chart outweighs that?

Not trying to be difficult just trying to understand and get on the same page lol
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Its hard to tell lol. I just feel due to her tools while not as broken, allows her to take on the whole cast.
 
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